Thon Maker vs Dragan Bender

[CoachBo]

I don't particularly want either one of them.

We need players who can help us now, not in five years.

[EvilEmpire]

I don't particularly want either one of them.

We need players who can help us now, not in five years.

By that same logic no one would have ever drafted a HS player. You draft BPA whoever you think that is.

[mmmmm]

I don't particularly want either one of them.

We need players who can help us now, not in five years.

Help us do what, exactly?  Get past Toronto and Cleveland?

No rookie we pick is going to do that.   So I take it you are in favor of trading for or signing a veteran, star player.

Me too.

Which one?   What is the trade that is going to get him?   Which FAs do you want to sign?

To me, Plan A should definitely be to acquire a star veteran player or two and try to contend.  But the cold reality is that that may not be possible.   Certainly, SOME free agents are going to be available to sign, but not necessarily the one(s) we need to get over the hump.   And trades obviously require some other GM to cooperate.

If no big trade / FA deals surface that are going to turn us into instant contenders that actually have a ghost of a chance of taking down Lebron, then we are left with the draft.  And since NO rookies we draft, no matter how "NBA ready" you might think they are coming out of college, are going to push us over that hump in the next year or two, it would be a complete waste of time to pick them based on "helping us now".

If we use the picks, then imho, we are in Plan B  and we need to draft for highest possible upside, to look for that elusive 'star' that will hopefully put us over that hump.

[crimson_stallion]

I don't particularly want either one of them.

We need players who can help us now, not in five years.

By that same logic no one would have ever drafted a HS player. You draft BPA whoever you think that is.

I disagree.

KG out of highschool already looked like he was an NBA ready talent, and his ceiling was clearly sky high.  With his height, length (7'5" wingspan), elite athleticism, passing ability, inside/outside game and ridiculous defensive ability - he was an obvious "take now" guy.

Bender doesn't look to me like an NBA player right now, and I think he's years away from being one.  I also question if he has the potential to be a star.

I know that on paper you COULD look at Bender as a poor man's KG, since he mostly has everything KG had at 18 (just at significantly reduced levels)...but to me those "significantly reduced levels" are the concern.

KG was an elite rebounder, elite defender, elite post scorer, elite passer, elite athlete, had elite length. 

By comparison Bender is an average rebounder, good defender, average post scorer, good passer, above average athlete, above average length.

I don't see franchise player potential in him (e.g. KG) but he might have the potential to become as good as Lamar Odom - I can't really envision him becoming any better then that to be honest.  Odom was a pretty good player though in his prime. 

[crimson_stallion]

Help us do what, exactly?  Get past Toronto and Cleveland?

No rookie we pick is going to do that.   So I take it you are in favor of trading for or signing a veteran, star player.

Not with that attitude!!! lol

Honestly though, I don't think any one rookie in this draft could improve us enough to be able to challenge Clevleand in a 7 game series. 

However, if we add a rookie who can fill an important hole (e.g. Hield with his shooting/scoring ability or Poeltl with his defence and rebounding) and then add another impact player via free agency or trades who can help us fill another big weakness or two (Dwight, Monroe, Horford, Butler, etc) then those two additions may well be enough to improve us to the point where we can really challenge Cleveland.

Remember that we gave an almost completely healthy #3 seed Atlanta Hawks team a pretty tough run without Bradley, without Olynyk, and with 30% of a Crowder.  With those guys healthy, there's a good chance we beat Atlanta in that series.

Add a deadly shooter (who the defence must respect 24/7) and a consistently productive big man who can dominate the paint, and it pushes this team to a whole other level.

If our goal is to add least two guys who can improve our talent level and/or fill key voids...then we might have a better chance of doing that with a rookie and a good vet, then we do if finding two good vets.

At with the draft there are some guarantees - you know exactly who is available at your position, and you have full freedom to select who you want at that point.  With trades and free agency there are no guarantees - you have no idea who is going to be available.

Trade and Free Agent markets are so heavily dependant on other parties.  You don't get a free agent unless he decides you are the one team (out of 30) he most wants to go to.  You don't get big name players in trades unless the other team happens to want what you are offering more than any other package being offered to them.  That makes it very easy to come out of both Free Agency and the Trade market empty handed. 

In the event hat the above happens (worst cse) the draft might be the only way for us to actually improve the team with talent.

[alldaboston]

I don't particularly want either one of them.

We need players who can help us now, not in five years.

Anyone in particular? You always say these general things, you always attack Danny and the rest of the organization, yet you never tell us what we should do instead! How about you give us a plan of action you would support? Then we can see how effective your plan would be, since you always say Danny does a poor job. One must seriously consider hiring you instead at some point.

[Who]

Thon Maker = a taller Josh Smith?

