Author Topic: Trading for Okafor would give us a great trade chip for years to come....  (Read 5718 times)

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Offline The Rondo Show

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Here is a question for all the pro Okafor crowd.  Do you think Durant or any of the long list of free agents next year including Chris Paul and Westbrook, would rather play with Okafor or with a hypothetical combination of any of Porzingis, Ibaka, Jokic, Olynyk frontcourt?  To me the answer is crystal clear.

What? How are we getting any of those three.
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Offline PaulP34

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I don't think they want to play in Boston. Boston needs to find a big time playmaker. Most of these free agents won't even think about coming to Boston because we don't have any reason for them to. Pretty much gotta trade for them and force a team to be here. Its kinda how it is

Offline The Oracle

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Here is a question for all the pro Okafor crowd.  Do you think Durant or any of the long list of free agents next year including Chris Paul and Westbrook, would rather play with Okafor or with a hypothetical combination of any of Porzingis, Ibaka, Jokic, Olynyk frontcourt?  To me the answer is crystal clear.

What? How are we getting any of those three.
In no way was I suggesting that any of them are readily available thus the use of the word hypothetical.  What I am suggesting is that a big man pairing of 2 low maintenance bigs that stretch the floor, can pass and handle the ball and play solid defense will be a much much more attractive destination for the free agent market in 2017.  A high maintenance, post scoring big that clogs the lane and slows the pace (Okafor), who is weak defensively will not be attractive at all to the likes of Westbrook, Durant, Paul etc..

Offline crimson_stallion

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Are you talking about how Okafor's defense sinks the Celtics into the lottery and gives them another draft pick to use as an asset?

LOL

Or how Okafor's development under Stevens might turn him into an anchor of the Celtics for 15 years?

I kid somewhat, but I see Okafor improving the Celtics in the same way that Greg Monroe improved the Bucks.

Nah, less. 

Much less.

Greg Monroe is, and always has been, a better player than Okafor. The only areas where Okafor might have Monroe beat are post scoring and blocks. Outside of that, Monroe is better than Okafor at absolutely everything.

Offline crimson_stallion

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Here is a question for all the pro Okafor crowd.  Do you think Durant or any of the long list of free agents next year including Chris Paul and Westbrook, would rather play with Okafor or with a hypothetical combination of any of Porzingis, Ibaka, Jokic, Olynyk frontcourt?  To me the answer is crystal clear.

What? How are we getting any of those three.
In no way was I suggesting that any of them are readily available thus the use of the word hypothetical.  What I am suggesting is that a big man pairing of 2 low maintenance bigs that stretch the floor, can pass and handle the ball and play solid defense will be a much much more attractive destination for the free agent market in 2017.  A high maintenance, post scoring big that clogs the lane and slows the pace (Okafor), who is weak defensively will not be attractive at all to the likes of Westbrook, Durant, Paul etc..

I tend to agree.

Offline alldaboston

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Are you talking about how Okafor's defense sinks the Celtics into the lottery and gives them another draft pick to use as an asset?

LOL

Or how Okafor's development under Stevens might turn him into an anchor of the Celtics for 15 years?

I kid somewhat, but I see Okafor improving the Celtics in the same way that Greg Monroe improved the Bucks.

Nah, less. 

Much less.

Greg Monroe is, and always has been, a better player than Okafor. The only areas where Okafor might have Monroe beat are post scoring and blocks. Outside of that, Monroe is better than Okafor at absolutely everything.

And yet the Bucks got worse when they got him (and the Pistons got better after they lost him)?

And the Sixers are better without okafor on the floor?

I'm slowly starting to reconsider my stance on this.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Offline mr. dee

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The thing with Okafor is he is a huge upgrade over both KO and Sully. While Big Ja is still limited with his jumpers, I see a potential on extending his range to 3 point line. And he will also be an upgrade just with his size alone. The thing with him on the D is we better keep him disciplined. If both KO and Sully improved their D somehow, I can't see why Jahlil not.

The bad locker room presence is overblown, imo. It's just a result of bad environment for Okafor.

Offline crimson_stallion

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Are you talking about how Okafor's defense sinks the Celtics into the lottery and gives them another draft pick to use as an asset?

LOL

Or how Okafor's development under Stevens might turn him into an anchor of the Celtics for 15 years?

I kid somewhat, but I see Okafor improving the Celtics in the same way that Greg Monroe improved the Bucks.

Nah, less. 

Much less.

Greg Monroe is, and always has been, a better player than Okafor. The only areas where Okafor might have Monroe beat are post scoring and blocks. Outside of that, Monroe is better than Okafor at absolutely everything.

And yet the Bucks got worse when they got him (and the Pistons got better after they lost him)?

And the Sixers are better without okafor on the floor?

I'm slowly starting to reconsider my stance on this.

I don't think it's that simple to be honest.

The Pistons improvement is not something I believe can be attributed to Monroe making the team worst. 

The Pistons made a lot of changes.  They added a quality coach in Van Gundy.  They had a horrible mix in the front court with Drummond/Smith/Monroe - Monroe and Drummond were forced to share the paint, and Smith was forced to chuck jumpers on the perimeter, it was never gong to work.  They replaced Josh Smith with Tobias Harris (who was a much better fit at SF), and replaced Greg Monroe with Marcus Morris(a much better fit next to Drummond).  They replaced the inefficient and defensively terrible Jennings with a far superior Reggie Jackson.  Caldwell Pope and Drummond both made big improvements.  There was a LOT that changed in Detroit which all combined to make them improve so much.

