Author Topic: CBS Sports Latest Mock: Sixers Trade Okafor to Celts for 3rd Pick, take Dunn  (Read 18790 times)

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Offline TheSundanceKid

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This makes no sense for Philadelphia. Why would they want Dunn? Why would they need the #3 pick?

Noel can't shoot. Simmons can't shoot. Embiid can't play (maybe). Okafor can shoot but - in this scenario at least - is being traded.

Now add Dunn to the mix... guess what he has in common with the other starters? He can't shoot! Murray would be a much better choice for them, or trade Okafor for an established point guard who can actually drain a jumper or two in a game. Or sign one as a free agent. The only way Dunn makes any sense is if they take Ingram first.

Anyway, even assuming they want to draft a guard, they will (likely) have one of Murray, Dunn, or Hield if they trade for the #5 (Minnesota) or #6 (New Orleans). Yes I know Hield isn't a PG, but he provides something that team needs. I don't think they'll need the #3 to accomplish their goals.

Well Dunn can shoot, just not as well as Hield or Murray. The point of Dunn is he is a big Point Guard whereas Murray and Hield are primarily shooting guards.

The advantage of trading for #3 is you secure your guy, if Philly have one.

#3 isn't enough for Okafor though, there would need to be more. In my mock I gave #3, #23, #31 and Hunter/Young for him. There are other packages out there, notably Phoenix with #4 and #13 that mean we will need to pay more than just #3

Offline blackbird

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This makes no sense for Philadelphia. Why would they want Dunn? Why would they need the #3 pick?

Noel can't shoot. Simmons can't shoot. Embiid can't play (maybe). Okafor can shoot but - in this scenario at least - is being traded.

Now add Dunn to the mix... guess what he has in common with the other starters? He can't shoot! Murray would be a much better choice for them, or trade Okafor for an established point guard who can actually drain a jumper or two in a game. Or sign one as a free agent. The only way Dunn makes any sense is if they take Ingram first.

Anyway, even assuming they want to draft a guard, they will (likely) have one of Murray, Dunn, or Hield if they trade for the #5 (Minnesota) or #6 (New Orleans). Yes I know Hield isn't a PG, but he provides something that team needs. I don't think they'll need the #3 to accomplish their goals.

Well Dunn can shoot, just not as well as Hield or Murray. The point of Dunn is he is a big Point Guard whereas Murray and Hield are primarily shooting guards.

The advantage of trading for #3 is you secure your guy, if Philly have one.

#3 isn't enough for Okafor though, there would need to be more. In my mock I gave #3, #23, #31 and Hunter/Young for him. There are other packages out there, notably Phoenix with #4 and #13 that mean we will need to pay more than just #3

Dunn is an incredible athlete, good defender and fantastic passer (despite the turnovers). But he is a Marcus Smart-level shooter and that's not good.

Jamal Murray can run the point. I just think he's a much better fit for that specific team if they take Simmons (who I contend could also run the point, a la Giannis Antetokounmpo).

Either Dunn or Murray (or both) will be available at 4 or 5, so no need to trade with Boston.

Offline Surferdad

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This makes no sense for Philadelphia. Why would they want Dunn? Why would they need the #3 pick?

Noel can't shoot. Simmons can't shoot. Embiid can't play (maybe). Okafor can shoot but - in this scenario at least - is being traded.

Now add Dunn to the mix... guess what he has in common with the other starters? He can't shoot! Murray would be a much better choice for them, or trade Okafor for an established point guard who can actually drain a jumper or two in a game. Or sign one as a free agent. The only way Dunn makes any sense is if they take Ingram first.

Anyway, even assuming they want to draft a guard, they will (likely) have one of Murray, Dunn, or Hield if they trade for the #5 (Minnesota) or #6 (New Orleans). Yes I know Hield isn't a PG, but he provides something that team needs. I don't think they'll need the #3 to accomplish their goals.

Well Dunn can shoot, just not as well as Hield or Murray. The point of Dunn is he is a big Point Guard whereas Murray and Hield are primarily shooting guards.

The advantage of trading for #3 is you secure your guy, if Philly have one.

