Author Topic: People keep targeting the wrong Philly big.  (Read 11413 times)

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People keep targeting the wrong Philly big.
« on: May 27, 2016, 02:36:03 AM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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It seems like every day I open CB, I see at least two or three threads based around trading the BRK pick for Okafor. I've voiced my opposition to such a proposal, because I believe Okafor is too flawed of a player, and his flaws aren't really things players improve upon with age. For example, he's never going to be a plus defender, especially in the current NBA where the best defenders can switch 2-4 positions. Okafor will always have a hard time defending anyone who can score outside the paint. But I digress.

People seem to have come to the conclusion that Okafor is attainable, because Philly has 3 blue chip prospects who all play the same position and who really don't fit together at all. By that logic, Noel and Embiid should be up for discussion too. I think the Colangelo's aren't looking to make some huge splash to put them in the playoff conversation or anything, but they are looking to build something that resembles a "core". A group of guys you could see growing together into something. You can't have that with 3 centers and a PF (Simmons). That's where we come in.

I think we've got this all wrong, if were looking to trade for a Philly big, to me the target should be Noel. The Celtics developed into one of the leagues strongest defensive team's last season thanks to their lock-down perimeter defense. Now, the presence of Amir allows that group to develop into the defense they were just by being adequate at protecting the rim and battling down low, which is something we didn't have before him. Then Just plug Noel, a super-versatile modern 5 who can protect the rim, rebound at a high level, defend down low and on the perimeter, and would be as good as Amir on Offense, with the potential to be much better. Noel is very good at getting easy put- backs, short jump hooks and easy dunks.

The biggest difference in real terms between Okafor and Noel is that Noel is coming up on an extension next year, and RFA. Thus, it's harder to justify trading a very valuable asset for him, and that's a totally valid point. I for one think that Noel, a MA native, would sign a reasonable deal with us long term should he be traded here and succeed in a role like Amir's. Still, I have a hard time a walking away from the third pick in the draft for a guy with one more year on his contract, even of he's still got RFA. If Ainge was willing to do it (and maybe, if he's unimpressed with his choices, he will be) I think Philly would have to take #3 straight up for Noel, if only because they NEED to trade one of their Centers and having #1 and #3 this year could really allow them to establish a core identity, the thing they lack the most.

But I think Ainge wouldn't want to give up #3 for a guy like Noel with one year left on his rookie deal. Maybe he'd try to make them add something else valuable to the trade like Bob Covington (the only non-blue chip legit player), and he could include an extra pick or two (maybe 23, 31 or 35), or one of the kids (Hunter/Young), just to make the trade more mutually beneficial. The Sixers need to start building an actual legit roster, even if it's half rookies. We need to consolidate assets. PHI could use #1 on Simmons, 3 on Dunn, get someone at 23 and pick up a promising sophomore SG in Hunter. We could use a 22-odd year old local boy centre who could anchor an elite defense for years to come, a young Swing (3/4), solid 3&D guy in Covington who could spell Crowder and hit shots, and we consolidate some of our assets.

Or better yet, we could trade back a few spots should some team fall in love with a guy at #3 like Bender, Dunn or Hield. Maybe we could trade back to 7 with Denver, swap out a guy like Young or Hunter for an extra asset like Will Barton, even if it took an early 2nd to get done, and trade #7, #16 and the other of Hunter/Young for Noel. I'd be good with that. Still plenty of room to grow, and time to shape out the roster. Let's just say we to into next year with

PG: Thomas/Smart/Rozier
SG: Bradley/Smart/Barton/Rozier
SF: Crowder/Barton/Jerebko/Smart
PF: Olynyk/Jerebko/Crowder/Mickey
C: Noel/Amir/Olynyk/Mickey

There's still plenty of space to fill out that rotation with FA signing (Nik Batum, Horford?) and our other draft picks (Thon Maker, Valentine?$), and if that's the direction out summer went, I could be happy. We'd have a defensive juggernaut who would probably win 50-55 games and still be walking into a crapload of assets next summer to work with, plus an addition core piece in Noel.

Re: People keep targeting the wrong Philly big.
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2016, 02:48:11 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I wouldn't touch a deal for Noel if it costed team the 3rd pick. I like the idea of Rozier, 16 and 31 for Noel. Rozier looks like he might be a good PG for the future and 16 should net another decent player say Korkmaz or Valentine.
Rozier, Korkmaz, Saric, Simmons, Okafor looks promising.

Re: People keep targeting the wrong Philly big.
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2016, 02:51:59 AM »

Offline alldaboston

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No offense, but almost  any deal for Noel disgusts me. Especially when we include valuable assets. The guy doesn't move the needle whatsoever. He can't score. We need offense. And our defense is perfectly fine. 4th in the league with Isaiah,  sully,  and kelly playing big minutes.

Honestly, what good did our defense do us in the Atlanta series? Did it matter that much? We couldn't score, and we lost the series because of it. I'd much rather trade for Okafor than Noel.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: People keep targeting the wrong Philly big.
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2016, 03:27:33 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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No offense, but almost  any deal for Noel disgusts me. Especially when we include valuable assets. The guy doesn't move the needle whatsoever. He can't score. We need offense. And our defense is perfectly fine. 4th in the league with Isaiah,  sully,  and kelly playing big minutes.

Honestly, what good did our defense do us in the Atlanta series? Did it matter that much? We couldn't score, and we lost the series because of it. I'd much rather trade for Okafor than Noel.

