Author Topic: Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....  (Read 27599 times)

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Re: Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....
« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2016, 01:22:51 AM »

Offline clevelandceltic

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I love how some try to kill this kid by just talking about his weaknesses and talk about him as an unknown due to playing time. Lets be clear. Guys like Murray and Bender have been around for years. Murray has played in two Nike Hoop Summit's. NBA scouts can scout the practices. Bender played in Basketball without Borders which is also an nba scouted event.

I find it laughable that people are trying to kill Bender on his lack of strength, explosion, age, and frame when those are some of the MAJOR weaknesses of Ingram as well. I guess we shouldnt even consider Ingram either.

Triboy you keep hammering this kid cus you love Heild but you never mention his flaws. Lets take a look. Not a playmaker, not a shot creator, not a good defender, is 3 or 4 years older than any of the players we are talking about.

Lets talk about what a player can offer now and in the future not just the negative.

Ingram has some red flags no doubt.  He is skinny but he is also projected to play the SF position at the next level.    He doesn't have to "battle" "play physical" nearly as much as a PF or center.   His main bread and butter on offense will be his jumper (which is very nice).  And if you try to "cheat"  , he can handle the ball to the basket and do all sorts of things to score

defensively he is not explosive but has range to cover his man/length to block shots 

Ingram had a very good freshman year with several big games under his belt.

To me is seems like you ignore the progress the kid as made but love to give Heild credit for the progress he has made. DX has 4 years worth of reports on this kid. They have scouted him longer than Ingram has even been on the scene. This isnt a knock on Ingram its just to say it seems like you are picking and choosing when to apply certain standards.

What's next?  Lebron Jr.  and Wade Jr.  have been scouted since 5, so they are going to be both  be like their dads at the NBA level?

It matters little what Bender did at 15. Just like it matters little Ingram was considered an average prospect at age 15.

Way to jump to wild conclusions. It does matter how long a player has been scouted and how that player has improved their body and skill. Its called progress. A team has to look at where a player is and project into the future. If the player has never progressed in 4 years thats important.

Re: Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....
« Reply #61 on: May 24, 2016, 01:33:43 AM »

Offline CelticsFanFromNYC

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Is Bender Olynyk?

Re: Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....
« Reply #62 on: May 24, 2016, 02:25:44 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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We can only hope Danny Ainge takes the time to read threads like these. The wisdom contained here is all that can save him from making a terrible, franchise-crippling mistake.

Re: Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....
« Reply #63 on: May 24, 2016, 03:27:27 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Is Bender Olynyk?

No, less refined on offence. More of a PF. Defensively he's already better than Olynyk will ever be

Re: Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....
« Reply #64 on: May 24, 2016, 07:27:21 AM »

Offline CroCorvus

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I know we must talk about something but man this is getting ridiculous...

Re: Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....
« Reply #65 on: May 24, 2016, 08:03:00 AM »

Offline CroCorvus

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Danny Ainge: “There are just too many examples of really good players that the fans haven’t been excited about on draft day. Last year, I remember [Kristaps] Porzingis was drafted in New York and they were booing all over the place and you’re like, ‘Well, why would they be booing so much on Porzingis?’ When you draft players, I remember when I was in Phoenix and we drafted Steve Nash and we were booed. I remember [the Suns fans] booed when Dan Majerle was drafted in Phoenix. … You can’t base any of your decisions based on what the public thinks and based on what other people think you should do.”

Re: Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....
« Reply #66 on: May 24, 2016, 08:22:03 AM »

Offline CoachBo

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Draftexpress weakness scouting video below.    We are not only talking about lack of strength problems here.     Has no post game to speak of.    Lacks explosiveness.   takes a while before shooting the ball  (if you think Jerebko is slow..).    Jack of all trades type on both ends.   Lacks a reliable shooting touch.    Imo does not look has reliable in a half court game (critical in the 4th quarter)

again yes lack of strength is a key issue.  But this guy is not some super "skilled" player many here think he is.  He is no dirk , thats for sure.   

Even if this clip below does not "sway" your overall thinking about bender, just be aware

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhREj9q-UpM

All legitimate concerns. TP.

But you are wasting your time. The folks on this board who are intent on Ainge wasting the best Celtics draft pick in 20 years on, to be as kind as possible, an uber-project that will take at least five years to contribute a thing to this club with his many flaws and his badly underdeveloped game are never going to admit they are wrong.

That's the beauty of the Internet.

Now, we just have to hope that Ainge hasn't lost his mind entirely.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....
« Reply #67 on: May 24, 2016, 08:24:15 AM »

Offline CoachBo

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We can only hope Danny Ainge takes the time to read threads like these. The wisdom contained here is all that can save him from making a terrible, franchise-crippling mistake.

TP.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....
« Reply #68 on: May 24, 2016, 08:26:06 AM »

Offline chambers

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Draftexpress weakness scouting video below.    We are not only talking about lack of strength problems here.     Has no post game to speak of.    Lacks explosiveness.   takes a while before shooting the ball  (if you think Jerebko is slow..).    Jack of all trades type on both ends.   Lacks a reliable shooting touch.    Imo does not look has reliable in a half court game (critical in the 4th quarter)

again yes lack of strength is a key issue.  But this guy is not some super "skilled" player many here think he is.  He is no dirk , thats for sure.   

Even if this clip below does not "sway" your overall thinking about bender, just be aware

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhREj9q-UpM

All legitimate concerns. TP.

But you are wasting your time. The folks on this board who are intent on Ainge wasting the best Celtics draft pick in 20 years on, to be as kind as possible, an uber-project that will take at least five years to contribute a thing to this club with his many flaws and his badly underdeveloped game are never going to admit they are wrong.

