Author Topic: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me  (Read 11243 times)

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Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« on: May 24, 2016, 12:42:25 PM »

Offline Hawkeye199

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 A lot of people on this site think that marcus smart is a core foundational player. I agree he has an amazing work ethic,Great defense but his offense and playmaking are so dang awful. He keeps making major rookie mistakes and then saving the team from his mistakes but... Why is he considered more of a core member the avery bradley who makes less mistakes scores more and is the same level on the defensive side.

So why should marcus smart  be important to the celtics
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Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2016, 12:49:19 PM »

Offline manl_lui

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I don't know, but this is my reasoning

Marcus Smart got thrown in the fire and contributed at a higher level much earlier than Bradley did. I don't think Bradley contributed much in his first two seasons with the Celtics and it wasn't until the injury of Ray Allen did he showed up.

Smart on the other hand in his rookie season provided major defense with limited offense, in his first season before the trade for IT, pushed Rondo away (whom at that time I thought was the corner stone and future of the Celtics).

In his first season, Smart already contributed to winning as a Celtic and was in the middle of most of those game winners that we have. At his age he also showed tremendous leadership vs his peers.

While I agree that Bradley more or less does the same on the defensive end but better on the offensive end, I think the potential of Smart alone is also enough to make the case that he is our core foundation player. I would also like to add that yes, he can guard the 1 - 3 position very well, but to a lesser extent he can also guard the 4. His defense in the 2nd half of game 4 on Milsap was HUGE. His mentality is also very KG like when it comes to the defensive end, this guy hates losing and you can definitely see his fire.

Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2016, 12:53:12 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I don't think that the argument is he's a core foundational player but a player that has proven top level defense, improved abilities running point this year and has room for improvement (mostly on offense). 

he's not nearly the shooter that AB is but his D is better and AB is likely at his ceiling right now.

I'd trade either of them (the whole roster actually) in the right deal.

Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2016, 12:54:52 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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There is no hype. Some people like him some don't. He will get better but no one knows how much more.

Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2016, 01:07:11 PM »

Offline aingeforthree

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A lot of people on this site think that marcus smart is a core foundational player. I agree he has an amazing work ethic,Great defense but his offense and playmaking are so dang awful. He keeps making major rookie mistakes and then saving the team from his mistakes but... Why is he considered more of a core member the avery bradley who makes less mistakes scores more and is the same level on the defensive side.

So why should marcus smart  be important to the celtics

It's really centered around his defense.  For me, I compare him similar to how Tony Allen started out at 22 years old.  I think he has far more upside than Allen did at 22, and that is on both ends of the floor.  Obviously, Allen turned out to be darn good.  I think Marcus can mimic that and then some.

If the work is put in, Marcus can dominate defensively in this league for many years.  That's a trait any NBA team would love to have out on their perimeter.  If Marcus finds a consistent shot (it's still early in his development), WATCH OUT.  That would just add to his game.

Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2016, 01:21:20 PM »

Offline Ed Hollison

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I don't think he's going to be a star. And yet I really, really like him.

Defense: In the new NBA you need guys who can play multiple positions and can switch onto many different players and hold their own. When you get a player who can be a PASSABLE defender multiple positions, that's very valuable (see Jerebko). When you get a player who is a STANDOUT defender of multiple positions (see Smart on Millsap in the playoffs), that is enormous.

Offense: Shoots a low percentage, but does a lot of other things to contribute. Makes the right pass. Improved greatly from year 1 to year 2 as a ballhandler in the pick and roll. Offensive rebounds from the guard position. Like I've said in the past, if Smart eventually plateaus as only a mediocre offensive player, coupled with his defense he's still a huge asset to any team.

Lastly, leadership: Don't minimize the importance of this. It's huge in Smart's case. Anyone who watched the C's in the playoffs saw it. The guy does not shrink from big moments, he is hell bent on winning, and he is not intimidated by anybody. Contrast that to what we're seeing in some of the other playoff series this year -- Kyle Lowry needing to leave the floor to compose himself, to take one example -- and understand that if the Celtics are going to challenge for a title in the coming years, you're going to need players like this.
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Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2016, 01:22:37 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Excellent forcing turnovers and blanketing opposing players on-ball and off-ball.  Fights through screens.  Boxes out well and is competitive against larger guys.  Can switch onto bigger twos and even threes and the occasional 4 (e.g. Millsap).

In college, showed an ability to run the offense, attack the rim, and draw fouls.  Hasn't shown it as much in the pros, though the opportunities have been somewhat limited.

Excellent offensive rebounder for his size.  Makes hustle plays left and right.

Has a streaky outside jumper that could be a decent weapon if he becomes a bit more consistent.

