Author Topic: CBS Sports Latest Mock: Sixers Trade Okafor to Celts for 3rd Pick, take Dunn  (Read 18791 times)

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Offline Big333223

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I wouldn't trade #1 pick for him, but #3? Yes, yes I would.

Sure there is risk attached. The advanced stats are a little scary. But compared to the risk of a player like Bender, or Hield, or Murray? The upside is just as high, and the floor is what? Brook Lopez?

Suppose we utilize him smartly, and he becomes a "mere" 18/8 center with a block or two every night and average defense. Develops a decent midrange game and hits his free throws. On certain nights/matchups he becomes a nightmare for teams with no post defense. That's a [dang] valuable asset.
I don't disagree with this, in spirit, but I don't think it's accurate to say Okafor's upside is as high as someone like Bender. Bender's upside is a 7-foot rim protector who can shoot 3's, distribute, and guard anyone in the frontcourt. There isn't even a good NBA comp for a guy like that.

btw, this is my 1000th post.  8)

I like Bender, but that's just not true. Porzingis is an easy NBA comp who is nearly a best case scenario for Bender 2 years from now. Bender is a good prospect but he's hardly the first sweet shooting euro big man. Will he be as good as Gallinari, Kirilenko, Nowitzki?

Okafor's upside is a 7 foot All-Star center who averages over 20/10 with a couple blocks for the next 10 years. Not saying it's going to happen, but he's hardly set in stone with the limitations of his 20 year-old season. Guys who can average 18/7 before their 21st birthdays have every bit the upside of any 18 year-old prospect who hasn't played in a top level league, with the exception of maybe LeBron back in the day. He could score 25ppg one day.

I can't fault anyone for objectively preferring Bender, but I just don't see the logical argument that one of these guys definitely has a higher upside than the other. Okafor is just as capable to improve his defense and score 25 per game, as Bender is to develop from euro bench player to NBA star in his 18-22 years.
I understand everyone's inclination to compare one 3-point shooting European 7-footer to the other one that was just drafted but they seem like they're pretty different players to me. Bender is a much more versatile defender (although probably not as good of a rim protector) and has better passing instincts.

Kirilenko is probably the better comp but Bender is a better shooter than Kirilenko was and he's bigger. That potential, to me, is more valuable than Al Jefferson 2.0.
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Offline byennie

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I understand everyone's inclination to compare one 3-point shooting European 7-footer to the other one that was just drafted but they seem like they're pretty different players to me. Bender is a much more versatile defender (although probably not as good of a rim protector) and has better passing instincts.

Kirilenko is probably the better comp but Bender is a better shooter than Kirilenko was and he's bigger. That potential, to me, is more valuable than Al Jefferson 2.0.

Don't you think it's kind of ironic to question the Porzingis comparison and then go straight to Okafor = Jefferson because they are both low post big men / top recruits in the US? Neither comp is complete, but they both share skillsets.

It's very premature to say that Bender will be more valuable or versatile defensively than Porzingis. Versatility is good, but so are 7'3" rim protectors who can guard most PFs. What are the odds that Bender will really defend the SF spot in the NBA? Young big men are always being hyped for their "point guard" skills and how they could be 7 foot small forwards in the NBA, but in reality it rarely works out that way. What are the odds he's really better than a Kirilenko, Gallinari or Kukoc (all good players BTW but not superstars).

Offline footey

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Bender is a longer, taller, slightly more athletic Kelly, but Kelly has better ball handling skills. I think Bender has a more assertive personality than Kelly which is why I think he will out perform him.

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Considering they're similar type players, why do some think Ainge would trade a #3 pick, and perhaps even more, for Okafor when he showed absolutely no interest in Monroe last summer? Both are good low post players, lack range, and are bad defensive players. However, Monore is a better passer and rebounder and has has zero off the court issues.
Okafor basically matched Monroe's production and Okafor was a rookie on one of the worst teams of all time.

Monroe is a B to B- player.  Okafor is a B with the potential to be a solid A in a league where the only thing that matters is finding A-caliber players.

