It's just that offense wins basketball games

[BitterJim]

It's funny that you started this thread while the winningest regular-season team in NBA history is losing 3-1 in the WCF, primarily because of their opposition's length and athleticism on defense and ability to stop the infamous Curry-Green pick-and-roll.

Well that's really interesting.

So we just had AB get first team defense and Crowder just barely missed 2nd team, and I don't care what the votes say...Smart is the best defender I have ever seen when he isn't being gimmicky weird.

But there is no way on Earth the Thunder trade Durant for all of those guys.

If you are the Thunder and you are forced to trade Westbrook or Durant for one Celtic you are taking Isaiah Thomas. And he is nowhere near the defender these guys are.

This is just a ridiculous statement.  They wouldn't do the trade because Durant is an MVP candidate and the other three are just starters

It's like saying "No way the someone would trade Ingram for Kris Dunn, offense must be way more important than defense".  That's not what the issue is, it's just that one player is way more talented

I'm sure the Spurs wouldn't trade Leonard for IT, but that doesn't mean that defense is more important than offense.  They're just on different levels as players

[LooseCannon]

Trade Stevens for D'Antoni?

[Eja117]

It's funny that you started this thread while the winningest regular-season team in NBA history is losing 3-1 in the WCF, primarily because of their opposition's length and athleticism on defense and ability to stop the infamous Curry-Green pick-and-roll.

Well that's really interesting.

So we just had AB get first team defense and Crowder just barely missed 2nd team, and I don't care what the votes say...Smart is the best defender I have ever seen when he isn't being gimmicky weird.

But there is no way on Earth the Thunder trade Durant for all of those guys.

If you are the Thunder and you are forced to trade Westbrook or Durant for one Celtic you are taking Isaiah Thomas. And he is nowhere near the defender these guys are.

This is just a ridiculous statement.  They wouldn't do the trade because Durant is an MVP candidate and the other three are just starters

It's like saying "No way the someone would trade Ingram for Kris Dunn, offense must be way more important than defense".  That's not what the issue is, it's just that one player is way more talented

I'm sure the Spurs wouldn't trade Leonard for IT, but that doesn't mean that defense is more important than offense.  They're just on different levels as players

But wait. These guys are the absolute best defenders. Let's take a very good offensive player who plays no defense whatsoever....Harden. Do the Rockets even consider for a second trading Harden for any two of those guys?

[Eja117]

Whenever Smart shoots an air ball a lot of that stellar defense and hustle goes down the drain

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

Which is why the Sacramento Kings are sweeping away all before them enough route to a Champ...Oh wait

[GetLucky]

It's funny that you started this thread while the winningest regular-season team in NBA history is losing 3-1 in the WCF, primarily because of their opposition's length and athleticism on defense and ability to stop the infamous Curry-Green pick-and-roll.

Well that's really interesting.

So we just had AB get first team defense and Crowder just barely missed 2nd team, and I don't care what the votes say...Smart is the best defender I have ever seen when he isn't being gimmicky weird.

But there is no way on Earth the Thunder trade Durant for all of those guys.

If you are the Thunder and you are forced to trade Westbrook or Durant for one Celtic you are taking Isaiah Thomas. And he is nowhere near the defender these guys are.

Ignoring the chirp, you are both right and wrong, and I respectfully disagree on the premise. All of the great teams can put points on the board like no others; think Thunder, Warriors, Spurs of past years (this year they slowed the pace and moved the ball slightly less), etc. Any team with LeBron on it has the potential to muscle its way to enough points.

The Celtics, as currently constructed, are not one of those top-tier teams. However, once you get to be one of those to-tier teams, championship-level success comes down to consistently stopping other all-world offenses and closing games out. Think the Thunder stymying the Warriors this year or the Warriors shutting down the Cavaliers last year. Heck, even think 1984 Celtics. The whole Finals series against the Lakers changed when McHale set the "no free fast breaks" tone with the clothesline. 

 The reasons that the Celtics are not top tier as well as common criticisms include, but are not limited to (in no particular order): 1) lack of a go-to guy 2) lack of a 'closer' that can put the team on his back and consistently win isolation match-ups 3) lack of a rim protector 4) lack of shooting.

The Celtics are neither an elite offensive or defensive team. You are right in recognizing that the Celtics have much bigger needs on the offensive end than the defensive, and certainly adding two or three of the "missing pieces" on offense would yield drastic and immediate results. A Harden or Durant type would almost certainly make the Celtics a top-tier team, with their structure and role players already in place. However, you cannot win a championship with one side of the ball, which makes also finding that missing defensive piece, hopefully a big man, all the more instrumental. Offense is certainly more pressing, though.

I equate the Celtics now to the defensive version of the Denver Nuggets from a few years ago. Above-averge on one end, average-to-below-average (for a playoff team) on the other end that overachieves and is never considered a true contender for the title, but with more assets and opportunities to improve.

[Greyman]

There is a strong argument that when the going gets tough in a finals series, having great defence wins games. To me Celtics history proves that. You have to have a balance though. No matter what era, great defence had to be backed up by scoring.

One of the great things about being a Celtics fan, and loving players like Russell and Garnet, is that you appreciate defence. It can sway you into thinking that if you have great defenders you can have less than great point scorers. It isn't true. You have to have balance.

