Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....

[PickNRoll]

Draftexpress weakness scouting video below.    We are not only talking about lack of strength problems here.     Has no post game to speak of.    Lacks explosiveness.   takes a while before shooting the ball  (if you think Jerebko is slow..).    Jack of all trades type on both ends.   Lacks a reliable shooting touch.    Imo does not look has reliable in a half court game (critical in the 4th quarter)

again yes lack of strength is a key issue.  But this guy is not some super "skilled" player many here think he is.  He is no dirk , thats for sure.   

Even if this clip below does not "sway" your overall thinking about bender, just be aware

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhREj9q-UpM

All legitimate concerns. TP.

But you are wasting your time. The folks on this board who are intent on Ainge wasting the best Celtics draft pick in 20 years on, to be as kind as possible, an uber-project that will take at least five years to contribute a thing to this club with his many flaws and his badly underdeveloped game are never going to admit they are wrong.

That's the beauty of the Internet.

Now, we just have to hope that Ainge hasn't lost his mind entirely.

And let's be clear....you want to trade the "best Celtic draft pick in 20 years on" for Okafur. That really doesn't sound like such a great draft pick.

A player with one year under his belt in the NBA, demonstrated offensive talent and growth potential is ALWAYS going to be a better bet than an Euro with a badly underdeveloped game.

Always.

Exactly right.  Why gamble on the hope that Bender develops an NBA skill when Okafor has already demonstrated elite offensive skill?

[LooseCannon]

Allow me to be philosophical for a sec.  I'm leery of evaluating a prospect this way.  "If he just gets better at x and y he could make a real impact".  Or, "we haven't seen him do it yet, but the potential is there".  In my experience, some things can be improved (like conditioning), but what you see is mostly what you get.  Many of the most important things are innate.

The area where this sort of language concerns me the most is when a player is described as being a bad defender who has the tools to be a good defender.

[Big333223]

Allow me to be philosophical for a sec.  I'm leery of evaluating a prospect this way.  "If he just gets better at x and y he could make a real impact".  Or, "we haven't seen him do it yet, but the potential is there".  In my experience, some things can be improved (like conditioning), but what you see is mostly what you get.  Many of the most important things are innate.

The area where this sort of language concerns me the most is when a player is described as being a bad defender who has the tools to be a good defender.

Those two posts started out sounding like they were critiques of Bender but wound up sounding like critiques of Okafor.

Anyway, I'm not sure how else one might evaluate 18, 19, and 20 year old kids. Saying "what you see is what you get" is not just wrong it's grossly wrong. No one ever gets drafted fully formed. Okafor was supposed to be more "NBA ready" than Towns but Towns has proven to be more NBA ready and still has a higher upside. These guys get better in between draft day and preseason, let alone the improvements they make when they get into the league.

The real question should be, "Does this guy have the skills to improve on and the temperament to put in the work?"

[clevelandceltic]

Allow me to be philosophical for a sec.  I'm leery of evaluating a prospect this way.  "If he just gets better at x and y he could make a real impact".  Or, "we haven't seen him do it yet, but the potential is there".  In my experience, some things can be improved (like conditioning), but what you see is mostly what you get.  Many of the most important things are innate. Take this description from DraftExpress:

"Shows tantalizing talent and an incredibly high skill-level for a 7-footer. Has great size, a nice frame, long arms and solid mobility for his position. Not an athletic freak, but very coordinated. Fluid, yet not overly explosive, particularly around the rim. Amazing perimeter shooter who can create his own shot with ease, but still has a ways to go in terms of learning how to play winning basketball. A mediocre rebounder and defender who is not all that efficient offensively. Still has considerable upside to continue to develop."

That sounds enough like Bender to me.  It's actually Andrea Bargnani.  So what's the difference between Bargnani and Nowitzki or Bender and Nowitzki?  I don't know, but it's obvious if you watch a couple hours of tape.  You don't watch teenage Dirk and think, "wow, he has a long ways to go".  You don't look at 18 year old Bird and think, "if he was just a little stronger" (lol) -- he's already putting up 30 and 15 every game.  When I watch Bender I think, "backup energy guy?"

It's not infallible and just an opinion.  e.g. I didn't think Towns would be a first tier center in the league.  I thought solid starter in a couple years.  It looks like I was wrong.  We didn't see everything he had to offer at KY.