[Celtics4ever]

For all the video posted on Bender, he does not have this kind of athletic ability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDZaJFd4aSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-VFbiqe0kQ

Rather gamble on Thon later in the first round, than take a guy who is that weak and can't jump.  Thon has  36.5" Max Vertical to Bender's 27.5".


http://www.foxsports.com.au/basketball/nba/thon-maker-nba-draft-combine-analysis--how-the-australian-fared-at-the-predraft-showcase/news-story/b71f7a20e83002cd41613e89ac4430c8?nk=a8a09c0b7ae10252f757e49e077a2be5-1464347465

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Dragan-Bender-62877/

[CelticsJG]

Thon Maker not that good. Skill set is very limited....Bender as has a high floor with high upside. He is a low risk high reward player.

[Tr1boy]

Thon Maker not that good. Skill set is very limited....Bender as has a high floor with high upside. He is a low risk high reward player.

How are you so sure??  Bender has no mid range game, no post up game. Ok jump shot, has a difficult time getting all the way to the basket consistently.  Ok rebounder. Lacks strength/explosivness

It's nice he can pass well around the perimeter but what about excelling at things PFs need to do well?

Questions marks surrounding makers game too, but he already does a couple things better than bender

Bender might have a high upside but also low floor (Channing Frye/mirotic)

[mr. dee]

Thon Maker = a taller Josh Smith?

At #23? That's a steal! A dumb as Josh Smith was, he was a great defender and a post scorer.

[Big333223]

I just did a quick roundup.

Maker is ranked #23 by Chad Ford, #28 at NBADraft.net, #40 at DraftExpress, and didn't appear in NBA.com's first round. I couldn't find any mocks that had Maker in the top 20.

Bender is ranked #5 by Chad Ford, #4 at NBADraft.net, #3 at DraftExpress, and #3 NBA.com. I couldn't find any mocks that have Bender lower than #5.

DraftExpress says the two are basically the same height (it has Maker as a quarter inch taller) and weight, but Bender's weight on that site is from a year ago and I've seen his weight listed at 225 elsewhere (nine lbs heavier than the 216 lbs DX has bother him and Maker). Both are skinny but given that Bender is nine months younger and reportedly gaining weight while Maker isn't, I think any concerns about Bender being too skinny have to be bigger for Maker.

So if the questions is Thon Maker or Dragan Bender, the concensus answer is Bender, no contest.

[jambr380]

I just did a quick roundup.

Maker is ranked #23 by Chad Ford, #28 at NBADraft.net, #40 at DraftExpress, and didn't appear in NBA.com's first round. I couldn't find any mocks that had Maker in the top 20.

Bender is ranked #5 by Chad Ford, #4 at NBADraft.net, #3 at DraftExpress, and #3 NBA.com. I couldn't find any mocks that have Bender lower than #5.

DraftExpress says the two are basically the same height (it has Maker as a quarter inch taller) and weight, but Bender's weight on that site is from a year ago and I've seen his weight listed at 225 elsewhere (nine lbs heavier than the 216 lbs DX has bother him and Maker). Both are skinny but given that Bender is nine months younger and reportedly gaining weight while Maker isn't, I think any concerns about Bender being too skinny have to be bigger for Maker.

So if the questions is Thon Maker or Dragan Bender, the concensus answer is Bender, no contest.

True, but you just proved your own point. At #3, you need Bender to be a star. At #23, you just need Maker to be a rotation player. The fact that we are even comparing the two makes it a slam dunk for Maker (in my mind). I would much rather trade the #3 for another star (or potential star) and take Maker at #23 than hope that Bender works out.

[Big333223]

I just did a quick roundup.

Maker is ranked #23 by Chad Ford, #28 at NBADraft.net, #40 at DraftExpress, and didn't appear in NBA.com's first round. I couldn't find any mocks that had Maker in the top 20.

Bender is ranked #5 by Chad Ford, #4 at NBADraft.net, #3 at DraftExpress, and #3 NBA.com. I couldn't find any mocks that have Bender lower than #5.

DraftExpress says the two are basically the same height (it has Maker as a quarter inch taller) and weight, but Bender's weight on that site is from a year ago and I've seen his weight listed at 225 elsewhere (nine lbs heavier than the 216 lbs DX has bother him and Maker). Both are skinny but given that Bender is nine months younger and reportedly gaining weight while Maker isn't, I think any concerns about Bender being too skinny have to be bigger for Maker.

So if the questions is Thon Maker or Dragan Bender, the concensus answer is Bender, no contest.

True, but you just proved your own point. At #3, you need Bender to be a star. At #23, you just need Maker to be a rotation player. The fact that we are even comparing the two makes it a slam dunk for Maker (in my mind). I would much rather trade the #3 for another star (or potential star) and take Maker at #23 than hope that Bender works out.

Thanks?

[ederson]

This is getting out of hand. Bender dominated FIBA competition before going to play for the best team (by far) in Israel.

I 100% agree that this is getting out of hand ....

Which is the fiba competition that Bender dominated
BTW This season Macabi is NOT the best team by far in Israel which has A VERY WEAK LEAGUE and also failed miserably in Euroleague.    Don`t use Maccabi`s past to make it look like Bander plays for the European Spurs....