Leader on the floor.  Always engaged and emotional.  Plays with 100% effort and self-sacrifice at all times.


So far, he's very raw offensively and has reached historic lows in terms of shooting efficiency. 

But he's also been entrusted with major minutes and come up with big plays in the clutch for a team that made the playoffs both of his first two seasons.  It's hard to find many guys who earned minutes and a big role like that despite poor offense who didn't go on to become something in the league.


Based on all of that, Smart is still a tantalizing piece despite his fairly glaring shortcomings.  He's only two years into his career and he's still younger than many guys in this year's draft.  There's still time for him to develop into an average offensive player with the ability to run an offense for stretches, though maybe not ever full time.

Provided he doesn't lose his intensity and excellent combination of strength, maneuverability, and anticipation on defense (e.g. due to injuries or putting more energy into offense), he could be a pretty valuable player (more so than he already is) with even an average offensive game for a combo guard.

I think sometimes people think that those talking about Smart as a potential big time contributor read that as a belief in Smart's ability to suddenly become a 20+ ppg scorer.  I think that's a misconception.

With his defense and peripheral attributes, Smart need only become a 12-14 point per game scorer (e.g. average for a shooting guard) with an outside shot that merits defending and an ability to get to the rim occasionally, and acceptable efficiency (e.g. 40 / 33 / 70) to be a top 10-15 player at his position.

All of that comes with the "provided that": Smart needs to be a combo guard for the above to apply.  I don't think he can be expected to become the full-time creator and primary scorer for an offense.  He has to be a secondary facilitator who spends stretches off the ball and occasionally looks for his own shot.  I don't think Smart will ever be top 10 as a full-time point guard.

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Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2016, 01:30:30 PM »

Online feckless

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I don't think that the argument is he's a core foundational player but a player that has proven top level defense, improved abilities running point this year and has room for improvement (mostly on offense). 

he's not nearly the shooter that AB is but his D is better and AB is likely at his ceiling right now.

I'd trade either of them (the whole roster actually) in the right deal.

I have to take issue with 2 of your points. 

If Marcus Smart has improved running the point then he has only gone from awful to bad.  His choices are still all too often awful.

And while Brad would frequently use different defenders to see who matched up best in various situations, for the most part Brad used Avery over Marcus as the top defender.  Marcus's D is not better than Avery's, at least from what I observed as to where Brad placed his confidence.
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Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2016, 01:37:29 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I value Smart's defense over Avery's because while Avery is better as a pure on-ball defender at the point (one of the best in the league, maybe the best), Smart has much more versatility.  I trust Smart to cover bigger twos and switch onto threes and even small fours.  I don't think Avery is really in his element defending bigger players.

Smart is also a good rebounder for his size.  Avery is average at best in that regard. 

Finally, Smart's steal rate is much better than Avery's.

That said, it's fair to wonder how Smart's defense and rebounding would change if his offensive burden were closer to Avery's.  Similarly, Avery's defense might stand out more (like it did his first couple years in the league) if his offensive burden were closer to the ideal (10-12 FGA per 36 as opposed to 14-15).


For my money, I'd rather have a two guard like Smart than Avery.  AB's offense is no-question much better than Smart's right now, but Smart is a more useful all-around defender and rebounder, plus he can actually handle the ball and create for others a bit, which I still do not trust AB to do.  Avery seems to have plateaued as a guy who takes as many mid rangers as three pointers, and who doesn't often get to the rim or draws fouls.

Smart has the potential to develop into a guy who can get to the rim a bit and still be a decent spot up option from three.  If he can do that, I think he'll easily eclipse AB's overall value while taking fewer shots on offense.


To me, Avery would be best on a team where he can defend the point full time and play off the ball close to full time on offense, probably next to a dominant scorer / creator on the wing e.g. James Harden, Kevin Durant, Demar Derozan, Paul George etc.  Basically, I'd want him to be a better version of Patrick Beverley.

I don't like him so much playing next to a tiny point like Isaiah who (1) has to be hidden on the weaker backcourt player as often as possible, meaning AB sometimes has to cover big twos and switch onto pure threes and (2) often likes to operate off the ball when the defense keys in on his driving too much.
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Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2016, 01:58:36 PM »

Online bdm860

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Because people love young prospects.  Just look at all the Mickey love and how many people are holding out hope in James Young.  It doesn't matter who you are, if you're a young player on the Celtics, there will be tons of people who will become instantly attached to you and believe you can become an All-Star/All-NBA player if just given enough minutes.

With Avery, he's a known quantity at this point.  People have moved on from him developing much more at this point and believe what you see is what you get.  Smart on the other hand, people have yet to accept what we see is his ceiling.

