Author Topic: It's just that offense wins basketball games  (Read 15259 times)

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It's just that offense wins basketball games
« on: May 26, 2016, 07:07:02 PM »

Offline Eja117

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and that's why we have to be careful not to overrate Marcus Smart (or anyone else for that matter).

You don't love Ben Simmons or Ingram because of their defense. Nor Buddy Heild nor Jamal Murray.

Nor Bird.

It's a nice bonus. But it's not what wins games. Curry isn't MVP because of his defense. Maybe it separates people.

But you take a guy like Harden with no defense whatsoever. I'd rather have Smart. Part of the reason is because Smart is way way cheaper.

But unfortunately, as much as I hate to admit it if you trade Harden straight up for AB or Smart next year we are instantly closer to a ring than if things stay like this.

Defense is wonderful. But offense wins games. There are rare exceptions, but usually even in those case defense is more of a tie breaker. You aren't usually really winning with defense. It's not like you're holding the other team to 70 points or something.

The 08 Celtics are a great example. Great defensive team. But if you reduce KG's offense by 10% and Ray Allen and Paul Pierces' by 15%, even if you increase their defense by 10% each or something you're not getting to the finals. You're not getting past the Hawks.

Big shots end more games than big blocks or steals. Maybe maybe maybe you could argue denying entry, getting a hand in the face, and boxing out ends more games. But that's why offensive players are more valuable.

So yes Marcus Smart is great. But him and Rozier for Lillard is a no brainer

Re: It's just that offense wins basketball games
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2016, 07:09:32 PM »

Offline walker834

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Totally agree.  Red's theory was to score points and then hold opponents to less then that even though he had one of the best team oriented defensive players of all time in Russell.

We don't want to be  phoenix here though.  They are primarily an offense first team historically.

Ainge is from oregon, came here, went to sacramento then phoenix and then came back.  Hopefully he gets it.

Re: It's just that offense wins basketball games
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2016, 07:10:34 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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It's funny that you started this thread while the winningest regular-season team in NBA history is losing 3-1 in the WCF, primarily because of their opposition's length and athleticism on defense and ability to stop the infamous Curry-Green pick-and-roll.

Re: It's just that offense wins basketball games
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2016, 07:12:38 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'd say offense is more important than defense, but you need more above average defenders on your team than above average scorers.

But you need at least a few really good offensive players.
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Re: It's just that offense wins basketball games
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2016, 07:12:40 PM »

Offline walker834

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To me it starts with defense and rebounding but you gotta score points.   The objective is to score more points than the other team but that starts with defense.  Maybe I have it backwards though lol. 


Re: It's just that offense wins basketball games
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2016, 07:15:44 PM »

Offline walker834

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We don't want to be NY and thugs like they had with Oakley and Mason who were underrated offensive players.  We had that with Perk in ways but I think we like our finesse and scoring.  We are primarily a hard nosed offensive team that plays great defense.

Re: It's just that offense wins basketball games
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2016, 07:31:36 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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fastbreak basketball starts on the defensive end.

Re: It's just that offense wins basketball games
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2016, 07:53:57 PM »

Offline walker834

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The best offense is great defense.  The best defense is great offense.  If you look at our team we scored a lot this year but held opponents down.  What I think we want is a combination of both.  Both our offense and defense could have been better.  Making baskets equals good defense and not allowing baskets equals good offense.

Basketball isn't rocket science.  The objective is to make more baskets than your opponent.  That involves stopping the other team from scoring and rebounding and putting your offense in the best position to score at a higher percentage at the other end.  Take more shots.  Make more 3's etc..  Rebounding all of t hat and the in between stuff plays a role in that.

Take more shots.  Make more shots at a higher percentage.  rebound, steals, loose balls all that.

Re: It's just that offense wins basketball games
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2016, 08:06:54 PM »

Offline chambers

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It's both.
Championship teams are always great defensive teams, because when they go cold, their defense keeps them in the game.