Im going to get a little off track here and talk about your Towns comment. I first saw Towns at 17 in the Nike Hoop Summit. He was not the best player there but he had alot of really good tools. The big knock on him at that time was that he liked to hang out one the perimeter too much. After seeming him the following year in the Nike Hoop Summit, I told a friend of mine that although the 2014 class was supposed to be really good this Towns kid was going to be the top pick. Throughout that year, everyone talked about Okafor because Towns wasnt putting up numbers. It wasnt til late that people began to talk about him as the top pick.

I say all of this not to say Im an expert or anything like that. I bring this up because like I have said earlier in this trend, you have to look at where a player was and where they are now and do they have skills that are NBA skills. I dont see Towns in this kid at all HOWEVER, I do see a number of skills that will help him be a good NBA player.

I read a report that Bender had horrible shooting mechanics during the Jordan Brand Game in 2013. A report 2 years later says that his mechanics are greatly improved. What that says to me is that he works on his game. The kid is 18. He isnt a finished product. I think he has a chance to be fairly good from what I have seen so far.

[Tr1boy]

Allow me to be philosophical for a sec.  I'm leery of evaluating a prospect this way.  "If he just gets better at x and y he could make a real impact".  Or, "we haven't seen him do it yet, but the potential is there".  In my experience, some things can be improved (like conditioning), but what you see is mostly what you get.  Many of the most important things are innate. Take this description from DraftExpress:

"Shows tantalizing talent and an incredibly high skill-level for a 7-footer. Has great size, a nice frame, long arms and solid mobility for his position. Not an athletic freak, but very coordinated. Fluid, yet not overly explosive, particularly around the rim. Amazing perimeter shooter who can create his own shot with ease, but still has a ways to go in terms of learning how to play winning basketball. A mediocre rebounder and defender who is not all that efficient offensively. Still has considerable upside to continue to develop."

That sounds enough like Bender to me.  It's actually Andrea Bargnani.  So what's the difference between Bargnani and Nowitzki or Bender and Nowitzki?  I don't know, but it's obvious if you watch a couple hours of tape.  You don't watch teenage Dirk and think, "wow, he has a long ways to go".  You don't look at 18 year old Bird and think, "if he was just a little stronger" (lol) -- he's already putting up 30 and 15 every game.  When I watch Bender I think, "backup energy guy?"

It's not infallible and just an opinion.  e.g. I didn't think Towns would be a first tier center in the league.  I thought solid starter in a couple years.  It looks like I was wrong.  We didn't see everything he had to offer at KY.

Im going to get a little off track here and talk about your Towns comment. I first saw Towns at 17 in the Nike Hoop Summit. He was not the best player there but he had alot of really good tools. The big knock on him at that time was that he liked to hang out one the perimeter too much. After seeming him the following year in the Nike Hoop Summit, I told a friend of mine that although the 2014 class was supposed to be really good this Towns kid was going to be the top pick. Throughout that year, everyone talked about Okafor because Towns wasnt putting up numbers. It wasnt til late that people began to talk about him as the top pick.

I say all of this not to say Im an expert or anything like that. I bring this up because like I have said earlier in this trend, you have to look at where a player was and where they are now and do they have skills that are NBA skills. I dont see Towns in this kid at all HOWEVER, I do see a number of skills that will help him be a good NBA player.

I read a report that Bender had horrible shooting mechanics during the Jordan Brand Game in 2013. A report 2 years later says that his mechanics are greatly improved. What that says to me is that he works on his game. The kid is 18. He isnt a finished product. I think he has a chance to be fairly good from what I have seen so far.

Still slow. Jerebko slow. Unless you are pretty open, you won't able to get a comfortable shot off

Bc of this mechanical shooting method he can't pull off the dribble , stop and pop (would be a serious weapon for a guy his height) .

Opposing teams gameplan on bender would be to contest the jump shot and/or clog the lane to prevent him getting all the way to the basket

[Eddie20]

Allow me to be philosophical for a sec.  I'm leery of evaluating a prospect this way.  "If he just gets better at x and y he could make a real impact".  Or, "we haven't seen him do it yet, but the potential is there".  In my experience, some things can be improved (like conditioning), but what you see is mostly what you get.  Many of the most important things are innate. Take this description from DraftExpress:

"Shows tantalizing talent and an incredibly high skill-level for a 7-footer. Has great size, a nice frame, long arms and solid mobility for his position. Not an athletic freak, but very coordinated. Fluid, yet not overly explosive, particularly around the rim. Amazing perimeter shooter who can create his own shot with ease, but still has a ways to go in terms of learning how to play winning basketball. A mediocre rebounder and defender who is not all that efficient offensively. Still has considerable upside to continue to develop."