And it also helps that Marcus Smart is to defense what Gerald Green was to offense.  Just like Gerald would break out some crazy highlight reel dunk that makes you say, "wow if he can just develop the rest of his game he'll be an All-Star for sure,"  well Marcus is the same way on defense, making a spectacular play on D that makes everyone say, "wow if he can just develop the rest of his game he'll be an All-Star for sure."


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Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2016, 02:04:09 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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Because people love young prospects.  Just look at all the Mickey love and how many people are holding out hope in James Young.  It doesn't matter who you are, if you're a young player on the Celtics, there will be tons of people who will become instantly attached to you and believe you can become an All-Star/All-NBA player if just given enough minutes.

With Avery, he's a known quantity at this point.  People have moved on from him developing much more at this point and believe what you see is what you get.  Smart on the other hand, people have yet to accept what we see is his ceiling.

And it also helps that Marcus Smart is to defense what Gerald Green was to offense.  Just like Gerald would break out some crazy highlight reel dunk that makes you say, "wow if he can just develop the rest of his game he'll be an All-Star for sure,"  well Marcus is the same way on defense, making a spectacular play on D that makes everyone say, "wow if he can just develop the rest of his game he'll be an All-Star for sure."

I can't take you seriously if you think Marcus has hit his ceiling at age 22.
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Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2016, 02:16:12 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Because people love young prospects.  Just look at all the Mickey love and how many people are holding out hope in James Young.  It doesn't matter who you are, if you're a young player on the Celtics, there will be tons of people who will become instantly attached to you and believe you can become an All-Star/All-NBA player if just given enough minutes.

With Avery, he's a known quantity at this point.  People have moved on from him developing much more at this point and believe what you see is what you get.  Smart on the other hand, people have yet to accept what we see is his ceiling.

And it also helps that Marcus Smart is to defense what Gerald Green was to offense.  Just like Gerald would break out some crazy highlight reel dunk that makes you say, "wow if he can just develop the rest of his game he'll be an All-Star for sure,"  well Marcus is the same way on defense, making a spectacular play on D that makes everyone say, "wow if he can just develop the rest of his game he'll be an All-Star for sure."

I can't take you seriously if you think Marcus has hit his ceiling at age 22.

Same here. I think people just get incredibly impatient with our players. Smart is younger than a couple of people that will be drafted this year.

Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2016, 02:22:11 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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Because people love young prospects.  Just look at all the Mickey love and how many people are holding out hope in James Young.  It doesn't matter who you are, if you're a young player on the Celtics, there will be tons of people who will become instantly attached to you and believe you can become an All-Star/All-NBA player if just given enough minutes.

With Avery, he's a known quantity at this point.  People have moved on from him developing much more at this point and believe what you see is what you get.  Smart on the other hand, people have yet to accept what we see is his ceiling.

And it also helps that Marcus Smart is to defense what Gerald Green was to offense.  Just like Gerald would break out some crazy highlight reel dunk that makes you say, "wow if he can just develop the rest of his game he'll be an All-Star for sure,"  well Marcus is the same way on defense, making a spectacular play on D that makes everyone say, "wow if he can just develop the rest of his game he'll be an All-Star for sure."

I can't take you seriously if you think Marcus has hit his ceiling at age 22.

Same here. I think people just get incredibly impatient with our players. Smart is younger than a couple of people that will be drafted this year.

Yeah. Like, some people want the 22 year old Hield but not Marcus.  Smh
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

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Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2016, 02:23:35 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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I think the hype regarding Marcus Smart is that he's sort of the Celtic's Draymond. 

He's the guy who gets under opposing players skin, leads by example with effort, effects the game in multiple ways, and generally contributes to a winning culture.

Now Smart's offense hasn't come along yet, but Draymond Green didn't start showing signs of life on offense until his third year in the NBA (when he was 25 years old) and then somehow made a MASSIVE leap offensively this year.

Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2016, 02:26:02 PM »

Offline manl_lui

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I think the hype regarding Marcus Smart is that he's sort of the Celtic's Draymond. 

He's the guy who gets under opposing players skin, leads by example with effort, effects the game in multiple ways, and generally contributes to a winning culture.

Now Smart's offense hasn't come along yet, but Draymond Green didn't start showing signs of life on offense until his third year in the NBA (when he was 25 years old) and then somehow made a MASSIVE leap offensively this year.

wow I actually never really thought of it that way. TP for you. Also nice pointing out Draymond's offensive improvement in year 3 and 4. I think more or less is his offensive usage increase in his 4th year. If Smart makes a significant offensive jump this year, the same could be said about him in year 4.