A solid way to identify Marcus Smart's current value...

[IDreamCeltics]

Is to watch where Gary Payton II is drafted this year as the two guards are extremely similar. 

From a statistical standpoint:  Payton Shot higher percentages across the board in College (with the exception of free throws) but Smart was better at drawing fouls.  Payton was the better rebounder, both were exceptional at creating turnovers averaging close to three steals a game each. Payton had a better A/To ratio and showed a tighter handle and the ability to get into the lane at will.  Payton also has the advantage scoring at the rim scoring 1.33 ppa within 2 feet of the rim.

I'm not saying Payton will end up being the same player as Marcus Smart, but what I am saying is that a team could draft him and play him 18 minutes a game this year and get similar production to what we've seen Smart bring to the table the last two years. 

Here's Payton putting up 20 pts 17 rebounds and 2 blks on #3 ranked Cal.  Payton takes it at both Jaylen Brown and Ivan Rabb multiple times in this game.

https://youtu.be/E3ccSyYlweU

Here's Payton's 13-8-7 against #2 ranked Kansas last year.  You'll see the pick and pop run, his absurd athleticism, and some typical Payton rebounding.

https://youtu.be/x_XVLq1kpjs

[Ogaju]

you cant do that because it is not the same context. Different draft, different players, different context. You are basically comparing apples and oranges.

[alldaboston]

I didn't see much similarity between them.

[Ilikesports17]

Not to mention Payton is Older than Marcus Smart.

And by older I don't mean, he's older than smart was when smart got drafted I mean Marcus smart is a younger human being than Gary Payton ii.

[loco_91]

They're in a similar mold, but Smart is better at basically everything. Payton is a good defensive prospect but nowhere near the outlier that Smart was, and offensively he's got less room for growth because of his age. That said, Payton seems a bit underrated and I won't be surprised if he goes in the late first.

[Surferdad]

They're in a similar mold, but Smart is better at basically everything. Payton is a good defensive prospect but nowhere near the outlier that Smart was, and offensively he's got less room for growth because of his age. That said, Payton seems a bit underrated and I won't be surprised if he goes in the late first.

Bingo.  Smart is a superior defender, one of the best in the NBA.

[IDreamCeltics]

They're in a similar mold, but Smart is better at basically everything. Payton is a good defensive prospect but nowhere near the outlier that Smart was, and offensively he's got less room for growth because of his age. That said, Payton seems a bit underrated and I won't be surprised if he goes in the late first.

Bingo.  Smart is a superior defender, one of the best in the NBA.

How is he superior?

[Surferdad]

They're in a similar mold, but Smart is better at basically everything. Payton is a good defensive prospect but nowhere near the outlier that Smart was, and offensively he's got less room for growth because of his age. That said, Payton seems a bit underrated and I won't be surprised if he goes in the late first.

Bingo.  Smart is a superior defender, one of the best in the NBA.

How is he superior?

He can guard at least 3 positions (PG, SG, SF).  He is a pest, constantly sticking his hands in.  He dives for loose balls, and he a possibly the best weak-side helper on the team.

[IDreamCeltics]

you cant do that because it is not the same context. Different draft, different players, different context. You are basically comparing apples and oranges.

My point is that if Marcus were in this draft and you wanted to draft a defensive point guard you'd pick between Gary Payton II and Marcus Smart and it would be a tough decision because their skill-sets are so similar.

Traveling further along that line of thought, if Gary Payton II goes say 22nd in this draft, I think that's a fairly good indicator of what Marcus Smart's value is currently because Gary Payton II is likely to offer a reasonable facsimile of Smart's defensive prowess with similar offensive production.

If Smart comes out this year and shows marked offensive improvement then you can throw the comparison out the window, but at the moment I think the two guards are extremely similar in terms of skills they bring to a team.

[Ilikesports17]

Kris's Dunn should serve as a similar indicator for terry roziers value

[Ilikesports17]

you cant do that because it is not the same context. Different draft, different players, different context. You are basically comparing apples and oranges.

My point is that if Marcus were in this draft and you wanted to draft a defensive point guard you'd pick between Gary Payton II and Marcus Smart and it would be a tough decision because their skill-sets are so similar.

Traveling further along that line of thought, if Gary Payton II goes say 22nd in this draft, I think that's a fairly good indicator of what Marcus Smart's value is currently because Gary Payton II is likely to offer a reasonable facsimile of Smart's defensive prowess with similar offensive production.