#3 isn't enough for Okafor though, there would need to be more. In my mock I gave #3, #23, #31 and Hunter/Young for him. There are other packages out there, notably Phoenix with #4 and #13 that mean we will need to pay more than just #3
I think Philly is motivated to unload Okafor to get the #3.  As such, I see no reason to overpay.  #3 and Young for Okafor and 2nd rounder.

Offline TheSundanceKid

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This makes no sense for Philadelphia. Why would they want Dunn? Why would they need the #3 pick?

Noel can't shoot. Simmons can't shoot. Embiid can't play (maybe). Okafor can shoot but - in this scenario at least - is being traded.

Now add Dunn to the mix... guess what he has in common with the other starters? He can't shoot! Murray would be a much better choice for them, or trade Okafor for an established point guard who can actually drain a jumper or two in a game. Or sign one as a free agent. The only way Dunn makes any sense is if they take Ingram first.

Anyway, even assuming they want to draft a guard, they will (likely) have one of Murray, Dunn, or Hield if they trade for the #5 (Minnesota) or #6 (New Orleans). Yes I know Hield isn't a PG, but he provides something that team needs. I don't think they'll need the #3 to accomplish their goals.

Well Dunn can shoot, just not as well as Hield or Murray. The point of Dunn is he is a big Point Guard whereas Murray and Hield are primarily shooting guards.

The advantage of trading for #3 is you secure your guy, if Philly have one.

#3 isn't enough for Okafor though, there would need to be more. In my mock I gave #3, #23, #31 and Hunter/Young for him. There are other packages out there, notably Phoenix with #4 and #13 that mean we will need to pay more than just #3

Dunn is an incredible athlete, good defender and fantastic passer (despite the turnovers). But he is a Marcus Smart-level shooter and that's not good.

Jamal Murray can run the point. I just think he's a much better fit for that specific team if they take Simmons (who I contend could also run the point, a la Giannis Antetokounmpo).

Either Dunn or Murray (or both) will be available at 4 or 5, so no need to trade with Boston.

Good points. There is certainly no need to trade with Boston, on that we agree. But if Boston can give the most attractive deal then why not?

Would they still give Okafor for the 5th or 6th pick? That seems like an overpay, Minny or NO would need to give more. As I said Phoenix can be players with #4 and #13 which is why we'd need to add some assets

This makes no sense for Philadelphia. Why would they want Dunn? Why would they need the #3 pick?

Noel can't shoot. Simmons can't shoot. Embiid can't play (maybe). Okafor can shoot but - in this scenario at least - is being traded.

Now add Dunn to the mix... guess what he has in common with the other starters? He can't shoot! Murray would be a much better choice for them, or trade Okafor for an established point guard who can actually drain a jumper or two in a game. Or sign one as a free agent. The only way Dunn makes any sense is if they take Ingram first.

Anyway, even assuming they want to draft a guard, they will (likely) have one of Murray, Dunn, or Hield if they trade for the #5 (Minnesota) or #6 (New Orleans). Yes I know Hield isn't a PG, but he provides something that team needs. I don't think they'll need the #3 to accomplish their goals.

Well Dunn can shoot, just not as well as Hield or Murray. The point of Dunn is he is a big Point Guard whereas Murray and Hield are primarily shooting guards.

The advantage of trading for #3 is you secure your guy, if Philly have one.

#3 isn't enough for Okafor though, there would need to be more. In my mock I gave #3, #23, #31 and Hunter/Young for him. There are other packages out there, notably Phoenix with #4 and #13 that mean we will need to pay more than just #3
I think Philly is motivated to unload Okafor to get the #3.  As such, I see no reason to overpay.  #3 and Young for Okafor and 2nd rounder.

Whether they are motivated or not Phoenix should also be interested in Okafor, even if only for value. #4 and #13 trumps that offer of #3 and Young

Offline Evantime34

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This is the price I'm comfortable paying for Okafor. If the Sixers wanted more than that I would walk away from the deal.

I'd rather have Bender or Murray than to deal a lot more than the third pick for Okafor.