At least Noel is a plus impact player one end of the court.  Okafor is a liability on offense and an even bigger liability on defence.  Noel only sucks on one end of the court.

Re: People keep targeting the wrong Philly big.
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2016, 03:28:55 AM »

Offline chambers

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Noel is a good defensive player for his age/experience. Could be really good..but this team needs inside scoring and Okafor provides that.

I certainly wouldn't be giving up the 3rd pick for Noel.
Perhaps a young player and the Mavs pick or something but not much else.

But yeah, I prefer Okafor much more than Noel as a potential staple for this team.
Good topic to discuss though.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: People keep targeting the wrong Philly big.
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2016, 03:35:58 AM »

Offline alldaboston

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No offense, but almost  any deal for Noel disgusts me. Especially when we include valuable assets. The guy doesn't move the needle whatsoever. He can't score. We need offense. And our defense is perfectly fine. 4th in the league with Isaiah,  sully,  and kelly playing big minutes.

Honestly, what good did our defense do us in the Atlanta series? Did it matter that much? We couldn't score, and we lost the series because of it. I'd much rather trade for Okafor than Noel.

At least Noel is a plus impact player one end of the court.  Okafor is a liability on offense and an even bigger liability on defence.  Noel only sucks on one end of the court.

Well, I used to be on the Okafor hype train, but I've since halted on that. Maybe I prefer just using the pick? Idk my intentions at this point lol.

But.. if we had to trade for either of the 2 of these guys, I'd still rather go for okafor. I remain hopeful that he can be less a liability with coach Brad. He's very talented, and I'm sure Brad could put him to good use in a way that wouldn't be harmful to our success either.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: People keep targeting the wrong Philly big.
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2016, 03:59:46 AM »

Offline LGC88

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No offense, but almost  any deal for Noel disgusts me. Especially when we include valuable assets. The guy doesn't move the needle whatsoever. He can't score. We need offense. And our defense is perfectly fine. 4th in the league with Isaiah,  sully,  and kelly playing big minutes.

Honestly, what good did our defense do us in the Atlanta series? Did it matter that much? We couldn't score, and we lost the series because of it. I'd much rather trade for Okafor than Noel.

We haven't watched the same Atlanta series.
Boston couldn't score because 3 of our best shooters where injured or haven't recovered.
Our offense were fine the entire season and should have been if we have stayed healthy.
Okafor is NOT Duncan and will never be, too many flaws.
I prefer Noel as well, more complete player. He can improve offensively.

Re: People keep targeting the wrong Philly big.
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2016, 04:01:17 AM »

Offline BornReady

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People are targeting Okafor because he seems like the odd one out of what the 76ers are going for
They want a run and gun kind of style of play
While Okafor is just a traditional post up C

Re: People keep targeting the wrong Philly big.
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2016, 04:28:28 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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I wouldn't touch a deal for Noel if it costed team the 3rd pick. I like the idea of Rozier, 16 and 31 for Noel. Rozier looks like he might be a good PG for the future and 16 should net another decent player say Korkmaz or Valentine.
Rozier, Korkmaz, Saric, Simmons, Okafor looks promising.

I agree that #3 is an overpay for Noel, in fact part because he's an RCA next year.

What if we proposed #3 for Noel and the Lakers pick. Top 3 protected next year but in a deep draft class

Re: People keep targeting the wrong Philly big.
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2016, 04:56:44 AM »

Offline mr. dee

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No offense, but almost  any deal for Noel disgusts me. Especially when we include valuable assets. The guy doesn't move the needle whatsoever. He can't score. We need offense. And our defense is perfectly fine. 4th in the league with Isaiah,  sully,  and kelly playing big minutes.

Honestly, what good did our defense do us in the Atlanta series? Did it matter that much? We couldn't score, and we lost the series because of it. I'd much rather trade for Okafor than Noel.

To be fair, we got killed inside the paint. Smart had a harder time due to the absence of AB. The lack of legit interior presence caused the guards to overhelp inside and failed to closeout threes.

Re: People keep targeting the wrong Philly big.
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2016, 05:53:32 AM »

Offline 2short

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I like Noel on this team.  A young shot blocking, rebounding athletic guy.  He'd be our fifth option on offense.  Not like we need his offensive presence on low block.  I'm for getting him but think we can get him more reasonably than a #3 pick

Re: People keep targeting the wrong Philly big.
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2016, 05:58:08 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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I like Noel on this team.  A young shot blocking, rebounding athletic guy.  He'd be our fifth option on offense.  Not like we need his offensive presence on low block.  I'm for getting him but think we can get him more reasonably than a #3 pick

He'd essentially be a younger, more athletic Amir

Re: People keep targeting the wrong Philly big.
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2016, 06:32:47 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I like Noel too.   We need an active young guy ,  Mickey is about three inches short .

Mickey and Noel would,be fun cleaning the boards.

Re: People keep targeting the wrong Philly big.
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2016, 07:16:01 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Teams do not just give away guys they do not like.   Okafor is a malcontent, hence, he is available.   Noel is not and is mostly likely not on the market.

Re: People keep targeting the wrong Philly big.
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2016, 07:24:43 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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Pass. Noel hasn't improved a lick offensively and is about to get badly overpaid despite all his limitations. I'll stick with the 3rd pick and the rookie scale contract that player will have.