Author Topic: Bender vs Sabonis  (Read 31982 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #60 on: May 21, 2016, 03:13:31 PM »

Offline The Rondo Show

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2898
  • Tommy Points: 364
  • Hook 'Em
These two have often been talked about and compared vs each other. However, it looks like they have met before and Bender completely dominated the matchup. This was July 2014, so Bender was 16 and Sabonis 18.


Bender     vs      Sabonis

Minutes  29 - 26
Pts         34 - 2
Reb        14 - 11
Ast         2 - 1
Stl          2 - 1
Blk         2 - 2
FG         10/14 - 1/8
FT          5/7 - 0/0
3PT        3/5  -  0/1
TO's         0 - 1

Full game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T111y-x5Wm8

Box Score
http://www.fibaeurope.com/compID_8aYeHlfuGF-mF5IqO8aFH1.season_2014.roundID_10067.gameID_10069-B-4-2.html

TP
DKC Suns

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #61 on: May 21, 2016, 03:29:56 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8098
  • Tommy Points: 533
Bender is a project. There is no doubt about that. He's the youngest player in the draft. Too skinny. Raw. But he has certain characteristics that are hard to ignore. Drafting him Bender is not a "win now" move. But that doesn't mean it might not be the right move down the road. This is where the international scouting comes into play. I am fine with taking Bender if that is what they decide if they truly believe that kid could be very very good one day. The other options like Hield or Murray etc to don't project to be star type players IMO.

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #62 on: May 21, 2016, 03:32:39 PM »

Offline ederson

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2896
  • Tommy Points: 279
I believe Pau avg 4/2 in 26 games at age 19 for Barcelona.

Prior to getting picked 3rd overall in 2001, gasol accomplished :

-In his final season in the ACB, Gasol averaged 12.4 points and 5.8 rebounds in 24.7 minutes per game.[5] Barcelona was victorious in the Spanish National Cup championship game in 2001, and Gasol was named Most Valuable Player-

Gasol  didn't come to the states until he was 21, so compare their 18/19 year stats. Pretty similar.
pau gasol was 20 years old in the year 2000.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/pau-gasol-1.html#per_game::none

in the 1999-2000 season (i believe the season he was between 19 and 20 years of age) he averaged 4.2 ppg and 2.6 rpg in 14.8 minutes per game.  (close to bender's current numbers, and bender is 18)

the following season (when he was between 20 and 21 years old -> also the age that Porzingis was when he got drafted) pau averaged 11.4 ppg and 5.2 rpg in 23.9 minutes per game.

The very small detail you left out is that Israeli league compared to league acb is like nbdl to NBA.

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #63 on: May 21, 2016, 03:33:11 PM »

Offline alldaboston

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4170
  • Tommy Points: 324
I believe Pau avg 4/2 in 26 games at age 19 for Barcelona.

Prior to getting picked 3rd overall in 2001, gasol accomplished :

-In his final season in the ACB, Gasol averaged 12.4 points and 5.8 rebounds in 24.7 minutes per game.[5] Barcelona was victorious in the Spanish National Cup championship game in 2001, and Gasol was named Most Valuable Player-

Gasol  didn't come to the states until he was 21, so compare their 18/19 year stats. Pretty similar.
pau gasol was 20 years old in the year 2000.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/pau-gasol-1.html#per_game::none

in the 1999-2000 season (i believe the season he was between 19 and 20 years of age) he averaged 4.2 ppg and 2.6 rpg in 14.8 minutes per game.  (close to bender's current numbers, and bender is 18)

the following season (when he was between 20 and 21 years old -> also the age that Porzingis was when he got drafted) pau averaged 11.4 ppg and 5.2 rpg in 23.9 minutes per game.

But why are you automatically assuming he would reach gasol level at 19-20?(MVP)

Where in my post did I say that?
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #64 on: May 21, 2016, 03:34:48 PM »

Offline alldaboston

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4170
  • Tommy Points: 324
I believe Pau avg 4/2 in 26 games at age 19 for Barcelona.