The Thunder are proving how important having tough defense is against one of the greatest offenses of all time. They are crushing the Warriors with their physical, suffocating defense.
They are scoring too, but they would not be in this series without their brutal D.
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Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: It's just that offense wins basketball games
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2016, 08:14:17 PM »

Offline walker834

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The way the game is now it was GS and their shooting.  Now its okc and their length and athleticism. 

Unless you have a post player like Love or Okafor or Howard thats just the way it is.  Those players are being  underutilized and are a non factor right now. 

The game is always changing though.  there's no set way. We can sit here and say we should add a guy like Simmons or Okafor or Ingram or Bender but it's always changing.

We could get a player like Love or Okafor on teh cheap and do well because we utilize that player correctly.  There's no way to know for sure. 

San Antonio was defense and big men and scrappy scorers.  There's no set way.

If there is one thing I can't stand it's when people think there is some set way or method.  That's instant death regardless of which side of that argument you are on as well or whatever hypocrisy you are spewing.  Unless it's marcus and a few other things  haha.  That's totally fine.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 08:22:29 PM by walker834 »

Re: It's just that offense wins basketball games
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2016, 08:19:20 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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See my handle. I can't disagree more.

Everyone can score in the NBA, but its the teams that make it hard for the other team to score than win championships.

People forget that the Warriors were a great defensive team last year and for 3/4 of this year. The Warriors are the Nash Suns without defense.

Re: It's just that offense wins basketball games
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2016, 08:24:33 PM »

Online Moranis

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Talent wins basketball games and to win championships you almost always need all time great talent.  In order to be an all time great you have to be a well rounded player.  now sure those players tend to be better offensive players than defensive players, but Jordan, Bird, Magic, Wilt, Shaq, Duncan, and even our own Bill Russell were great all around players on both ends of the floor.  That is why Lebron James has been to 5 straight NBA Finals and is one win away from a 6th. 
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Re: It's just that offense wins basketball games
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2016, 08:30:07 PM »

Offline mr. dee

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False. You need both in order to win it all. 04 Pistons gotta have the lowest PPG in any championship team in recent memory. Spurs were always a top defensive team, so was the Celtics. And even the teams like Heat, Mavs, Warriors and Lakers have defensive studs in their roster.

Re: It's just that offense wins basketball games
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2016, 08:59:43 PM »

Offline Eja117

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It's funny that you started this thread while the winningest regular-season team in NBA history is losing 3-1 in the WCF, primarily because of their opposition's length and athleticism on defense and ability to stop the infamous Curry-Green pick-and-roll.
Well that's really interesting.

So we just had AB get first team defense and Crowder just barely missed 2nd team, and I don't care what the votes say...Smart is the best defender I have ever seen when he isn't being gimmicky weird.

But there is no way on Earth the Thunder trade Durant for all of those guys.

If you are the Thunder and you are forced to trade Westbrook or Durant for one Celtic you are taking Isaiah Thomas. And he is nowhere near the defender these guys are.

Re: It's just that offense wins basketball games
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2016, 09:20:07 PM »

Offline walker834

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I think GS is just paying the pricing for playing they were all season.  They expended a lot of energy doing that. Curry's knee's hurt.  They've been sloppy with turnovers all year.  OKC is just more hungry right now and healthier more athetic team and they look like it.  Didn't have that record to live up to.

Durant isn't coming here either.  People need to get off that.  There is no one on this team we can trade for that guy.

If we were okc would you trade him for isaiah thomas?  If we had durant there is no way we trade him period.  OKC I'm sure feels the same way especially now.  KG was a totally different situation.

I think people are hyping up OKC's athleticism though.  Against cleveland it might not be like that.  Listening to Bill Simmons and not a fan of his but he's on the okc bandwagon.   A little early for that.  The fact he even said that means Cleveland is going to win.

We need talent right now.  Trading Marcus who is our most talented player doesn't solve that.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 09:30:36 PM by walker834 »