Thon Maker vs Dragan Bender

[alldaboston]

Never done anything except dominate FIBA en route to the all-time best EWP of any Euro prospect..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

Please post your stats your touting because these stink.

http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/p/pid/100891/_//players.html

Hmm, isn't that the equivalent of 10th grade stats?

He averages those numbers against guys 2 year older than he was. Think what you want about him, but that's very impressive. Personally, I feel that if he got more time with Maccabi, he would be putting up better numbers and there would be much less worrying about him.

And before anyone wants to slam him for not getting minutes, you should know that guys his age (18 years old for crying out loud) don't get minutes in Europe. Teams there are in win now mode. Any team that drafts bender will draft him in the hopes that he will develop into an elite player. But in Europe teams don't care about development. They want to win and they want to win now. There's a reason he's not getting minutes and that's the reason.

For the record, I'd still prefer Murray over bender. Just thought that I had to be fair about bender's case too.

[Goldstar88]

Never done anything except dominate FIBA en route to the all-time best EWP of any Euro prospect..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

Please post your stats your touting because these stink.

http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/p/pid/100891/_//players.html

Hmm, isn't that the equivalent of 10th grade stats?

He averages those numbers against guys 2 year older than he was. Think what you want about him, but that's very impressive. Personally, I feel that if he got more time with Maccabi, he would be putting up better numbers and there would be much less worrying about him.

And before anyone wants to slam him for not getting minutes, you should know that guys his age (18 years old for crying out loud) don't get minutes in Europe. Teams there are in win now mode. Any team that drafts bender will draft him in the hopes that he will develop into an elite player. But in Europe teams don't care about development. They want to win and they want to win now. There's a reason he's not getting minutes and that's the reason.

For the record, I'd still prefer Murray over bender. Just thought that I had to be fair about bender's case too.

Ricky Rubio and Brandon Jennings did... They played at a very high level over there at the same age.

[alldaboston]

Never done anything except dominate FIBA en route to the all-time best EWP of any Euro prospect..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

Please post your stats your touting because these stink.

http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/p/pid/100891/_//players.html

Hmm, isn't that the equivalent of 10th grade stats?

He averages those numbers against guys 2 year older than he was. Think what you want about him, but that's very impressive. Personally, I feel that if he got more time with Maccabi, he would be putting up better numbers and there would be much less worrying about him.

And before anyone wants to slam him for not getting minutes, you should know that guys his age (18 years old for crying out loud) don't get minutes in Europe. Teams there are in win now mode. Any team that drafts bender will draft him in the hopes that he will develop into an elite player. But in Europe teams don't care about development. They want to win and they want to win now. There's a reason he's not getting minutes and that's the reason.

For the record, I'd still prefer Murray over bender. Just thought that I had to be fair about bender's case too.

Ricky Rubio and Brandon Jennings did... They played at a very high level over there at the same age.

Rubio: http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/ricky-rubio-1.html
(6 and 3 per game)

Jennings: http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/brandon-jennings-1.html
(6 and 2 per game)

Very high level? Lol

[jambr380]

I realize we technically could take both, but if I had to choose one, I look at it this way:

I can either draft Bender and somebody else at 23,

or trade the #3 for a 'star' and draft Maker. I am all in on Maker as a later first round pick and would probably even take him at #16 if he shot up draft charts because of strong workouts.

[Eja117]

Wait. Who were the NBA prospects Maker was playing against in that video?

The difference between Macabi Tel Aviv and whatever high school Maker was at is far bigger than the difference between Duke and Oak Hill Academy or Duke and whoever the play in loser in the tournament was last year. Duke and Columbia. It's a bigger gap than that.

Bender would have absolutely dominated whatever and wherever Maker was last year.

There is no comparison whatsoever between the levels of talent they played last year. Macai Tel Aviv would most likely win the tournament in any given year.

[loco_91]

Never done anything except dominate FIBA en route to the all-time best EWP of any Euro prospect..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

Please post your stats your touting because these stink.

http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/p/pid/100891/_//players.html

Particularly impressive was his 4.9 assits vs 1.7 turnovers per game. Here's a source for the EWP: https://deanondraft.com//?s=bender&search=Go

"His 261 minute FIBA u18 sample nets him a historically elite 17.4 according to Layne Vashro’s EWP model, which is 4th all time behind Shaq, Anthony Davis, and Nerlens Noel."

Note that this stat probably overrates Bender, as it is a small sample, but it would be incorrect to say that Bender has never played at an impressively high level.

[droopdog7]

I've been excited by the potential of Maker, but that's been tempered by watching video's from his school games.  All the Thon Maker supporters should watch this video.  It's an 11 1/2 minute video showing all the plays he was involved in in one high school game.  He scored 40 points in the game, but he still did not look that good. He has trouble finishing near the hoop against smaller high school players.  His timing when trying to block shots is terrible. His passing is better than I expected and his outside shooting is decent.  I'm not sure he has the coordination or feel for the game to succeed in the NBA.  He's no where close to Bender's level.  I'd still take a shot at him with the 23rd or 31st pick though considering his height and athleticism.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YflrrBzqFzQ

Yeah, Maker doesn't look like this incredible fluid athlete by any stretch of the imagination.