Prior to getting picked 3rd overall in 2001, gasol accomplished :

-In his final season in the ACB, Gasol averaged 12.4 points and 5.8 rebounds in 24.7 minutes per game.[5] Barcelona was victorious in the Spanish National Cup championship game in 2001, and Gasol was named Most Valuable Player-

Gasol  didn't come to the states until he was 21, so compare their 18/19 year stats. Pretty similar.
pau gasol was 20 years old in the year 2000.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/pau-gasol-1.html#per_game::none

in the 1999-2000 season (i believe the season he was between 19 and 20 years of age) he averaged 4.2 ppg and 2.6 rpg in 14.8 minutes per game.  (close to bender's current numbers, and bender is 18)

the following season (when he was between 20 and 21 years old -> also the age that Porzingis was when he got drafted) pau averaged 11.4 ppg and 5.2 rpg in 23.9 minutes per game.

The very small detail you left out is that Israeli league compared to league acb is like nbdl to NBA.

Someone asked to compare their stats at the same age. That's all I'm doing. I'm not making any assumptions or any projections. Im just stating stats.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #65 on: May 21, 2016, 03:35:45 PM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8497
  • Tommy Points: 975
I believe Pau avg 4/2 in 26 games at age 19 for Barcelona.

Prior to getting picked 3rd overall in 2001, gasol accomplished :

-In his final season in the ACB, Gasol averaged 12.4 points and 5.8 rebounds in 24.7 minutes per game.[5] Barcelona was victorious in the Spanish National Cup championship game in 2001, and Gasol was named Most Valuable Player-

Gasol  didn't come to the states until he was 21, so compare their 18/19 year stats. Pretty similar.
pau gasol was 20 years old in the year 2000.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/pau-gasol-1.html#per_game::none

in the 1999-2000 season (i believe the season he was between 19 and 20 years of age) he averaged 4.2 ppg and 2.6 rpg in 14.8 minutes per game.  (close to bender's current numbers, and bender is 18)

the following season (when he was between 20 and 21 years old -> also the age that Porzingis was when he got drafted) pau averaged 11.4 ppg and 5.2 rpg in 23.9 minutes per game.

The very small detail you left out is that Israeli league compared to league acb is like nbdl to NBA.

A smaller detail that you left out is that the international game is much tougher now than it was back 15-16 years ago when Pau played. It literally is a global game now and the talent throughout has risen exponentially.

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #66 on: May 21, 2016, 03:37:21 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
Bender is a project. There is no doubt about that. He's the youngest player in the draft. Too skinny. Raw. But he has certain characteristics that are hard to ignore. Drafting him Bender is not a "win now" move. But that doesn't mean it might not be the right move down the road. This is where the international scouting comes into play. I am fine with taking Bender if that is what they decide if they truly believe that kid could be very very good one day. The other options like Hield or Murray etc to don't project to be star type players IMO.

i agree with some of your pts.

And I agree with some others, that Bender could essentially turn out to be KO part 2 but longer and a little quicker.  Even with added strength just the way Bender is (more perimeter and less likely to battle in the post) his rebounding numbers likely won't be exceptional.  Maybe 7 or 8 per game.   

I think the Celts really need to add some players that can rebound bc it was one of our weakest area last season.  And in this draft there are lots of "potential"  good rebounders down the line than top level right now.   Minus Domantas Sabonis.  His rebounding will absolutely translate at the NBA level

If Danny grabs Bender and Sabonis , I'm ok with this.  And you can add decent looking SG or SF prospects later in the draft. As their are many this season.  Many that can defend,  shoot the ball. For example Hart, Blossomgame,  Ellis,  gbinije,  Richardson, Brogdon, Beasley, MCcaw, the list is long

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #67 on: May 21, 2016, 03:43:06 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 03:49:52 PM by triboy16f »

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #68 on: May 21, 2016, 03:45:14 PM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8497
  • Tommy Points: 975

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #69 on: May 21, 2016, 03:46:42 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8098
  • Tommy Points: 533
Bender is a project. There is no doubt about that. He's the youngest player in the draft. Too skinny. Raw. But he has certain characteristics that are hard to ignore. Drafting him Bender is not a "win now" move. But that doesn't mean it might not be the right move down the road. This is where the international scouting comes into play. I am fine with taking Bender if that is what they decide if they truly believe that kid could be very very good one day. The other options like Hield or Murray etc to don't project to be star type players IMO.

i agree with some of your pts.