That sounds enough like Bender to me.  It's actually Andrea Bargnani.  So what's the difference between Bargnani and Nowitzki or Bender and Nowitzki?  I don't know, but it's obvious if you watch a couple hours of tape.  You don't watch teenage Dirk and think, "wow, he has a long ways to go".  You don't look at 18 year old Bird and think, "if he was just a little stronger" (lol) -- he's already putting up 30 and 15 every game.  When I watch Bender I think, "backup energy guy?"

It's not infallible and just an opinion.  e.g. I didn't think Towns would be a first tier center in the league.  I thought solid starter in a couple years.  It looks like I was wrong.  We didn't see everything he had to offer at KY.

Im going to get a little off track here and talk about your Towns comment. I first saw Towns at 17 in the Nike Hoop Summit. He was not the best player there but he had alot of really good tools. The big knock on him at that time was that he liked to hang out one the perimeter too much. After seeming him the following year in the Nike Hoop Summit, I told a friend of mine that although the 2014 class was supposed to be really good this Towns kid was going to be the top pick. Throughout that year, everyone talked about Okafor because Towns wasnt putting up numbers. It wasnt til late that people began to talk about him as the top pick.

I say all of this not to say Im an expert or anything like that. I bring this up because like I have said earlier in this trend, you have to look at where a player was and where they are now and do they have skills that are NBA skills. I dont see Towns in this kid at all HOWEVER, I do see a number of skills that will help him be a good NBA player.

I read a report that Bender had horrible shooting mechanics during the Jordan Brand Game in 2013. A report 2 years later says that his mechanics are greatly improved. What that says to me is that he works on his game. The kid is 18. He isnt a finished product. I think he has a chance to be fairly good from what I have seen so far.

Still slow. Jerebko slow. Unless you are pretty open, you won't able to get a comfortable shot off

This opinion seems outdated. You might want to consider viewing his shooting (both form and quickness) in this video starting at 2 min.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_gKIJ9vSYI

[Evantime34]

Allow me to be philosophical for a sec.  I'm leery of evaluating a prospect this way.  "If he just gets better at x and y he could make a real impact".  Or, "we haven't seen him do it yet, but the potential is there".  In my experience, some things can be improved (like conditioning), but what you see is mostly what you get.  Many of the most important things are innate. Take this description from DraftExpress:

"Shows tantalizing talent and an incredibly high skill-level for a 7-footer. Has great size, a nice frame, long arms and solid mobility for his position. Not an athletic freak, but very coordinated. Fluid, yet not overly explosive, particularly around the rim. Amazing perimeter shooter who can create his own shot with ease, but still has a ways to go in terms of learning how to play winning basketball. A mediocre rebounder and defender who is not all that efficient offensively. Still has considerable upside to continue to develop."

That sounds enough like Bender to me.  It's actually Andrea Bargnani.  So what's the difference between Bargnani and Nowitzki or Bender and Nowitzki?  I don't know, but it's obvious if you watch a couple hours of tape.  You don't watch teenage Dirk and think, "wow, he has a long ways to go".  You don't look at 18 year old Bird and think, "if he was just a little stronger" (lol) -- he's already putting up 30 and 15 every game.  When I watch Bender I think, "backup energy guy?"

It's not infallible and just an opinion.  e.g. I didn't think Towns would be a first tier center in the league.  I thought solid starter in a couple years.  It looks like I was wrong.  We didn't see everything he had to offer at KY.

Im going to get a little off track here and talk about your Towns comment. I first saw Towns at 17 in the Nike Hoop Summit. He was not the best player there but he had alot of really good tools. The big knock on him at that time was that he liked to hang out one the perimeter too much. After seeming him the following year in the Nike Hoop Summit, I told a friend of mine that although the 2014 class was supposed to be really good this Towns kid was going to be the top pick. Throughout that year, everyone talked about Okafor because Towns wasnt putting up numbers. It wasnt til late that people began to talk about him as the top pick.

I say all of this not to say Im an expert or anything like that. I bring this up because like I have said earlier in this trend, you have to look at where a player was and where they are now and do they have skills that are NBA skills. I dont see Towns in this kid at all HOWEVER, I do see a number of skills that will help him be a good NBA player.

I read a report that Bender had horrible shooting mechanics during the Jordan Brand Game in 2013. A report 2 years later says that his mechanics are greatly improved. What that says to me is that he works on his game. The kid is 18. He isnt a finished product. I think he has a chance to be fairly good from what I have seen so far.

