Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....

[clevelandceltic]

i wonder why Bender is in such a hurry to bolt the NBA?  He clearly knows he is not ready physically.   Does he enjoy riding the bench?

Just because you might get drafted in a high position (in a weak draft 3-10), it is not the best reason to declare

Porzingis stayed an extra year to prepare, and it was a smart move

Maybe Bender is afraid if he stays back another year, and rides the bench again, his stock will plummet

Anyways , he is going to workout for the Celts soon. Lets see what Danny/CBS thinks

The reason I find your argument flawed is because you like to give Buddy all this hype about how much of a worker he is, how great his shot is blah blah blah but you never apply that argument to any other player. It always Buddy is great and no one else gets the benefit of the doubt. I cant wait til the Warriors lose so we can get off this BS about shooting is the only thing that matters. Buddy offers very little besides shooting. Show me where his value is vs the top 4 teams still playing cus I dont see him ever coming close to a player that can take this team to another level.

[BitterJim]

i wonder why Bender is in such a hurry to bolt the NBA?  He clearly knows he is not ready physically.   Does he enjoy riding the bench?

Just because you might get drafted in a high position (in a weak draft 3-10), it is not the best reason to declare

Porzingis stayed an extra year to prepare, and it was a smart move

Maybe Bender is afraid if he stays back another year, and rides the bench again, his stock will plummet

Anyways , he is going to workout for the Celts soon. Lets see what Danny/CBS thinks

If you're a consensus top lottery pick, you go into the draft.  End of story.  Doubly so when the following year's draft is supposed to be much stronger.

Porzingis is a completely different case.  He was projected as a late-lottery to mid-first round pick in 2014, waiting a year made sense for him if he wanted to gamble on himself.

It's like criticizing a player for taking a max contract in RFA when he could just sign the qualifying offer and play for next to nothing next year, but then maybe get a max contract afterward (and in this case, the max contracts are worth the same amount).  It's a nonsensical argument.

You've raised some legitimate concerns about Bender in the past, but this is just grasping at straws

[crimson_stallion]

What's important to keep in mind is just how young he is. He doesn't turn 19 until just before the draft making him one of the youngest prospects in the draft. Players his size usually take longer to mature physically and really blossom, so there is a lot to be optimistic about moving forward.

What is your analysis besides that?

No.  He doesn't turn 19 until November 17.  He will still be 18 when the NBA season starts.

I think the point was that he does NOT turn 19 before the draft.

The question is can this player play based upon the negatives in this scouting report?

Ahh, gotcha. 

You know, when people ask how my kids are doing I'm going to start saying "too early to tell.  She's only 12.  Sure, she gets pushed around right now and technically she doesn't have an NBA skill yet... but just you wait!"  LOL

Also, interesting side note.  Danny is overseas and advertising about Bender on Twitter.  This is excellent.  Danny can obviously see that the kid can't play a lick.  Hard sell, Danny.

Bender plays in Israel not Croatia.

Triboy would you take him based on these negatives?

All i can say is,  he has ways to go. Especially needing to add weight/strength

He has zero mid range game.  No post moves except using his length to his advantage which won't fly in the NBA.  Can shoot but nothing special. Can drive in using either hand but half the time can't make it all the way to the basket.  Bc his touch is average when he tosses up a floater all you want to do is cover your eyes and hope for the best.

I have nothing against taking projects but not at #3 or even 4-10.   

Why not lessen the risk and take Zhou Qi or Thon Maker at 16?  Take a player with less risk but that is good with the 3rd pick.   At least Murray is a deadly shooter.  Brown has world class athleticism (drive in, defend) etc.

So you wouldnt take him based on this scouting report?

Not sure what you're fishing for, but none of this is based strictly on a scouting report.  We're using our eyes, watching basketball.  The scouting report didn't alter my opinion.  Can't speak for triboy.

Im not fishing for anything, Im just looking for feedback. Here is the ironic thing. That scouting report was for Prozingas. Its amazing how similar of a description was to Bender. The 1st report was a report for Prozingas at 18 the 2nd at 19. Point being despite all the issues listed in that report, he went 4th and played well. That's not to say that Bender will be him but it means that players can grow and what they are today does not mean that's who they will be in 2 years.

