Buddy Heild has more to his game then just shooting 3's

[alldaboston]

Damain Lillard (#6 pick), Tim Duncan (#1 pick), J.J. Redick (#6 pick), David West (#8 pick), Draymond Green (#35 pick), Chandler Parsons (#38 pick), George Hill (#26 pick)

You forgot Butler, Kenneth Faried, CJ McCollum too. Think about the growth Butler has made since being drafted, it is ludicrous that people still age discriminate given all the figures showing the contrary.

Just as an example I, myself grew from 5'10 to 6'2 between the ages of 20-25 thus how could a 4 year college player stop 'growing as a player' after college if they could still be physically growing?

Really? Dang, so I still could have more room for growth! That made me really happy! So here's a TP for you!

[slightly biased bias fan]

Damain Lillard (#6 pick), Tim Duncan (#1 pick), J.J. Redick (#6 pick), David West (#8 pick), Draymond Green (#35 pick), Chandler Parsons (#38 pick), George Hill (#26 pick)

You forgot Butler, Kenneth Faried, CJ McCollum too. Think about the growth Butler has made since being drafted, it is ludicrous that people still age discriminate given all the figures showing the contrary.

Just as an example I, myself grew from 5'10 to 6'2 between the ages of 20-25 thus how could a 4 year college player stop 'growing as a player' after college if they could still be physically growing?

Really? Dang, so I still could have more room for growth! That made me really happy! So here's a TP for you!

Haha thanks, yeah men don't stop growing till between 21-25 just depends how much, growing that quick has major draw backs I have stretch marks on my back from growing so quick, and my feet are now size 13 which can be very difficult to find shoes I like in my size.

[LooseCannon]

Damain Lillard (#6 pick), Tim Duncan (#1 pick), J.J. Redick (#6 pick), David West (#8 pick), Draymond Green (#35 pick), Chandler Parsons (#38 pick), George Hill (#26 pick)

All stars who played 4 years in college. So anyone who says Heild won't be a all-star starter cause they played all 4 years is flat out prematurely stating opinions. Now I'm not saying Danny Ainge is gonna draft the kid at #3 because I don't see that happening. I see him dragging Dragon Bender at #3. All I'm saying is this kid Buddy Held has what it takes to be an all star in this league in a few years and I say 3 years. You can disagree with me all u want but why don't you just let time take its course instead of downing the kid before he even gets drafted.

There's a difference between saying Hield won't be an All-Star and saying he is less likely than other players of similar draft status to become an All-Star.

I haven't run the numbers, but if we look at players drafted in the top ten in the past ten years, will All-Star appearances per player be higher or lower for college seniors compared to the general population?  Will it be higher than the number for international players?  That's a project that someone could do if they feel like doing analysis.

[BitterJim]

Damain Lillard (#6 pick), Tim Duncan (#1 pick), J.J. Redick (#6 pick), David West (#8 pick), Draymond Green (#35 pick), Chandler Parsons (#38 pick), George Hill (#26 pick)

All stars who played 4 years in college. So anyone who says Heild won't be a all-star starter cause they played all 4 years is flat out prematurely stating opinions. Now I'm not saying Danny Ainge is gonna draft the kid at #3 because I don't see that happening. I see him dragging Dragon Bender at #3. All I'm saying is this kid Buddy Held has what it takes to be an all star in this league in a few years and I say 3 years. You can disagree with me all u want but why don't you just let time take its course instead of downing the kid before he even gets drafted.

There's a difference between saying Hield won't be an All-Star and saying he is less likely than other players of similar draft status to become an All-Star.

I haven't run the numbers, but if we look at players drafted in the top ten in the past ten years, will All-Star appearances per player be higher or lower for college seniors compared to the general population?  Will it be higher than the number for international players?  That's a project that someone could do if they feel like doing analysis.

I'm throwing together some of this data now, I'll try to update later and/or post the data

[RebusRankin]

Since the 2007 NBA draft, Roy Hibbert, Draymond Green and Jimmy Butler are the only Seniors drafted who've played in an ASG.