Compare that to Bender in the highlights below against similar competition and it's night and day admittedly this is video highlights).  Bender moves much better and is more skilled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbrXB3Lcung

Maker is playing against other NBA draft prospects in that video. He shows good versatility in scoring. I like that he can score under the basket, has a baby hook, and can also hit the 3 ball. He seems more versatile of a scorer.

The video of Bender is from before he was playing for Tel Aviv. It was a youth game, like AAU. He wasn't playing against guys that could out muscle him or who possess superior athleticism. If he scored the 43 points in the European pro league while, playing on Tel Aviv, I would have been impressed.

Really?  What NBA prOspects?  It's a high school game.  How do you think bender would look in that game?

[Chris22]

The Bender haters are clutching at so many straws. If he does something it's nothing, if another prospect does it he's the next Jordan.

Maker is universally considered a borderline 1st round talent at the moment. Bender is the universal 3rd pick. If you can't see a difference between them you are blind, stupid or belligerent in your ignorance of European talent.

The Bender supporters are grasping at straws.

TP.

[ahonui06]

Celtics could just draft both

[fugazzi24]

Thon Maker has the highest vertical reach in NBA draft 12'3". I don't care if he ever plays a minute in the NBA, his size, athleticism and determination mean he should be our 16th pick 100%.

He is probably 2 years from contributing meaningful minutes but could be our center for 15 years if things break right.

Bender might make sense at #3 but we will have to wait until he works out with the team in another month.

Personally I would take Murray as his level of shooting would immediately make us better.

[rollie mass]

you can see benders bbiq in his passing, first step and lateral
he prefers finesse  rather than just the dunk and he stays on perimeter because he can't bump at his weight-
the kid spent his whole childhood playing one on one with his older brother-who could play but tore his acl twice
-not doing anything stupid to injure himself has become a priority
you cant teach that quick first step or that moving laterallly it as precious  in todays game
 vertical can be developed in the weight room when he is ready-he is probably cautious of those knees
the kid likes to run ,he likes to play basketball and it shows-
but it is risky picking skinny 18yr olds-
these kids are eastern european tough,they wern't spoiled as young kids-
the professional scouts and all that experience will be the judges with brad and danny having final say after the workouts-

[pearljammer10]

Bender played less minutes but he played in a grown mens league. Where did Maker played??? Please stop comparing stats. If Bender played in NCAA he would probably average something like 18&10&5&3...

Bender did not earn any meaningful minutes in a "Grown Man League" which is sub-par compared to other Euro leagues. How is Bender going to fair in an even bigger and harder "Grown Mens League"?

Right, because when Kobe Bryant was an 18 year old playing 15 minutes in a big bad grown man's league and only averaged 7.6 points per game he sucked too.

[mmmmm]

I've been excited by the potential of Maker, but that's been tempered by watching video's from his school games.  All the Thon Maker supporters should watch this video.  It's an 11 1/2 minute video showing all the plays he was involved in in one high school game.  He scored 40 points in the game, but he still did not look that good. He has trouble finishing near the hoop against smaller high school players.  His timing when trying to block shots is terrible. His passing is better than I expected and his outside shooting is decent.  I'm not sure he has the coordination or feel for the game to succeed in the NBA.  He's no where close to Bender's level.  I'd still take a shot at him with the 23rd or 31st pick though considering his height and athleticism.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YflrrBzqFzQ

Yeah, Maker doesn't look like this incredible fluid athlete by any stretch of the imagination.

Compare that to Bender in the highlights below against similar competition and it's night and day admittedly this is video highlights).  Bender moves much better and is more skilled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbrXB3Lcung

Here is one that's a little more current, from a game last December.  This is against men who are typically 5-8 years older.   Unfortunately, this highlight video only focuses on offense and doesn't show his defense.   It does show his foot speed on a few of the plays, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYQ5TIbVsy4

[mmmmm]

Never done anything except dominate FIBA en route to the all-time best EWP of any Euro prospect..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

Please post your stats your touting because these stink.

http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/p/pid/100891/_//players.html

Hmm, isn't that the equivalent of 10th grade stats?

No idea. He only asked for stats so I gave them. I don't even know what FIBA is.

Here are Bender's more complete stats:

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Dragan-Bender/Summary/41582

[EvilEmpire]

So back in 2014 both Bender and Sabonis played in FIBA U18 European Championship. Sabonis was 18 and Bender was 16yr. (there is actually 1.5 yrs age difference between the 2) The U18 European Championship games are actually played in July so Bender (age 18) is still eligible to play. In the Lithuania vs Croatia game Sabonis 2 pts and 11 rbs Bender 34 pts 14rbs

Sabonis - 15.9 ppg 12rpg 3.6 apg
http://www.fibaeurope.com/compID_8aYeHlfuGF-mF5IqO8aFH1.season_2014.roundID_10067.teamID_2135.playerID_84314.html

Bender - 14.4 ppg 10.4 rpg 4.9 apg

http://www.fibaeurope.com/compID_8aYeHlfuGF-mF5IqO8aFH1.season_2014.roundID_10067.teamID_2168.playerID_100891.html

Thon Maker 2015 played in the Nike Hoop Summit USA vs World
14 minutes 2 pts  (0-5 FG) 10rbs
Same game on World team as well
Skal Labisserie
27 mins 21pts (9-15 FG) 6 rbs

Everyone sees those HS highlights from 2 years and thinks this guy is unbelievable but the true is against top talent he is not.  Stop being that guy and do some research.