[Big333223]

I don't think it's a good idea to try to value one thing over the other. Nobody wins a championship without being able to do both. Even those D'Antoni Suns teams that everyone used to harp on for being bad defenders, were actually average defensive teams. But being average never got them to the NBA Finals.

That said, I do think defense has more to do with effort and IQ than offense does. If you know where to be and are willing to outwork your opponent, most anyone in the NBA can become a good defender. Some guys, though, will never learn how to shoot. You can learn how to make intelligent cuts off the ball and you can work on your handle but you can't will yourself to have better hands or to be faster. I think there's a harder cap on offense than on defense where effort and work are concerned.

[Eja117]

Which is why the Sacramento Kings are sweeping away all before them enough route to a Champ...Oh wait

That has got to be the first time I have ever heard anyone suggest the Kings are some sort of offensive juggernaught.

[BitterJim]

It's funny that you started this thread while the winningest regular-season team in NBA history is losing 3-1 in the WCF, primarily because of their opposition's length and athleticism on defense and ability to stop the infamous Curry-Green pick-and-roll.

Well that's really interesting.

So we just had AB get first team defense and Crowder just barely missed 2nd team, and I don't care what the votes say...Smart is the best defender I have ever seen when he isn't being gimmicky weird.

But there is no way on Earth the Thunder trade Durant for all of those guys.

If you are the Thunder and you are forced to trade Westbrook or Durant for one Celtic you are taking Isaiah Thomas. And he is nowhere near the defender these guys are.

This is just a ridiculous statement.  They wouldn't do the trade because Durant is an MVP candidate and the other three are just starters

It's like saying "No way the someone would trade Ingram for Kris Dunn, offense must be way more important than defense".  That's not what the issue is, it's just that one player is way more talented

I'm sure the Spurs wouldn't trade Leonard for IT, but that doesn't mean that defense is more important than offense.  They're just on different levels as players

But wait. These guys are the absolute best defenders. Let's take a very good offensive player who plays no defense whatsoever....Harden. Do the Rockets even consider for a second trading Harden for any two of those guys?

No, but that doesn't have to do with defense vs. offense, it's again a matter of them being on different levels as players.

Kawhi Leonard is the best defensive player in the league, so would the Spurs trade him for Harden, since offense is way more important?  Of course not.

[LGC88]

What makes the difference is what they call it "better offense" when facing perfect defense.
That means scoring on bad shots, iso play and contested jumpers.
There are less than 10 players that can do that on the regular basis and that's what makes their respective team contenders (providing they are above average on defense).
If you look at DeRozan and Lowry, they are not "better offense", they are not consistant.
KD, Lebron, CP3, Curry, etc... those are the players that can shoot and score almost anytime they want with good efficiency.
That's the type of "offense" you need to win championship.
OKC always had this type of "better offense" but lack on defense or were unlucky with injuries.
This year what has changed is their defense. Look at those guys and how they cover the passing lanes and cover each other. With good rebounders they are able to score easily on transition. KD and Russel just do the rest.

[Eja117]

It's funny that you started this thread while the winningest regular-season team in NBA history is losing 3-1 in the WCF, primarily because of their opposition's length and athleticism on defense and ability to stop the infamous Curry-Green pick-and-roll.

Well that's really interesting.

So we just had AB get first team defense and Crowder just barely missed 2nd team, and I don't care what the votes say...Smart is the best defender I have ever seen when he isn't being gimmicky weird.

But there is no way on Earth the Thunder trade Durant for all of those guys.

If you are the Thunder and you are forced to trade Westbrook or Durant for one Celtic you are taking Isaiah Thomas. And he is nowhere near the defender these guys are.

This is just a ridiculous statement.  They wouldn't do the trade because Durant is an MVP candidate and the other three are just starters

It's like saying "No way the someone would trade Ingram for Kris Dunn, offense must be way more important than defense".  That's not what the issue is, it's just that one player is way more talented

I'm sure the Spurs wouldn't trade Leonard for IT, but that doesn't mean that defense is more important than offense.  They're just on different levels as players

But wait. These guys are the absolute best defenders. Let's take a very good offensive player who plays no defense whatsoever....Harden. Do the Rockets even consider for a second trading Harden for any two of those guys?

No, but that doesn't have to do with defense vs. offense, it's again a matter of them being on different levels as players.

Kawhi Leonard is the best defensive player in the league, so would the Spurs trade him for Harden, since offense is way more important?  Of course not.

Kawhi is a good offensive player though

[Fafnir]

NBA teams are now very good at punishing one dimensional players. You can't be a great player and not be at least passable on both ends of the court anymore. That's one of the reasons I really don't think Lillard/Harden/Irving are as good as they are billed. Just completely uninterested in even trying to fulfill their defensive assignments for most of the game.

You can still somewhat hide guards/wings defensively, though even that is hard now. But for forwards and bigs its become incredibly difficult.

[Chris22]

Whenever Smart shoots an air ball a lot of that stellar defense and hustle goes down the drain

Every time Smart shoot a three, an angel loses his wings.

[loco_91]

There are two ways to score more points than your opponent:
1. Score
2. Keep them from scoring.

Offense and defense are EQUALLY IMPORTANT.