Love the Skal upside pick as a player who could be starter caliber in a couple years down the road. That video of him shooting NBA 3's made him my ideal target at 16, but I doubt he lasts until 16.If both panned out Okafor and Skal could be a great pairing for the next 10 years.

Luwawu is a really long and athletic wing that could be helpful down the line. Maybe he could even give us immediate minutes as a 3 and d guy.
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Offline ssspence

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Not a perfect fit, but he's absolutely the best talent at 3 available over the guys in the draft.

As far as you know. Until a player taken at 3 or after becomes better, which one almost certainly will. At which point said player will absolutely be the best talent available over Jahlil Okafor.

I'm sorry, but if the Cs are in the market for a one dimensional player with the #3 pick in the draft, I have a problem with that.
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Offline boscel33

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The Mock also has the C's trading the 3=23rd to the Pistons, but doesn't say what the C's get in return.  Strange.
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Offline jpotter33

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Not a perfect fit, but he's absolutely the best talent at 3 available over the guys in the draft.

As far as you know. Until a player taken at 3 or after becomes better, which one almost certainly will. At which point said player will absolutely be the best talent available over Jahlil Okafor.

I'm sorry, but if the Cs are in the market for a one dimensional player with the #3 pick in the draft, I have a problem with that.

You realize this is contradictory, right? lol You can't say "one almost certainly will" become better after having the previous sentence be "as far as you know."  ;)

Offline BitterJim

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The Mock also has the C's trading the 3=23rd to the Pistons, but doesn't say what the C's get in return.  Strange.

The 23rd, 31st, and 35th picks went to the Pistons for the #18 pick (Timothe Luwawu)
I'm bitter.

Offline Surferdad

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This makes no sense for Philadelphia. Why would they want Dunn? Why would they need the #3 pick?

Noel can't shoot. Simmons can't shoot. Embiid can't play (maybe). Okafor can shoot but - in this scenario at least - is being traded.

Now add Dunn to the mix... guess what he has in common with the other starters? He can't shoot! Murray would be a much better choice for them, or trade Okafor for an established point guard who can actually drain a jumper or two in a game. Or sign one as a free agent. The only way Dunn makes any sense is if they take Ingram first.

Anyway, even assuming they want to draft a guard, they will (likely) have one of Murray, Dunn, or Hield if they trade for the #5 (Minnesota) or #6 (New Orleans). Yes I know Hield isn't a PG, but he provides something that team needs. I don't think they'll need the #3 to accomplish their goals.

Well Dunn can shoot, just not as well as Hield or Murray. The point of Dunn is he is a big Point Guard whereas Murray and Hield are primarily shooting guards.

The advantage of trading for #3 is you secure your guy, if Philly have one.

#3 isn't enough for Okafor though, there would need to be more. In my mock I gave #3, #23, #31 and Hunter/Young for him. There are other packages out there, notably Phoenix with #4 and #13 that mean we will need to pay more than just #3

Dunn is an incredible athlete, good defender and fantastic passer (despite the turnovers). But he is a Marcus Smart-level shooter and that's not good.

Jamal Murray can run the point. I just think he's a much better fit for that specific team if they take Simmons (who I contend could also run the point, a la Giannis Antetokounmpo).

Either Dunn or Murray (or both) will be available at 4 or 5, so no need to trade with Boston.

Good points. There is certainly no need to trade with Boston, on that we agree. But if Boston can give the most attractive deal then why not?

Would they still give Okafor for the 5th or 6th pick? That seems like an overpay, Minny or NO would need to give more. As I said Phoenix can be players with #4 and #13 which is why we'd need to add some assets

This makes no sense for Philadelphia. Why would they want Dunn? Why would they need the #3 pick?

Noel can't shoot. Simmons can't shoot. Embiid can't play (maybe). Okafor can shoot but - in this scenario at least - is being traded.

Now add Dunn to the mix... guess what he has in common with the other starters? He can't shoot! Murray would be a much better choice for them, or trade Okafor for an established point guard who can actually drain a jumper or two in a game. Or sign one as a free agent. The only way Dunn makes any sense is if they take Ingram first.