Still slow. Jerebko slow. Unless you are pretty open, you won't able to get a comfortable shot off

Bc of this mechanical shooting method he can't pull off the dribble , stop and pop (would be a serious weapon for a guy his height) .

Opposing teams gameplan on bender would be to contest the jump shot and/or clog the lane to prevent him getting all the way to the basket

I don't agree that his release is even close to as slow as Jerebko's, the last time you brought this up you pointed to a video from last year as your evidence. Even if his release is slightly slow (which I don't agree with) him being 7 feet will help him get his shot off.

Since he's only 18, I expect his shot to improve. If it's not possible for a young guy like him to improve his shooting I don't know why anyone bothers to practice shooting. His 3 point shooting and ability to guard multiple positions is exactly why the C's would draft him.

Now, I realize we haven't seen a bunch of film on him. However, if Danny picks him I will be confident that someone with enough information made an informed decision and be happy with it. In theory it's easy to see why Bender is tantalizing, he's quick, with good length, can shoot the 3, pass well, solid handle and ability to guard multiple positions. If Danny feels confident that those abilities will develop so will I.

I'm about 50/50 on whether I'd prefer Bender or Okafor with the 3rd pick. If the Sixers ask for a lot more than just #3 then I think Bender should be the pick, but if he isn't I will be confident that Ainge made an informed decision not to draft him.

[Eddie20]

Allow me to be philosophical for a sec.  I'm leery of evaluating a prospect this way.  "If he just gets better at x and y he could make a real impact".  Or, "we haven't seen him do it yet, but the potential is there".  In my experience, some things can be improved (like conditioning), but what you see is mostly what you get.  Many of the most important things are innate. Take this description from DraftExpress:

"Shows tantalizing talent and an incredibly high skill-level for a 7-footer. Has great size, a nice frame, long arms and solid mobility for his position. Not an athletic freak, but very coordinated. Fluid, yet not overly explosive, particularly around the rim. Amazing perimeter shooter who can create his own shot with ease, but still has a ways to go in terms of learning how to play winning basketball. A mediocre rebounder and defender who is not all that efficient offensively. Still has considerable upside to continue to develop."

That sounds enough like Bender to me.  It's actually Andrea Bargnani.  So what's the difference between Bargnani and Nowitzki or Bender and Nowitzki?  I don't know, but it's obvious if you watch a couple hours of tape.  You don't watch teenage Dirk and think, "wow, he has a long ways to go".  You don't look at 18 year old Bird and think, "if he was just a little stronger" (lol) -- he's already putting up 30 and 15 every game.  When I watch Bender I think, "backup energy guy?"

It's not infallible and just an opinion.  e.g. I didn't think Towns would be a first tier center in the league.  I thought solid starter in a couple years.  It looks like I was wrong.  We didn't see everything he had to offer at KY.

Im going to get a little off track here and talk about your Towns comment. I first saw Towns at 17 in the Nike Hoop Summit. He was not the best player there but he had alot of really good tools. The big knock on him at that time was that he liked to hang out one the perimeter too much. After seeming him the following year in the Nike Hoop Summit, I told a friend of mine that although the 2014 class was supposed to be really good this Towns kid was going to be the top pick. Throughout that year, everyone talked about Okafor because Towns wasnt putting up numbers. It wasnt til late that people began to talk about him as the top pick.

I say all of this not to say Im an expert or anything like that. I bring this up because like I have said earlier in this trend, you have to look at where a player was and where they are now and do they have skills that are NBA skills. I dont see Towns in this kid at all HOWEVER, I do see a number of skills that will help him be a good NBA player.

I read a report that Bender had horrible shooting mechanics during the Jordan Brand Game in 2013. A report 2 years later says that his mechanics are greatly improved. What that says to me is that he works on his game. The kid is 18. He isnt a finished product. I think he has a chance to be fairly good from what I have seen so far.

Still slow. Jerebko slow. Unless you are pretty open, you won't able to get a comfortable shot off

Bc of this mechanical shooting method he can't pull off the dribble , stop and pop (would be a serious weapon for a guy his height) .

Opposing teams gameplan on bender would be to contest the jump shot and/or clog the lane to prevent him getting all the way to the basket

I don't agree that his release is even close to as slow as Jerebko's, the last time you brought this up you pointed to a video from last year as your evidence. Even if his release is slightly slow (which I don't agree with) him being 7 feet will help him get his shot off.