If Smart comes out this year and shows marked offensive improvement then you can throw the comparison out the window, but at the moment I think the two guards are extremely similar in terms of skills they bring to a team.

This is absurd.

Kay Felder should give us a good idea of Isaiah Thomas's value.

[jpotter33]

you cant do that because it is not the same context. Different draft, different players, different context. You are basically comparing apples and oranges.

My point is that if Marcus were in this draft and you wanted to draft a defensive point guard you'd pick between Gary Payton II and Marcus Smart and it would be a tough decision because their skill-sets are so similar.

Traveling further along that line of thought, if Gary Payton II goes say 22nd in this draft, I think that's a fairly good indicator of what Marcus Smart's value is currently because Gary Payton II is likely to offer a reasonable facsimile of Smart's defensive prowess with similar offensive production.

If Smart comes out this year and shows marked offensive improvement then you can throw the comparison out the window, but at the moment I think the two guards are extremely similar in terms of skills they bring to a team.

No. No, they are not. Smart went 6th in a much better draft, and GPIII might not even be picked in the first round of a much weaker draft. I'm not seeing how we're supposed to compare these guys right now.

[Csfan1984]

More like a solid way to troll people. They aren't the same and Smart has proven he can play in the NBA.

[alldaboston]

More like a solid way to troll people. They aren't the same and Smart has proven he can play in the NBA.

Basically. Sounds like hate for Marcus more than anything.

[IDreamCeltics]

you cant do that because it is not the same context. Different draft, different players, different context. You are basically comparing apples and oranges.

My point is that if Marcus were in this draft and you wanted to draft a defensive point guard you'd pick between Gary Payton II and Marcus Smart and it would be a tough decision because their skill-sets are so similar.

Traveling further along that line of thought, if Gary Payton II goes say 22nd in this draft, I think that's a fairly good indicator of what Marcus Smart's value is currently because Gary Payton II is likely to offer a reasonable facsimile of Smart's defensive prowess with similar offensive production.

If Smart comes out this year and shows marked offensive improvement then you can throw the comparison out the window, but at the moment I think the two guards are extremely similar in terms of skills they bring to a team.

No. No, they are not. Smart went 6th in a much better draft, and GPIII might not even be picked in the first round of a much weaker draft. I'm not seeing how we're supposed to compare these guys right now.

Well I recommend you start by looking at their two years of stats compiled playing NCAA basketball, or watch both players play.  Sorry I don't know how to make a good table for the comparison but I'll do my best.

College Stats:

            G    MP   FG% 2P% 3P% FTA FT% TRB  AST  STL  BLK  TO   PTS
Payton 
Year 1   31/36.3/.485/.558/.293/3.2/.663/7.5/  3.2  /3.1/  1.2 /1.9/13.4
Year 2   32/34.3/.486/.520/.314/3.8/.642/7.8/  5.0 /2.5/   0.5/ 2.3/16.0

Smart
Year 1  33/33.5/.404/.465/.290/6.5/.777/5.8/  4.2 /3.0/    0.7/3.4/15.4
Year 2  31/32.7/.422/.514/.299/8.1/.728/5.9/  4.8/2.9/     0.6/2.6/18.0

So some interesting notes.  Payton averaged 1.2 blocks per game his junior year because he played a lot of his minutes at the forward spots for Oregon State.  One of Smart's best skills in college was his ability to draw fouls, a skill that has not translated to the NBA yet.   His rebounding and defense HAVE translated quite well, unfortunately so have his low efficiency scoring numbers. 

Payton rates out as a more efficient scorer from everywhere but the free throw line.  He's the better rebounder and puts up similar defensive statistics.  Rebounding and defense are two skills that tend to translate well from college to the NBA.

The two are obviously not identical, but they will fill the same role in the NBA as defensive guards.  Much has been made about Smart's ability to guard three positions, but I would propose to you that Payton showed that same ability in college playing the 1-4 and while the smaller player of the two he's the better athlete.

BTW I'm not trolling Smart, I actually like him quite a bit.  I'm just trying to show that from a value standpoint in the NBA you can often get a guard in the mid-late first round with a similar skillset.  This thread is more a reflection of my appreciation for Gary Payton II's underrated basketball skills than any knock on Smart.