And I agree with some others, that Bender could essentially turn out to be KO part 2 but longer and a little quicker.  Even with added strength just the way Bender is (more perimeter and less likely to battle in the post) his rebounding numbers likely won't be exceptional.  Maybe 7 or 8 per game.   

I think the Celts really need to add some players that can rebound bc it was one of our weakest area last season.  And in this draft there are lots of "potential"  good rebounders down the line than top level right now.   Minus Domantas Sabonis.  His rebounding will absolutely translate at the NBA level

If Danny grabs Bender and Sabonis , I'm ok with this.  And you can add decent looking SG or SF prospects later in the draft. As their are many this season.  Many that can defend,  shoot the ball. For example Hart, Blossomgame,  Ellis,  gbinije,  Richardson, Brogdon, Beasley, MCcaw, the list is long
I can't really disagree with anything you said above. The intriguing the thing that I find with Bender is his defensive potential. He has great length and better mobility than Olynyk ever did. How good he can get will probably depend on his physical maturation.

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #70 on: May 21, 2016, 03:52:49 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
more Sabonis highlights

vs San Francisco

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_0RMk_wJpQ

vs Portland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7plcpi9vyY

vs Pepperdine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_0RMk_wJpQ

vs PAcific

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpiduToxKzk

vs Loyola Marymount

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqSIqO3WuAU

Dude, those teams suck.

A for effort. F for execution.

There are more and more highlights.   Sabonis rarely had a bad game last season. And he didn't face all sucky teams.   Getting to the sweet 16, you are not facing sucky teams left and right

I just want people to see for themselves if we draft Sabonis, what kind of player he is.   High IQ, High Motor,  good touch around the rim (his FG per was top 5)  and top level rebounder (top 3).

I respect his relentless pursuit of the ball.  Reminds me of how badly Tristant Thompson (even though he is only 6'8") wants the ball

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #71 on: May 21, 2016, 04:00:29 PM »

Offline alldaboston

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4170
  • Tommy Points: 324
Triboy what will you do if Sabonis materializes into nothing in the NBA and ends up being a bust?
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #72 on: May 21, 2016, 04:00:50 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
Look at this game particularly

vs PAcific

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpiduToxKzk


He is playing against two bigger/longer guys.   It doesn't matter 20 rebound game.  He flourishes in physical play.  this game looks like wrestling match.   

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #73 on: May 21, 2016, 04:02:07 PM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8497
  • Tommy Points: 975
more Sabonis highlights

vs San Francisco

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_0RMk_wJpQ

vs Portland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7plcpi9vyY

vs Pepperdine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_0RMk_wJpQ

vs PAcific

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpiduToxKzk

vs Loyola Marymount

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqSIqO3WuAU

Dude, those teams suck.

A for effort. F for execution.

There are more and more highlights.   Sabonis rarely had a bad game last season. And he didn't face all sucky teams.   Getting to the sweet 16, you are not facing sucky teams left and right

I just want people to see for themselves if we draft Sabonis, what kind of player he is.   High IQ, High Motor,  good touch around the rim (his FG per was top 5)  and top level rebounder (top 3).

I respect his relentless pursuit of the ball.  Reminds me of how badly Tristant Thompson (even though he is only 6'8) wants the ball

I like Sabonis, but you putting highlight after highlight vs inferior talent doesn't change what he is and what his shortcomings are. He played in a mid major conference and simply didn't face the level of competition players do in power conferences. This is the reality of it. He has the potential to be a solid rotation player, but he needs to improve his perimeter game A LOT and extend his range out to the 3pt line. He hit 5 3pt shots all season and there is a 4 foot difference between NBA 3's and college 3's.

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #74 on: May 21, 2016, 04:02:54 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
Triboy what will you do if Sabonis materializes into nothing in the NBA and ends up being a bust?

He won't.  Worst case he is going to be a better Sullinger. 

And if he is a bust (after 2-3 seasons at the NBA level) I will be the 1st one to admit it.    You can add Aaron Gordon and Jordan Mickey on this list