Anyway, even assuming they want to draft a guard, they will (likely) have one of Murray, Dunn, or Hield if they trade for the #5 (Minnesota) or #6 (New Orleans). Yes I know Hield isn't a PG, but he provides something that team needs. I don't think they'll need the #3 to accomplish their goals.

Well Dunn can shoot, just not as well as Hield or Murray. The point of Dunn is he is a big Point Guard whereas Murray and Hield are primarily shooting guards.

The advantage of trading for #3 is you secure your guy, if Philly have one.

#3 isn't enough for Okafor though, there would need to be more. In my mock I gave #3, #23, #31 and Hunter/Young for him. There are other packages out there, notably Phoenix with #4 and #13 that mean we will need to pay more than just #3
I think Philly is motivated to unload Okafor to get the #3.  As such, I see no reason to overpay.  #3 and Young for Okafor and 2nd rounder.

Whether they are motivated or not Phoenix should also be interested in Okafor, even if only for value. #4 and #13 trumps that offer of #3 and Young
That's fine.  The whole idea behind not overpaying is that if the deal falls through the GM is willing to move in a different direction.  That is exactly the case here.  Okafor will be Al Jefferson (part II), a guy Danny traded away to get a superstar.

Offline konkmv

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If i were danny i would take bender trade him for 4 and 13... get dunn and give him with young to sixers for okafor....
With 13 i would pick skai
With 16 valentine
With 23 prince and with 31 maker... dream on

Offline TheSundanceKid

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This makes no sense for Philadelphia. Why would they want Dunn? Why would they need the #3 pick?

Noel can't shoot. Simmons can't shoot. Embiid can't play (maybe). Okafor can shoot but - in this scenario at least - is being traded.

Now add Dunn to the mix... guess what he has in common with the other starters? He can't shoot! Murray would be a much better choice for them, or trade Okafor for an established point guard who can actually drain a jumper or two in a game. Or sign one as a free agent. The only way Dunn makes any sense is if they take Ingram first.

Anyway, even assuming they want to draft a guard, they will (likely) have one of Murray, Dunn, or Hield if they trade for the #5 (Minnesota) or #6 (New Orleans). Yes I know Hield isn't a PG, but he provides something that team needs. I don't think they'll need the #3 to accomplish their goals.

Well Dunn can shoot, just not as well as Hield or Murray. The point of Dunn is he is a big Point Guard whereas Murray and Hield are primarily shooting guards.

The advantage of trading for #3 is you secure your guy, if Philly have one.

#3 isn't enough for Okafor though, there would need to be more. In my mock I gave #3, #23, #31 and Hunter/Young for him. There are other packages out there, notably Phoenix with #4 and #13 that mean we will need to pay more than just #3
I think Philly is motivated to unload Okafor to get the #3.  As such, I see no reason to overpay.  #3 and Young for Okafor and 2nd rounder.

Whether they are motivated or not Phoenix should also be interested in Okafor, even if only for value. #4 and #13 trumps that offer of #3 and Young
That's fine.  The whole idea behind not overpaying is that if the deal falls through the GM is willing to move in a different direction.  That is exactly the case here.  Okafor will be Al Jefferson (part II), a guy Danny traded away to get a superstar.
I think he's better than Jefferson defensively already. I think he certainly has a better career. Your last sentence is the crux though. Is Okafor a better asset than the #3 pick? I think he probably is, he's definitely a more sure asset which will appeal to more teams. Personally I think he'll be a better player than Bender or Murray etc but I understand if others feel differently there

Offline ssspence

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Not a perfect fit, but he's absolutely the best talent at 3 available over the guys in the draft.

As far as you know. Until a player taken at 3 or after becomes better, which one almost certainly will. At which point said player will absolutely be the best talent available over Jahlil Okafor.

I'm sorry, but if the Cs are in the market for a one dimensional player with the #3 pick in the draft, I have a problem with that.

You realize this is contradictory, right? lol You can't say "one almost certainly will" become better after having the previous sentence be "as far as you know."  ;)

It's a figure of speech. I'll avoid spelling it out to spare myself a wrist slap from the mods.

