People keep targeting the wrong Philly big.

[Csfan1984]

I wouldn't touch a deal for Noel if it costed team the 3rd pick. I like the idea of Rozier, 16 and 31 for Noel. Rozier looks like he might be a good PG for the future and 16 should net another decent player say Korkmaz or Valentine.
Rozier, Korkmaz, Saric, Simmons, Okafor looks promising.

I agree that #3 is an overpay for Noel, in fact part because he's an RCA next year.

What if we proposed #3 for Noel and the Lakers pick. Top 3 protected next year but in a deep draft class

Think adding that Lakers pick and trading the 3rd would just end up being a mistake for one of the teams. It's better to leave that out of things. We want both teams to win. So maybe thrown in pick 45 too. It's too much a gamble for both sides.

[jambr380]

Before the year began, I would have said yes, but Noel now only has one more year before he gets a humongous contract. I would rather just sign Biyombo for similar money (to what he will get) this year or wait until next offseason to sign Noel.

If the deal is centered around later non-BKN or MEM picks, then I could get myself excited about it.

[dreamgreen]

I like Noel and Okafor but what you give up for the one of them is not the same. I'd do #3 for Okafor if Ingram is off the board. He would be a big upgrade over fat albert. Noel on the other hand I'd give up the rest of our picks for but we keep #3.

[The One]

Celtics need, in no particular order:

Interior defense
3 pt shooting
Half court offense

Noel would help the interior defense.  Okafor would help half court offense.

I think taking all known factors into account, I would go for Okafor.

I'm hoping that interior defense and 3pt shooting can be added via FA or trades.

[TheSundanceKid]

Celtics need, in no particular order:

Interior defense
3 pt shooting
Half court offense

Noel would help the interior defense.  Okafor would help half court offense.

I think taking all known factors into account, I would go for Okafor.

I'm hoping that interior defense and 3pt shooting can be added via FA or trades.

I would argue we need 3 point shooting before interior defence. Even with the lack of such in our bigs we had one of the best defences. It's not broken, it's a nice to have. Offensively we are broken. We need better 3 point shooting as THE priority.

I'd argue half court offense is 2nd as well. For similar reasons but also because we have few shot creators on the team. Goes hand in hand with the 3 point shooting though

[timpiker]

I want a C that stays in the paint.  Okafor has the body to bang with the bigs and the skills to score inside 15 ft.

[BDeCosta26]

No offense, but almost  any deal for Noel disgusts me. Especially when we include valuable assets. The guy doesn't move the needle whatsoever. He can't score. We need offense. And our defense is perfectly fine. 4th in the league with Isaiah,  sully,  and kelly playing big minutes.

Honestly, what good did our defense do us in the Atlanta series? Did it matter that much? We couldn't score, and we lost the series because of it. I'd much rather trade for Okafor than Noel.

Why? Noel is a spectacular defensive player, who's in his early 20's and could anchor out defense for years to come on top of being versatile enough to fit into our system of switching everything. He's the perfect Amir replacement for the future, a guy who you could put the right players around and be dominant defensively with.

Sure, we struggled for offense against Atlanta, but that's what happens when your injured and no one makes any shots. In both those deals we get a guy like Barton or Covington who can make shots. I know we were the 4th defense by some ratings, but with a guy as versatile and elite defensively as Noel, we could be special. With the right move or two (Love, Georger, Butler, etc), we could easily be right there without losing much of our core.

See the problem with Okafor is that yeah, he provides offense but that offense come at a price. Okafor is at his best when he's taking a guy 1 on 1 in the post. He's elite at this skill. So good that he's been seeing double teams since his first game in the league. But, because of his average-at-best passing skills, Okafor consistently takes on the double team looking to score instead of finding the open man. He even scores a lot of the time. But it's starting to look like he's never going to be the kind of guy (ala Greg Monroe, Marc Gasol) who can run an entire offense through the high/low post.

When your as poor defensively as Okafor is (I seriously doubt he'll ever be able to switch onto any 4's in this league), you really need to get the pay out of his offensive game to justify giving him heavy minutes, so your forced to run a whole lot of ISO post ups where Okafor tries to take it to a guy or two in the paint. Thus, your taking the ball out of IT's hands, and limiting his effectiveness, same with Crowder, Bradley, etc.

We can get more/better shooting. But trading for Okafor would change the entire dynamic of this team on both sides of the ball, unless your gonna move him in the next year for something better, I wouldn't give up the 3rd pick for him

I wouldn't wanna give it up for Noel and I don't think DA would either. Were in a position to overpay, but that's why I suggested trading back to 7 and gaining an addition asset like Barton who could help now and is on a great deal. Heck maybe Danny could get then to take #7, 23 and Young or something. I'm just saying, Noel is a fantastic defending big, and he could fit into what were doing here a lot easier than Okafor

[Big333223]

Noel can't stretch the floor but I think his size and athleticism would give the offense a dynamic it didn't have this season as a more potent pick and roll finisher. I also think he takes the defense from #4 to #1 if he could be had without giving up a core piece.

I'd love to throw a package of #16, #23, #35, Terry Rozier, and James Young and see if Philly bites on that for a player who is likely to have trouble finding time in their lineup.

[Who]

I couldn't agree more. Noel > J.Okafor.