It's not. Look at the video I posted above and watch how he shoots against a close out. Bender has a very smooth, effortless stroke, with a high release point.

[PickNRoll]

Allow me to be philosophical for a sec.  I'm leery of evaluating a prospect this way.  "If he just gets better at x and y he could make a real impact".  Or, "we haven't seen him do it yet, but the potential is there".  In my experience, some things can be improved (like conditioning), but what you see is mostly what you get.  Many of the most important things are innate.

The area where this sort of language concerns me the most is when a player is described as being a bad defender who has the tools to be a good defender.

Those two posts started out sounding like they were critiques of Bender but wound up sounding like critiques of Okafor.

Anyway, I'm not sure how else one might evaluate 18, 19, and 20 year old kids. Saying "what you see is what you get" is not just wrong it's grossly wrong. No one ever gets drafted fully formed. Okafor was supposed to be more "NBA ready" than Towns but Towns has proven to be more NBA ready and still has a higher upside. These guys get better in between draft day and preseason, let alone the improvements they make when they get into the league.

The real question should be, "Does this guy have the skills to improve on and the temperament to put in the work?"

I think you're over-extending what I said, or at least what I meant.  Let me give a couple examples of "what you see is what you get".

Avery Bradley will never be a great playmaker
Tony Allen will never be a great shooter
Jason Kidd is a great playmaker (probably since middle school)
Kelly Olynyk will never be a shot blocker
Carmelo Anthony (at syracuse) is an elite scorer
Deandre Jordan is a bad FT shooter
JJ Reddick is a great shooter

These things are just true.  Melos don't forget how to score and Tony Allens don't become Ray Allens.  So back to Bender.  What can we say with some confidence?

He will never be an elite rebounder.  I'm sorry, that just isn't how rebounding works.
He is not an elite scorer.
He is not a great playmaker. 24 assists in 38 games.
He is unlikely to become an elite shooter (shaky mechanics) but does have legit NBA range and shooting can improve. 
He is not an elite shot blocker.
He will never be an elite athlete.
He handles the ball well in the open court for a 7 footer, which is mostly useless.
He'll never be an elite post player.

So what do we have left?

[kozlodoev]

So what do we have left?

Steve Novak

[Quetzalcoatl]

Instead of showing videos of only his weaknesses from 2 years ago then saying that they are all you need to know, I went and compiled his actual stats in the last couple months from Maccabi's website.  Then I went to their YouTube page and got the highlight videos.

Bender is jersey #3

vs Ironi Nahariya on 4/18
11 Min, 1 pt, 1 board, 1 assist (first game back from injury.  I don't even think he's in this video other than just being open in the background, but I feel it's important for fairness to include it.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWrEHLAZwWE

vs Haifa - 4/3
13 min, 5 points, 2 boards, 1/2 from 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xXD8nCG9J0

vs Ashdod - 3/28
19 min, 13 points, 1/3 from 3, 4 boards, 1 st, 2 assists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W7R-i88zqc - he has a nice shot around 2:00 in this one, then gets taken off the dribble, then has a nice assist on a fast break.

vs Jerusalem - 3/21
23 min, 11 points, 3/5 from 3, 5 boards, 1 steal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqaqcHETDDM
Great post defense around 1:30, but gets taken off the dribble around 2:30.  He has good team defense/positioning in the rest of the clips.  His main weakness on D I am seeing is against the drive.

vs Nes Ziona - 3/13
12 min, 7 pts, 1/2 from 3, 4 boards, 1 steal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8_xWDy0kpQ
Awesome shot around the 1 minute mark with a hand in his face on a broken play

vs Tel Aviv
13 min, 4 points, 0/2 from 3, 6 boards, 2 steals
Game seems to be missing?

vs Eliat
22 min, 11 pts, 2/6 from 3, 5 boards, 1 steal, 2 assists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25Eg9UyJfB0

So after watching these, I think he could come in and be kind of a role player the first year, but he has the potential to be good.  The main concern for me is that he is not a power forward or center, he is almost certainly a wing.  However, it seems like he can be taken off the dribble.  The good news is that I don't think it's because of a lack of lateral quickness, but because he is 17 or 18 in most of these videos and is just kind of green. 

Also, his rebounding no longer seems like a weakness.  He was boxed out a couple times, but he has very respectable #s overall.