Right.  So I called it exactly.  The scouting report you were fishing with didn't impact us at all.  We simply watched the tape and concur that Bender isn't an NBA caliber player.  The scouting report could've been for any 1 of 100 seven-footers I've seen over the years.  Lohaus thru Bargnani.  Like I said earlier, I don't always agree with scouts and frankly don't put a lot of stock internet mocks.  History has proven that NBA scouts aren't very good at this.

example, my big board is
1. ingram
2. simmons
3. murray
4. valentine
5. dunn
6. poeltl
...
20. bender

Its not a matter of fishing its a matter of pointing out that players grow and develop over time. Despite that report Prozingas turned out pretty well. Half the players you mentioned took quite a while to develop.

The problem I have is not that people like Bender - it's that people are just creating ridiculously unrealistic expectations of him.

There are some out there who are saying that they think Bender has the tools to become a very nice NBA player.  I don't disagree with that.  I don't think it's a GIVEN that he'll become one, but he certainly has shown flashes of the type of versatile talent set that could make him a good NBA player.

The problem I have is that there are guys out there who are projecting Bender as a potential superstar and (even worse) a potential franchise player, and personally I think that is utterly ridiculous. 

The other thing that I find frustrating is that so many of the Bender fans refuse to even acknowledge how high the risk on this kid is.  People talk about him as if he's a no brainer at #3 and close to a sure-fire star.  He's a huge gamble. 

[LooseCannon]

I don't think he is a sure fire star.  I just think he has more star potential than some of the other names being discussed, even if he has less go-to scorer potential.

[Tr1boy]

What's important to keep in mind is just how young he is. He doesn't turn 19 until just before the draft making him one of the youngest prospects in the draft. Players his size usually take longer to mature physically and really blossom, so there is a lot to be optimistic about moving forward.

What is your analysis besides that?

No.  He doesn't turn 19 until November 17.  He will still be 18 when the NBA season starts.

I think the point was that he does NOT turn 19 before the draft.

The question is can this player play based upon the negatives in this scouting report?

Ahh, gotcha. 

You know, when people ask how my kids are doing I'm going to start saying "too early to tell.  She's only 12.  Sure, she gets pushed around right now and technically she doesn't have an NBA skill yet... but just you wait!"  LOL

Also, interesting side note.  Danny is overseas and advertising about Bender on Twitter.  This is excellent.  Danny can obviously see that the kid can't play a lick.  Hard sell, Danny.

Bender plays in Israel not Croatia.

Triboy would you take him based on these negatives?

All i can say is,  he has ways to go. Especially needing to add weight/strength

He has zero mid range game.  No post moves except using his length to his advantage which won't fly in the NBA.  Can shoot but nothing special. Can drive in using either hand but half the time can't make it all the way to the basket.  Bc his touch is average when he tosses up a floater all you want to do is cover your eyes and hope for the best.

I have nothing against taking projects but not at #3 or even 4-10.   

Why not lessen the risk and take Zhou Qi or Thon Maker at 16?  Take a player with less risk but that is good with the 3rd pick.   At least Murray is a deadly shooter.  Brown has world class athleticism (drive in, defend) etc.

So you wouldnt take him based on this scouting report?

Not sure what you're fishing for, but none of this is based strictly on a scouting report.  We're using our eyes, watching basketball.  The scouting report didn't alter my opinion.  Can't speak for triboy.

Im not fishing for anything, Im just looking for feedback. Here is the ironic thing. That scouting report was for Prozingas. Its amazing how similar of a description was to Bender. The 1st report was a report for Prozingas at 18 the 2nd at 19. Point being despite all the issues listed in that report, he went 4th and played well. That's not to say that Bender will be him but it means that players can grow and what they are today does not mean that's who they will be in 2 years.

Right.  So I called it exactly.  The scouting report you were fishing with didn't impact us at all.  We simply watched the tape and concur that Bender isn't an NBA caliber player.  The scouting report could've been for any 1 of 100 seven-footers I've seen over the years.  Lohaus thru Bargnani.  Like I said earlier, I don't always agree with scouts and frankly don't put a lot of stock internet mocks.  History has proven that NBA scouts aren't very good at this.

example, my big board is
1. ingram
2. simmons
3. murray
4. valentine
5. dunn
6. poeltl
...
20. bender

Its not a matter of fishing its a matter of pointing out that players grow and develop over time. Despite that report Prozingas turned out pretty well. Half the players you mentioned took quite a while to develop.