[jpotter33]

I agree, I'd much rather have Noel than Okafor. That being said, I'm also hesitant to give up the number three pick for him. If we could trade down to a spot before number 8 where most mocks have Dunn going, what kind of valuable asset could we pick up in the process while getting a lower pick to trade for Noel?

If Ingram or Simmons would drop to three, though, I'd rather have them and try a Smart for Noel framework trade after the draft. Ultimately, though, I think this is all just conjecture at this point, because for some reason they still want to hold onto him, even though they're "optimistic" about Embiid. 

[TheSundanceKid]

The thing people need to remember is that Noel can play alongside Embiid whereas Okafor can't. So that affects availability.

Okafor also has longer on his rookie contract so is worth more in that respect.

Also do not be afraid to go against the grain a bit. At the moment the league is swinging toward 5s who can switch onto perimeter guys which is making them more in the mould of WCS or Noel. But guaranteed Okafor would punish them on the offensive end. Having Okafor on a contender in 3-4 years could be devastating to the rest of the league

[The One]

No offense, but almost  any deal for Noel disgusts me. Especially when we include valuable assets. The guy doesn't move the needle whatsoever. He can't score. We need offense. And our defense is perfectly fine. 4th in the league with Isaiah,  sully,  and kelly playing big minutes.

Honestly, what good did our defense do us in the Atlanta series? Did it matter that much? We couldn't score, and we lost the series because of it. I'd much rather trade for Okafor than Noel.

Why? Noel is a spectacular defensive player, who's in his early 20's and could anchor out defense for years to come on top of being versatile enough to fit into our system of switching everything. He's the perfect Amir replacement for the future, a guy who you could put the right players around and be dominant defensively with.

Sure, we struggled for offense against Atlanta, but that's what happens when your injured and no one makes any shots. In both those deals we get a guy like Barton or Covington who can make shots. I know we were the 4th defense by some ratings, but with a guy as versatile and elite defensively as Noel, we could be special. With the right move or two (Love, Georger, Butler, etc), we could easily be right there without losing much of our core.

See the problem with Okafor is that yeah, he provides offense but that offense come at a price. Okafor is at his best when he's taking a guy 1 on 1 in the post. He's elite at this skill. So good that he's been seeing double teams since his first game in the league. But, because of his average-at-best passing skills, Okafor consistently takes on the double team looking to score instead of finding the open man. He even scores a lot of the time. But it's starting to look like he's never going to be the kind of guy (ala Greg Monroe, Marc Gasol) who can run an entire offense through the high/low post.

When your as poor defensively as Okafor is (I seriously doubt he'll ever be able to switch onto any 4's in this league), you really need to get the pay out of his offensive game to justify giving him heavy minutes, so your forced to run a whole lot of ISO post ups where Okafor tries to take it to a guy or two in the paint. Thus, your taking the ball out of IT's hands, and limiting his effectiveness, same with Crowder, Bradley, etc.

We can get more/better shooting. But trading for Okafor would change the entire dynamic of this team on both sides of the ball, unless your gonna move him in the next year for something better, I wouldn't give up the 3rd pick for him

I wouldn't wanna give it up for Noel and I don't think DA would either. Were in a position to overpay, but that's why I suggested trading back to 7 and gaining an addition asset like Barton who could help now and is on a great deal. Heck maybe Danny could get then to take #7, 23 and Young or something. I'm just saying, Noel is a fantastic defending big, and he could fit into what were doing here a lot easier than Okafor

Good points.

Noel is flawed offensively.

Okafor is flawed defensively.

Which one is easier to mask?

If Okafor does come though it won't be franchise crippling...as long as it's not a severe overpay.

[JBcat]

I agree, I'd much rather have Noel than Okafor. That being said, I'm also hesitant to give up the number three pick for him. If we could trade down to a spot before number 8 where most mocks have Dunn going, what kind of valuable asset could we pick up in the process while getting a lower pick to trade for Noel?

If Ingram or Simmons would drop to three, though, I'd rather have them and try a Smart for Noel framework trade after the draft. Ultimately, though, I think this is all just conjecture at this point, because for some reason they still want to hold onto him, even though they're "optimistic" about Embiid. 

Maybe trade down to 7 with Denver (while also picking up Gallo and giving up lesser assets if needed). Then maybe flip the 7th pick for Noel.

[jpotter33]

I agree, I'd much rather have Noel than Okafor. That being said, I'm also hesitant to give up the number three pick for him. If we could trade down to a spot before number 8 where most mocks have Dunn going, what kind of valuable asset could we pick up in the process while getting a lower pick to trade for Noel?

If Ingram or Simmons would drop to three, though, I'd rather have them and try a Smart for Noel framework trade after the draft. Ultimately, though, I think this is all just conjecture at this point, because for some reason they still want to hold onto him, even though they're "optimistic" about Embiid. 

Maybe trade down to 7 with Denver (while also picking up Gallo and giving up lesser assets if needed). Then maybe flip the 7th pick for Noel.

I'd like that deal with Gallo playing the small-ball 4. That helps with shooting, scoring, and interior defense, which are all issues we had last year. TP. Though I'm not sure if they'd be willing to give up Gallo (or the Sixers willing to give up Noel).

[PhoSita]

Noel is a role player.  I wouldn't give up a top 3 pick to get him.

I also doubt that Philly is looking to trade him while Embiid's long term prognosis is still in question.