[PickNRoll]

Allow me to be philosophical for a sec.  I'm leery of evaluating a prospect this way.  "If he just gets better at x and y he could make a real impact".  Or, "we haven't seen him do it yet, but the potential is there".  In my experience, some things can be improved (like conditioning), but what you see is mostly what you get.  Many of the most important things are innate. Take this description from DraftExpress:

"Shows tantalizing talent and an incredibly high skill-level for a 7-footer. Has great size, a nice frame, long arms and solid mobility for his position. Not an athletic freak, but very coordinated. Fluid, yet not overly explosive, particularly around the rim. Amazing perimeter shooter who can create his own shot with ease, but still has a ways to go in terms of learning how to play winning basketball. A mediocre rebounder and defender who is not all that efficient offensively. Still has considerable upside to continue to develop."

That sounds enough like Bender to me.  It's actually Andrea Bargnani.  So what's the difference between Bargnani and Nowitzki or Bender and Nowitzki?  I don't know, but it's obvious if you watch a couple hours of tape.  You don't watch teenage Dirk and think, "wow, he has a long ways to go".  You don't look at 18 year old Bird and think, "if he was just a little stronger" (lol) -- he's already putting up 30 and 15 every game.  When I watch Bender I think, "backup energy guy?"

It's not infallible and just an opinion.  e.g. I didn't think Towns would be a first tier center in the league.  I thought solid starter in a couple years.  It looks like I was wrong.  We didn't see everything he had to offer at KY.

Im going to get a little off track here and talk about your Towns comment. I first saw Towns at 17 in the Nike Hoop Summit. He was not the best player there but he had alot of really good tools. The big knock on him at that time was that he liked to hang out one the perimeter too much. After seeming him the following year in the Nike Hoop Summit, I told a friend of mine that although the 2014 class was supposed to be really good this Towns kid was going to be the top pick. Throughout that year, everyone talked about Okafor because Towns wasnt putting up numbers. It wasnt til late that people began to talk about him as the top pick.

I say all of this not to say Im an expert or anything like that. I bring this up because like I have said earlier in this trend, you have to look at where a player was and where they are now and do they have skills that are NBA skills. I dont see Towns in this kid at all HOWEVER, I do see a number of skills that will help him be a good NBA player.

I read a report that Bender had horrible shooting mechanics during the Jordan Brand Game in 2013. A report 2 years later says that his mechanics are greatly improved. What that says to me is that he works on his game. The kid is 18. He isnt a finished product. I think he has a chance to be fairly good from what I have seen so far.

Still slow. Jerebko slow. Unless you are pretty open, you won't able to get a comfortable shot off

This opinion seems outdated. You might want to consider viewing his shooting (both form and quickness) in this video starting at 2 min.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_gKIJ9vSYI

this video is fairly representative of what I've seen.  Rough synopsis:

misses a boxout but his length allows him to tip the rebound
fails to put a body on a guy and almost loses rebound (but gets fouled)
nice recovery to block a shot
travels twice attacking closeouts, but does find an open teammate for a bunny
knocks down wide open 3
backs down a guy for 5 seconds, reaching foul
uncontested rebound
absolutely klanks an open jumper, wide left by a foot and a half

It just isn't speaking to me.  He never looks like the best guy on his team.

[snively]

Allow me to be philosophical for a sec.  I'm leery of evaluating a prospect this way.  "If he just gets better at x and y he could make a real impact".  Or, "we haven't seen him do it yet, but the potential is there".  In my experience, some things can be improved (like conditioning), but what you see is mostly what you get.  Many of the most important things are innate. Take this description from DraftExpress:

"Shows tantalizing talent and an incredibly high skill-level for a 7-footer. Has great size, a nice frame, long arms and solid mobility for his position. Not an athletic freak, but very coordinated. Fluid, yet not overly explosive, particularly around the rim. Amazing perimeter shooter who can create his own shot with ease, but still has a ways to go in terms of learning how to play winning basketball. A mediocre rebounder and defender who is not all that efficient offensively. Still has considerable upside to continue to develop."

That sounds enough like Bender to me.  It's actually Andrea Bargnani.  So what's the difference between Bargnani and Nowitzki or Bender and Nowitzki?  I don't know, but it's obvious if you watch a couple hours of tape.  You don't watch teenage Dirk and think, "wow, he has a long ways to go".  You don't look at 18 year old Bird and think, "if he was just a little stronger" (lol) -- he's already putting up 30 and 15 every game.  When I watch Bender I think, "backup energy guy?"