The problem I have is not that people like Bender - it's that people are just creating ridiculously unrealistic expectations of him.

There are some out there who are saying that they think Bender has the tools to become a very nice NBA player.  I don't disagree with that.  I don't think it's a GIVEN that he'll become one, but he certainly has shown flashes of the type of versatile talent set that could make him a good NBA player.

The problem I have is that there are guys out there who are projecting Bender as a potential superstar and (even worse) a potential franchise player, and personally I think that is utterly ridiculous. 

The other thing that I find frustrating is that so many of the Bender fans refuse to even acknowledge how high the risk on this kid is.  People talk about him as if he's a no brainer at #3 and close to a sure-fire star.  He's a huge gamble.

Good points.

[Celtics4ever]

I watched the vids,  I saw a kid who is mobile who is weak and who can't jump to save his life.  Porzingas max vertical is more than 11" over Bender's.    He has a good motor, but a lot of that movement was wasted quite frankly, because of his physical deficits.   

This something he could improve but guys who can jump, can jump.  Vertical jump is hard to improve.   Muscle is easier to gain than power, because power takes changing muscle fiber type, which are a finite amount than a person can change.   If a guy gets good gains in their vertical they had the fast twitch fibers in there to begin with.   Not seeing that with the endomorphic build of Bender.

It happens every year guys falling for potential and hype.   Some time it works and sometimes it does not.

[clevelandceltic]

Every year people fall for potential and hype? Ok then who are your top 2 players Heild and Valentine

[mmmmm]

What's important to keep in mind is just how young he is. He doesn't turn 19 until just before the draft making him one of the youngest prospects in the draft. Players his size usually take longer to mature physically and really blossom, so there is a lot to be optimistic about moving forward.

What is your analysis besides that?

No.  He doesn't turn 19 until November 17.  He will still be 18 when the NBA season starts.

I think the point was that he does NOT turn 19 before the draft.

The question is can this player play based upon the negatives in this scouting report?

Which particular scouting report do you mean by "this"? 

If you are asking me my opinion of the 'Weaknesses' video that Triboy16 posted to start this thread, I think it is (a) extremely out of date and (b) out of context unless accompanied by Schmidt's correlated 'Strengths' video.

I've watched a lot of Bender footage now and I'm pretty confident that he not only deserves the #3 ranking in this draft, but by a wide margin over #4.    I see not only a very intriguing upside, but also a pretty solid 'floor'.  He won't be a total bust like a Darko.  He's at the very least going to be a rotation player and his upside is way, way higher than that.

That said, I'm comfortable with Danny making the final call based on having even more information than I have.   Seeing a player live in a work out is far more informative than anything else.

[clevelandceltic]

What's important to keep in mind is just how young he is. He doesn't turn 19 until just before the draft making him one of the youngest prospects in the draft. Players his size usually take longer to mature physically and really blossom, so there is a lot to be optimistic about moving forward.

What is your analysis besides that?

No.  He doesn't turn 19 until November 17.  He will still be 18 when the NBA season starts.

I think the point was that he does NOT turn 19 before the draft.

The question is can this player play based upon the negatives in this scouting report?

Which particular scouting report do you mean by "this"? 

If you are asking me my opinion of the 'Weaknesses' video that Triboy16 posted to start this thread, I think it is (a) extremely out of date and (b) out of context unless accompanied by Schmidt's correlated 'Strengths' video.

I've watched a lot of Bender footage now and I'm pretty confident that he not only deserves the #3 ranking in this draft, but by a wide margin over #4.    I see not only a very intriguing upside, but also a pretty solid 'floor'.  He won't be a total bust like a Darko.  He's at the very least going to be a rotation player and his upside is way, way higher than that.

That said, I'm comfortable with Danny making the final call based on having even more information than I have.   Seeing a player live in a work out is far more informative than anything else.

The reason I was asking about the scouting report is because so many people are reacting to what he is now and not looking at what he might be. Many are using scouting reports to say see. See this is what Im talking about. The scouting report that I was asking you about was actually the report for Prozingas the two years prior to him playing in the NBA. As you can see in those reports, Prozingas had many of the same issues Bender currently has. This is not to say Bender will be Prozingas but to simply say that players grow and change over time and that the warts on Bender arent a death sentence.