That's the beauty of the Internet.

Now, we just have to hope that Ainge hasn't lost his mind entirely.

Yep, let's get Sabonis instead.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....
« Reply #69 on: May 24, 2016, 08:31:01 AM »

Offline JohnBoy65

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So yes it is worth remembering what he has to work on as well. When he comes for a workout there will be 2 weaknesses that he will have to have shown growth in my opinion.

1) shot mechanics - he has improved his percentages year on year but has he improved the quickness of his release? Also can he show the ability to implement advice during the workout?

2) strength - has he shown improvement in that are over the course of the year? Doesn't need to be at the end goal but a desire to have moved forward in that area

It's important to remember that these videos were from November so he will have come on since then.

I'm less concerned by the rebounding and rim protection at this stage as both of those follow on from the increase in strength. His lack of polish in the post bothers me less because there are fewer prospects his age that have that, those that do have usually developed it at the expense of range or defence which are 2 things Bender has worked on.

All the prospects at #3 will have to show improvement as well. Hield will need to show some ball handling and foot speed, he needs something that he can progress further on if he is to be considered. Murray needs to show a willingness to defend and some better foot speed otherwise he's a walking sieve.

Still a few weeks til we'll start to get answers to that unfortunately

I don't agree.  Murray is definitely a willing defender. His heart is in the right place. The question is, can he do a good job at it , at the nba level?   

Bender unfortunately had/has to ride the bench.  He is basically going to have only a few weeks to prepare for the workouts.   Doubt his body will be any different

What?? How the hell can you make that assertion? Obviously your extreme bias is showing. You have no idea what's going on in his head. There's nothing he's said that proves his 'heart' is in the right place. Come on man.

Re: Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....
« Reply #70 on: May 24, 2016, 09:16:51 AM »

Offline hpantazo

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Is Bender Olynyk?

One big difference is that Bender is not soft.

Re: Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....
« Reply #71 on: May 24, 2016, 09:31:41 AM »

Offline ssspence

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Look, what I'm not seeing here is a discussion on the following:

Ainge has shown a strong reluctance to reach on high risk / high reward players from Europe in the past at far less valuable picks, typically outside the lottery. The Greek Freak over Olynyk is an example of this, but there are plenty of others.

He's literally never done it. The only european Ainge has ever drafted is Semih Erden, who he took 60th.

Do folks really believe that he's going to change his approach with the 3rd pick, which is far more valuable? Isn't it likely that he'll prefer to take his typically more safe approach, and go with a Dunn, Murray, or Hield? I'd say it's certainly more likely, though not necessarily a given.

I'm beginning to think that if Ainge can't find a trade partner for a veteran (or one of the teams positioned 4-6 in this draft), he'll take the best of those three above, and look to move Smart + future picks later for a veteran scorer.

He'll THEN take a couple of cracks at folks like Maker or Zizic later in the draft, because he pretty much has to (needs them to play overseas for at least a year).
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....
« Reply #72 on: May 24, 2016, 09:57:08 AM »

Offline gift

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triboy, what are you doing? we want the lakers to take bender. we need to all be on the same page and talk up his value as much as possible.

Re: Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....
« Reply #73 on: May 24, 2016, 09:59:50 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Look, what I'm not seeing here is a discussion on the following:

Ainge has shown a strong reluctance to reach on high risk / high reward players from Europe in the past at far less valuable picks, typically outside the lottery. The Greek Freak over Olynyk is an example of this, but there are plenty of others.

He's literally never done it. The only european Ainge has ever drafted is Semih Erden, who he took 60th.

Do folks really believe that he's going to change his approach with the 3rd pick, which is far more valuable? Isn't it likely that he'll prefer to take his typically more safe approach, and go with a Dunn, Murray, or Hield? I'd say it's certainly more likely, though not necessarily a given.

I'm beginning to think that if Ainge can't find a trade partner for a veteran (or one of the teams positioned 4-6 in this draft), he'll take the best of those three above, and look to move Smart + future picks later for a veteran scorer.

He'll THEN take a couple of cracks at folks like Maker or Zizic later in the draft, because he pretty much has to (needs them to play overseas for at least a year).

The only one relevant in recent memory is Giannis. He is entirely different to Bender, was far more of an unknown. Ainge has never had a Euro prospect in his range that wouldn't have been a reach. So it is unfair to say he is against them

Re: Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....
« Reply #74 on: May 24, 2016, 10:02:04 AM »

Offline elcotte

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Draftexpress weakness scouting video below.    We are not only talking about lack of strength problems here.     Has no post game to speak of.    Lacks explosiveness.   takes a while before shooting the ball  (if you think Jerebko is slow..).    Jack of all trades type on both ends.   Lacks a reliable shooting touch.    Imo does not look has reliable in a half court game (critical in the 4th quarter)

again yes lack of strength is a key issue.  But this guy is not some super "skilled" player many here think he is.  He is no dirk , thats for sure.   

Even if this clip below does not "sway" your overall thinking about bender, just be aware

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhREj9q-UpM

All legitimate concerns. TP.

But you are wasting your time. The folks on this board who are intent on Ainge wasting the best Celtics draft pick in 20 years on, to be as kind as possible, an uber-project that will take at least five years to contribute a thing to this club with his many flaws and his badly underdeveloped game are never going to admit they are wrong.

That's the beauty of the Internet.

Now, we just have to hope that Ainge hasn't lost his mind entirely.

And let's be clear....you want to trade the "best Celtic draft pick in 20 years on" for Okafur. That really doesn't sound like such a great draft pick.