It's not infallible and just an opinion.  e.g. I didn't think Towns would be a first tier center in the league.  I thought solid starter in a couple years.  It looks like I was wrong.  We didn't see everything he had to offer at KY.

Im going to get a little off track here and talk about your Towns comment. I first saw Towns at 17 in the Nike Hoop Summit. He was not the best player there but he had alot of really good tools. The big knock on him at that time was that he liked to hang out one the perimeter too much. After seeming him the following year in the Nike Hoop Summit, I told a friend of mine that although the 2014 class was supposed to be really good this Towns kid was going to be the top pick. Throughout that year, everyone talked about Okafor because Towns wasnt putting up numbers. It wasnt til late that people began to talk about him as the top pick.

I say all of this not to say Im an expert or anything like that. I bring this up because like I have said earlier in this trend, you have to look at where a player was and where they are now and do they have skills that are NBA skills. I dont see Towns in this kid at all HOWEVER, I do see a number of skills that will help him be a good NBA player.

I read a report that Bender had horrible shooting mechanics during the Jordan Brand Game in 2013. A report 2 years later says that his mechanics are greatly improved. What that says to me is that he works on his game. The kid is 18. He isnt a finished product. I think he has a chance to be fairly good from what I have seen so far.

Still slow. Jerebko slow. Unless you are pretty open, you won't able to get a comfortable shot off

This opinion seems outdated. You might want to consider viewing his shooting (both form and quickness) in this video starting at 2 min.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_gKIJ9vSYI

this video is fairly representative of what I've seen.  Rough synopsis:

misses a boxout but his length allows him to tip the rebound
fails to put a body on a guy and almost loses rebound (but gets fouled)
nice recovery to block a shot
travels twice attacking closeouts, but does find an open teammate for a bunny
knocks down wide open 3
backs down a guy for 5 seconds, reaching foul
uncontested rebound
absolutely klanks an open jumper, wide left by a foot and a half

It just isn't speaking to me.  He never looks like the best guy on his team.

Sounds like a taller Jerebko. Nice mobility, decent shooting touch, competes. Never wows.

[Eddie20]

Allow me to be philosophical for a sec.  I'm leery of evaluating a prospect this way.  "If he just gets better at x and y he could make a real impact".  Or, "we haven't seen him do it yet, but the potential is there".  In my experience, some things can be improved (like conditioning), but what you see is mostly what you get.  Many of the most important things are innate. Take this description from DraftExpress:

"Shows tantalizing talent and an incredibly high skill-level for a 7-footer. Has great size, a nice frame, long arms and solid mobility for his position. Not an athletic freak, but very coordinated. Fluid, yet not overly explosive, particularly around the rim. Amazing perimeter shooter who can create his own shot with ease, but still has a ways to go in terms of learning how to play winning basketball. A mediocre rebounder and defender who is not all that efficient offensively. Still has considerable upside to continue to develop."

That sounds enough like Bender to me.  It's actually Andrea Bargnani.  So what's the difference between Bargnani and Nowitzki or Bender and Nowitzki?  I don't know, but it's obvious if you watch a couple hours of tape.  You don't watch teenage Dirk and think, "wow, he has a long ways to go".  You don't look at 18 year old Bird and think, "if he was just a little stronger" (lol) -- he's already putting up 30 and 15 every game.  When I watch Bender I think, "backup energy guy?"

It's not infallible and just an opinion.  e.g. I didn't think Towns would be a first tier center in the league.  I thought solid starter in a couple years.  It looks like I was wrong.  We didn't see everything he had to offer at KY.

Im going to get a little off track here and talk about your Towns comment. I first saw Towns at 17 in the Nike Hoop Summit. He was not the best player there but he had alot of really good tools. The big knock on him at that time was that he liked to hang out one the perimeter too much. After seeming him the following year in the Nike Hoop Summit, I told a friend of mine that although the 2014 class was supposed to be really good this Towns kid was going to be the top pick. Throughout that year, everyone talked about Okafor because Towns wasnt putting up numbers. It wasnt til late that people began to talk about him as the top pick.

I say all of this not to say Im an expert or anything like that. I bring this up because like I have said earlier in this trend, you have to look at where a player was and where they are now and do they have skills that are NBA skills. I dont see Towns in this kid at all HOWEVER, I do see a number of skills that will help him be a good NBA player.

I read a report that Bender had horrible shooting mechanics during the Jordan Brand Game in 2013. A report 2 years later says that his mechanics are greatly improved. What that says to me is that he works on his game. The kid is 18. He isnt a finished product. I think he has a chance to be fairly good from what I have seen so far.