As for the Bucks, Monroe was arguably their best player this year and he I don't think you can blame him for their decline.  HE was, again, a poor fit.  Playing Monroe and Parker meant you had zero rim protection and poor floor spacing (Parker has shot horribly from three since he entered the league) while combining Monroe with Henson meant absolutely no floor stretching at all.  Giannis and Carter-Wiliams both shot horrible from outside, which meant Middleton was pretty much the Buck's only legit three point threat.

In both cases Monroe was a poor fit, and that kinda outlines one of the issues with Monroe - he's a tough guy to fit around because he needs to have a cerain type of situation in order for your team to really excel.  You need to have him alongside a big man who is mobile and defensively versatile, and can also stretch the floor. 

Boston fits that description better then Detroit or Milwaukee (because Olynyk and Jerebko would probably fit well with Monroe) but it's still not optimal.  Optimal would be to have him playing alongside somebody like Serge Ibaka, Brendon Ingram (if he can bulk up), Thadeous Young, Draymond Green, etc.

Okafor is going to suffer from that same problem, only it'll be worse because Monroe actually isn't a terrible defensive player like Okafor is (just a very average one), and actually has a moderately capable of midrange jumper.  He's also a very good rebounder (which Okafor is not) so he does at the very least take care of business in that regard.  He's also a much better passer then Okafor, which would make him an easier fit in just about any system.

I think Okafor will improve his jumper and his passing ability (as he seems to have shown some flashes of both) so he can probably get to Greg Monroe's level on those areas in time. 

What I question is whether he's ever going to get to Greg Monroe's level as a defender or as a rebounder, because Monroe was always passable defensive player and a very good rebounder - even as a 20 year old rookie.  Okafor's defence right now statistically ranks bottom 3 in the NBA at his position, and his rebounding is quite a bit below average for a center.  Rebounding is a talent that usually translates very well from the college game (e.g. Randle, Sully) so his poor rebounding numbers admittedly do concern me a lot.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 03:11:28 AM by crimson_stallion »

Offline crimson_stallion

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The thing with Okafor is he is a huge upgrade over both KO and Sully. While Big Ja is still limited with his jumpers, I see a potential on extending his range to 3 point line. And he will also be an upgrade just with his size alone. The thing with him on the D is we better keep him disciplined. If both KO and Sully improved their D somehow, I can't see why Jahlil not.

The bad locker room presence is overblown, imo. It's just a result of bad environment for Okafor.

Pretty much every single advanced stat on the planet would very strongly disagree with that statement. 

Sully and Olynyk are both advanced stat studs, while Okafor's advanced stats suggest he hurts his team more than just about any other center in the NBA.

The only thing Okafor does better then Sully is post scoring and not running out of breath - Sully is better at literally every single other aspect of the game.

The only thing he does better then Olynyk is post scoring.  Maybe rebounding too, but not by very much.  Olynyk is better at everything else.

Offline TheBig3

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Offline crimcartel

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Some people need to take a step back and realize okafor is a nearly complete offensive player... he can dribble drive... shoot from 15 feet in... he's physical... he was JUST A ROOKIE.. he's only going to get better... what I love most is he uses the backboard when shooting which is grounded in fundamentals.... you have to trade #3 pick for him.. he will push this team up another level

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK472jWIn7k


I mean in this video he is bodying up cousins for goodness sake...

Offline Smokeeye123

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It blows my mind some people dont want us to trade for okafor because he needs work defensively. Offensively hes just what we need. A big to run the floor, lay it in, and make moves for himself. Especially when we are so starved for offense on our team and the rest of our team is built around defense. He'll give us some balance! Plus this is only his second season and he will surely improve.

Offline crimcartel

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Head to head vs towns and he killed him.... ya'll are bugging man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20VGdpFAhCM

Offline jambr380

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The thing with Okafor is he is a huge upgrade over both KO and Sully. While Big Ja is still limited with his jumpers, I see a potential on extending his range to 3 point line. And he will also be an upgrade just with his size alone. The thing with him on the D is we better keep him disciplined. If both KO and Sully improved their D somehow, I can't see why Jahlil not.

The bad locker room presence is overblown, imo. It's just a result of bad environment for Okafor.

Nope, Okafor is obviously as good as he is ever going to get as a 20 year old. There is no way he can improve upon any aspect of his game. It is proven because many people on CB say so.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 10:33:53 AM by jambr380 »

Offline colincb

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It blows my mind some people dont want us to trade for okafor because he needs work defensively. Offensively hes just what we need. A big to run the floor, lay it in, and make moves for himself. Especially when we are so starved for offense on our team and the rest of our team is built around defense. He'll give us some balance! Plus this is only his second season and he will surely improve.

He doesn't exactly need work defensively. He's somewhere between Al Jefferson and Andrea Bargnani defensively which is akin to being between Kendrick Perkins and Omer Asik offensively. IOW, there ain't no hope with his reaction time being a tad faster than a real statue, but slower than a living one.