[BitterJim]

Since the 2007 NBA draft, Roy Hibbert, Draymond Green and Jimmy Butler are the only Seniors drafted who've played in an ASG.

That's not true

Just off the top of my head, Lillard was a senior in 2012 and has made 2 all star games

[Celtics18]

I forgot Butler was a senior.  He played his freshman season at a junior college before transferring to Marquette, playing his sophomore, junior and senior seasons there.

[RebusRankin]

Oops missed Lillard. The point remains, not too many Seniors become All Stars.

[crimson_stallion]

Damain Lillard (#6 pick), Tim Duncan (#1 pick), J.J. Redick (#6 pick), David West (#8 pick), Draymond Green (#35 pick), Chandler Parsons (#38 pick), George Hill (#26 pick)

All stars who played 4 years in college. So anyone who says Heild won't be a all-star starter cause they played all 4 years is flat out prematurely stating opinions. Now I'm not saying Danny Ainge is gonna draft the kid at #3 because I don't see that happening. I see him dragging Dragon Bender at #3. All I'm saying is this kid Buddy Held has what it takes to be an all star in this league in a few years and I say 3 years. You can disagree with me all u want but why don't you just let time take its course instead of downing the kid before he even gets drafted.

There's a difference between saying Hield won't be an All-Star and saying he is less likely than other players of similar draft status to become an All-Star.

I haven't run the numbers, but if we look at players drafted in the top ten in the past ten years, will All-Star appearances per player be higher or lower for college seniors compared to the general population?  Will it be higher than the number for international players?  That's a project that someone could do if they feel like doing analysis.

To be completely honest, I think people are just throwing way too much emphasis onto age and historical records.

I watch Hield play, and I see pure dominance, and a guy who looks/moves/plays like a future NBA all star. When I look at his statistics, they do nothing to push me away from that perspective - they only reinforce it.

Now, Doug McDermott was also a senior, he was also a great shooter, and he also put up outstanding scoring numbers in his final year.  But there was never a moment where I watched McDermott play and said "this guy looks like a future NBA all-star". 

I can't explain it, but there is something about the way Hield plays and carries himself.  He has that 'swagger' and the killer instinct.  I see no fear and no hesitation in anything Hield does on the court - he doesn't care if he's wide open or if he has a guy coming straight for him, he will not hesitate for a moment to let that shot go.  He reminds me a lot of Kobe and Dwyane Wade in that regard - he's one of those guys who was just built for the big moments.

Honestly, I don't know if there is any other guy in the top 6 or 8 of this draft class who I feel has "it" as much as Hield does. There are other guys with high intangibles, but Hield is just on a whole other level with that stuff.

So when I see the Hield's on-court swagger, and I see the confidence he has in himself, and I see the solid physical attributes and the things he can do on a court - I look at all of that as a package, and I see a guy who (in my eyes) has All-Star written all over him.

Now I obviously can't see the future, so there is no way for me to KNOW he is going to become that star.  I could well be wrong about him, and if I do end up wrong I will graciously admit it - but my instinct just tells me that he is going to be a beast, and one of the (if not THE) biggest surprises of the draft.

It sounds crazy, but I think Simmons and Hield are the two guys in this draft who are most likely to become All-Stars.

[Celtics18]

Lillard, Butler, CJ McCollum, Dray Green.  That's a solid list of recently drafted seniors who are doing quite nicely in the league.

[crimson_stallion]

Oops missed Lillard. The point remains, not too many Seniors become All Stars.

Plus there are the international guys, like Marc Gasol (who came into the NBA as an pretty raw 24 year old).

Likewise not many 5'10" point guards selected at #60 in the draft become all stars - but look at lil' old Isaiah ripping up the league pretty much on a nightly basis - getting respect from the biggest stars in the league.

Likewise, if somebody told you 3 months ago that OKC were going to be leading  healthy Warriors squad 3-1 in the playoffs (after dispatching the Spurs in a shockingly one sided series) you would probably tell them they're out of their minds.

Not everything can be predicted effectively based on historical odds.  Some guys just have 'it', and age just doesn't matter. 