Still slow. Jerebko slow. Unless you are pretty open, you won't able to get a comfortable shot off

This opinion seems outdated. You might want to consider viewing his shooting (both form and quickness) in this video starting at 2 min.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_gKIJ9vSYI

this video is fairly representative of what I've seen.  Rough synopsis:

misses a boxout but his length allows him to tip the rebound
fails to put a body on a guy and almost loses rebound (but gets fouled)
nice recovery to block a shot
travels twice attacking closeouts, but does find an open teammate for a bunny
knocks down wide open 3
backs down a guy for 5 seconds, reaching foul
uncontested rebound
absolutely klanks an open jumper, wide left by a foot and a half

It just isn't speaking to me.  He never looks like the best guy on his team.

He was going up/sharing the court against men, though. Robbie Hummel (who was a 2x Wooden finalist), Farmer, Gentile (high regarded euro), etc.

[Tr1boy]

Allow me to be philosophical for a sec.  I'm leery of evaluating a prospect this way.  "If he just gets better at x and y he could make a real impact".  Or, "we haven't seen him do it yet, but the potential is there".  In my experience, some things can be improved (like conditioning), but what you see is mostly what you get.  Many of the most important things are innate. Take this description from DraftExpress:

"Shows tantalizing talent and an incredibly high skill-level for a 7-footer. Has great size, a nice frame, long arms and solid mobility for his position. Not an athletic freak, but very coordinated. Fluid, yet not overly explosive, particularly around the rim. Amazing perimeter shooter who can create his own shot with ease, but still has a ways to go in terms of learning how to play winning basketball. A mediocre rebounder and defender who is not all that efficient offensively. Still has considerable upside to continue to develop."

That sounds enough like Bender to me.  It's actually Andrea Bargnani.  So what's the difference between Bargnani and Nowitzki or Bender and Nowitzki?  I don't know, but it's obvious if you watch a couple hours of tape.  You don't watch teenage Dirk and think, "wow, he has a long ways to go".  You don't look at 18 year old Bird and think, "if he was just a little stronger" (lol) -- he's already putting up 30 and 15 every game.  When I watch Bender I think, "backup energy guy?"

It's not infallible and just an opinion.  e.g. I didn't think Towns would be a first tier center in the league.  I thought solid starter in a couple years.  It looks like I was wrong.  We didn't see everything he had to offer at KY.

Im going to get a little off track here and talk about your Towns comment. I first saw Towns at 17 in the Nike Hoop Summit. He was not the best player there but he had alot of really good tools. The big knock on him at that time was that he liked to hang out one the perimeter too much. After seeming him the following year in the Nike Hoop Summit, I told a friend of mine that although the 2014 class was supposed to be really good this Towns kid was going to be the top pick. Throughout that year, everyone talked about Okafor because Towns wasnt putting up numbers. It wasnt til late that people began to talk about him as the top pick.

I say all of this not to say Im an expert or anything like that. I bring this up because like I have said earlier in this trend, you have to look at where a player was and where they are now and do they have skills that are NBA skills. I dont see Towns in this kid at all HOWEVER, I do see a number of skills that will help him be a good NBA player.

I read a report that Bender had horrible shooting mechanics during the Jordan Brand Game in 2013. A report 2 years later says that his mechanics are greatly improved. What that says to me is that he works on his game. The kid is 18. He isnt a finished product. I think he has a chance to be fairly good from what I have seen so far.

Still slow. Jerebko slow. Unless you are pretty open, you won't able to get a comfortable shot off

This opinion seems outdated. You might want to consider viewing his shooting (both form and quickness) in this video starting at 2 min.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_gKIJ9vSYI

this video is fairly representative of what I've seen.  Rough synopsis:

misses a boxout but his length allows him to tip the rebound
fails to put a body on a guy and almost loses rebound (but gets fouled)
nice recovery to block a shot
travels twice attacking closeouts, but does find an open teammate for a bunny
knocks down wide open 3
backs down a guy for 5 seconds, reaching foul
uncontested rebound
absolutely klanks an open jumper, wide left by a foot and a half

It just isn't speaking to me.  He never looks like the best guy on his team.

He was going up/sharing the court against men, though. Robbie Hummel (who was a 2x Wooden finalist), Farmer, Gentile (high regarded euro), etc.

Oh yes Hummel and Gentile. So good they skipped playing at the NBA level