Your perspective is 'absolute' because you're not an NBA scout, so it's easy to make this claim in a bird-in-the-hand capacity. The point remains.... the Cs should aspire to better with #3, whether via trade or pick.
Mike

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Offline Surferdad

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This makes no sense for Philadelphia. Why would they want Dunn? Why would they need the #3 pick?

Noel can't shoot. Simmons can't shoot. Embiid can't play (maybe). Okafor can shoot but - in this scenario at least - is being traded.

Now add Dunn to the mix... guess what he has in common with the other starters? He can't shoot! Murray would be a much better choice for them, or trade Okafor for an established point guard who can actually drain a jumper or two in a game. Or sign one as a free agent. The only way Dunn makes any sense is if they take Ingram first.

Anyway, even assuming they want to draft a guard, they will (likely) have one of Murray, Dunn, or Hield if they trade for the #5 (Minnesota) or #6 (New Orleans). Yes I know Hield isn't a PG, but he provides something that team needs. I don't think they'll need the #3 to accomplish their goals.

Well Dunn can shoot, just not as well as Hield or Murray. The point of Dunn is he is a big Point Guard whereas Murray and Hield are primarily shooting guards.

The advantage of trading for #3 is you secure your guy, if Philly have one.

#3 isn't enough for Okafor though, there would need to be more. In my mock I gave #3, #23, #31 and Hunter/Young for him. There are other packages out there, notably Phoenix with #4 and #13 that mean we will need to pay more than just #3
I think Philly is motivated to unload Okafor to get the #3.  As such, I see no reason to overpay.  #3 and Young for Okafor and 2nd rounder.

Whether they are motivated or not Phoenix should also be interested in Okafor, even if only for value. #4 and #13 trumps that offer of #3 and Young
That's fine.  The whole idea behind not overpaying is that if the deal falls through the GM is willing to move in a different direction.  That is exactly the case here.  Okafor will be Al Jefferson (part II), a guy Danny traded away to get a superstar.
I think he's better than Jefferson defensively already. I think he certainly has a better career. Your last sentence is the crux though. Is Okafor a better asset than the #3 pick? I think he probably is, he's definitely a more sure asset which will appeal to more teams. Personally I think he'll be a better player than Bender or Murray etc but I understand if others feel differently there
After one season, what is the evidence that Okafor is better than Big Al already on defense and "certainly has a better career"?  Big Al is not terrible defender, just mediocre.  Big Al has scored a lot of points in this league so the "career" statement is puzzling.

"Is Okafor a better asset than the #3 pick?"  The answer is essentially what we are debating here, so you have a right to your opinion.  I would add that "a more sure asset" is indeed appealing to some teams but not necessarily more.  Other teams will want to swing for the fences even at the risk of striking out.

Offline jpotter33

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Not a perfect fit, but he's absolutely the best talent at 3 available over the guys in the draft.

As far as you know. Until a player taken at 3 or after becomes better, which one almost certainly will. At which point said player will absolutely be the best talent available over Jahlil Okafor.

I'm sorry, but if the Cs are in the market for a one dimensional player with the #3 pick in the draft, I have a problem with that.

You realize this is contradictory, right? lol You can't say "one almost certainly will" become better after having the previous sentence be "as far as you know."  ;)

It's a figure of speech. I'll avoid spelling it out to spare myself a wrist slap from the mods.

Your perspective is 'absolute' because you're not an NBA scout, so it's easy to make this claim in a bird-in-the-hand capacity. The point remains.... the Cs should aspire to better with #3, whether via trade or pick.

So we shouldn't draft Okafor because, though he's the best available talent as of this point, some time in the future someone picked three or later could be better than him. I mean, technically it's a valid argument, because due to the sheer volume of players selected three or later, there is a decent chance that someone picked three or later will end up being better than him. However, the chance of us picking that exact player, which there won't be many if any at all, are much lower than the chances of someone actually being better than Okafor, which makes this argument not very strong.

I'll take my chance on the more proven player who has shown that he can actually play at the NBA level rather than taking a much smaller chance on someone who ultimately may be better than Okafor in the future.