I see J.Okafor in the same light as Monroe.

Like Monroe, a B- player without the talent to be an A-caliber player.

I agree that J.Okafor has A caliber talent offensively (individual scoring, team offense and passing) but not as an overall player (team defense, individual defense, defensive rebounding). I don't think J.Okafor will be able to improve those latter areas enough to ever become an A-caliber player.

Offline PAOBoston

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Slightly off the Okafor topic but, but what are thoughts on Doman Domanatas Sabonis. I don't watch much college basketball but I'm intrigued of the little I have seen of him. He doesn't seem like a great athlete but he looks more of the fundamentally sound players in this draft. I think he's offensively polished down low, especially for his age. Hes also a plus rebounder. I've seen mock draft with him ranging from anywhere from late lottery to late teens. I think he'd be a good Sullinger replacement. Thoughts?

Offline alldaboston

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Slightly off the Okafor topic but, but what are thoughts on Doman Domanatas Sabonis. I don't watch much college basketball but I'm intrigued of the little I have seen of him. He doesn't seem like a great athlete but he looks more of the fundamentally sound players in this draft. I think he's offensively polished down low, especially for his age. Hes also a plus rebounder. I've seen mock draft with him ranging from anywhere from late lottery to late teens. I think he'd be a good Sullinger replacement. Thoughts?

Please, allow me to introduce you to our very own Sabonis expert, triboy16f!

His profile page is here: http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=6140

He has tons of Sabonis threads he makes.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

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Offline Big333223

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I understand everyone's inclination to compare one 3-point shooting European 7-footer to the other one that was just drafted but they seem like they're pretty different players to me. Bender is a much more versatile defender (although probably not as good of a rim protector) and has better passing instincts.

Kirilenko is probably the better comp but Bender is a better shooter than Kirilenko was and he's bigger. That potential, to me, is more valuable than Al Jefferson 2.0.

Don't you think it's kind of ironic to question the Porzingis comparison and then go straight to Okafor = Jefferson because they are both low post big men / top recruits in the US? Neither comp is complete, but they both share skillsets.

It's very premature to say that Bender will be more valuable or versatile defensively than Porzingis. Versatility is good, but so are 7'3" rim protectors who can guard most PFs. What are the odds that Bender will really defend the SF spot in the NBA? Young big men are always being hyped for their "point guard" skills and how they could be 7 foot small forwards in the NBA, but in reality it rarely works out that way. What are the odds he's really better than a Kirilenko, Gallinari or Kukoc (all good players BTW but not superstars).
No, because Okafor and Jefferson have similar strengths (great post game, physical strength) and limitations (defense, jump shooting). Bender and Porzingis have different strengths (Bender is a versatile defender with good passing instincts, Porzingis is a rim protector with a better scoring abilitiy).

This is all assuming Bender would ever pan out in the NBA, but this is basically what the scouting reports I've read have said about Bender's game.
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Offline PickNRoll

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Considering they're similar type players, why do some think Ainge would trade a #3 pick, and perhaps even more, for Okafor when he showed absolutely no interest in Monroe last summer? Both are good low post players, lack range, and are bad defensive players. However, Monore is a better passer and rebounder and has has zero off the court issues.
Okafor basically matched Monroe's production and Okafor was a rookie on one of the worst teams of all time.

Monroe is a B to B- player.  Okafor is a B with the potential to be a solid A in a league where the only thing that matters is finding A-caliber players.

I see J.Okafor in the same light as Monroe.

Like Monroe, a B- player without the talent to be an A-caliber player.

I agree that J.Okafor has A caliber talent offensively (individual scoring, team offense and passing) but not as an overall player (team defense, individual defense, defensive rebounding). I don't think J.Okafor will be able to improve those latter areas enough to ever become an A-caliber player.
Yeah, that's fair.  I guess my unstated thinking was that he could be an A+ offensively.  The best post player in the league for a decade.  And maybe something like a B on defense, once he figures it out.