[Alleyoopster]

I realize there is a love fest here on CB for Heild and many are not sold on Bender. But, I think Bender is a far more intriguing prospect. Heild will get points and he is a better athlete. He may even turn out to be an all star one day.

Bender, once he gets stronger and gains some experience, is likely to be incredibly entertaining, unpredictable and possibly indefensible. Think about it, he's a 7 footer with point guard skills. He can start the fast break either by dribbling up court or by making long outlet passes, he keeps balls alive with his length, he draws double teams when down low.....allowing him to hit the cutter, he drives to the hoop off the dribble with ease (a 7 footer with this skill is unbelievable), even though he may not be a menace on defense like KG....he still alters shots. He is going to get a lot better on defense with practice and time in the weight room. He'd be a freshman or sophomore  in college in the fall if he lived in the States.

Coaches would love to have someone like him on their team. He's tall, agile, talented, smart, a very good passer and shooter. He will make his teammates better players.

I don't doubt Heild will score and help win games. He just won't have the whole package that Bender provides. Once Bender gets stronger, he should be a lot tougher on the boards and be a much more versatile and valued commodity. I think many are down on Bender because he doesn't exude elite athleticism or drive. My feeling is that he more than makes up for it in other ways.   

[crimson_stallion]

I realize there is a love fest here on CB for Heild and many are not sold on Bender. But, I think Bender is a far more intriguing prospect. Heild will get points and he is a better athlete. He may even turn out to be an all star one day.

Bender, once he gets stronger and gains some experience, is likely to be incredibly entertaining, unpredictable and possibly indefensible. Think about it, he's a 7 footer with point guard skills. He can start the fast break either by dribbling up court or by making long outlet passes, he keeps balls alive with his length, he draws double teams when down low.....allowing him to hit the cutter, he drives to the hoop off the dribble with ease (a 7 footer with this skill is unbelievable), even though he may not be a menace on defense like KG....he still alters shots. He is going to get a lot better on defense with practice and time in the weight room. He'd be a freshman or sophomore  in college in the fall if he lived in the States.

Coaches would love to have someone like him on their team. He's tall, agile, talented, smart, a very good passer and shooter. He will make his teammates better players.

I don't doubt Heild will score and help win games. He just won't have the whole package that Bender provides. Once Bender gets stronger, he should be a lot tougher on the boards and be a much more versatile and valued commodity. I think many are down on Bender because he doesn't exude elite athleticism or drive. My feeling is that he more than makes up for it in other ways.

My issue is that I do not see any of the bolded text above.

I don't see him being especially entertaining, or unpredictable - certainly not indefensible.  He's just way to average at everything he does.  As a shooter he is no Dirk, as a passer and ball handler he is no Ben Simmons, and as an athlete and defender he is no Anthony Davis.

I don't see him as a 7 footer with point guard skills - I just think he has a guy who has a fairly tight handle and solid passing skills by big man standards.  He is no Toni Kukoc as a passer and ball handler - not even close.

I also don't see him drawing double teams inside.  He's just not an especially good inside scorer.  He has no real go to moves...he just tries to use his height/length to shoot over everybody...something that will be harder to do in the NBA where most of the elite bigs seem to have 7'5" wingspans.

The thing with Bender is that I don't honestly see a whole lot he has that Kelly Olynyk doesn't.  When Kelly was in college he was a good passer, good ball handler, pretty mobile for a 7 footer and ran the floor well, high basketball IQ, good post game and a better shooter then Bender is now.  Same height too. 

The only advantages Bender has over Olynyk are:
* 4 inches of length
* around 3 years of youth
* better mobility

Sure those advantages are significant, but are they significant enough to make the difference between a 20 MPG backup center and a sure-fire All Star?  I don't think so.

I'm no COMPLETELY against the idea that Bender could be an all-star, but I do think it's pretty unlikely.  I think he's more likely to become a longer and more athletic KO, which would be nice...but not #3 worthy.

[kozlodoev]

Kelly Olynyk, in fact, did play PG in high school, so as far as "seven footers with point guard skills" are concerned, he's the ultimate example. And he's still not a great player because he's not great in with "big man skills".