Author Topic: Bender vs Sabonis  (Read 31829 times)

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Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2016, 01:14:45 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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You know who Bender reminds me of.  Even his lack of stats to go by (both players had incomplete stats to go by prior to the draft)

Nikoloz Tskitishvili - 5th overall pick - Denver Nuggets (and we all know what happened to him)

2002 Scouting Report:

Strengths: Offensively there isn’t much Tskitishvili can’t do he is a versatile scorer capable of shooting from the outside or slashing in the lane ... Has great size for his position at 6-11 there isn’t many small forwards he won’t be able to shoot over ... Prefers to set-up his offense by receiving the ball out on the perimeter where he is a threat to penetrate or shoot from 18 ft out ... Due to his long arms he has shown the ability to be a adequate shot-blocker thanks to his long arms and decent leaping ability ... Runs the floor extremely well and is blessed with great agility ... Has excellent court vision and shows some above average passing skills ... Handles the ball very well for a player his size and is decently quick when doing a move off the dribble ... Owns great touch around the basket when getting the ball down low ... Tskitishvili is a competent rebounder thanks to his solid leaping ability and positioning when under the boards ... Plays well when under pressure due to his confidence and competitiveness ... Has loads of potential something which will drive his stock come draft day ... Solid free throw shooter ... Unlike many young players his age his is blessed with a great sense of the game that simply can’t be taught .

Tskitishvili highlights  (7 ft player,  nice wingspan,  Mobile, Not quick off the ground nor can jump high like bender, mechanical jump shot, can drive in/pass)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsdUPklY5hc
Nice find. That's certainly a bit concerning how similar the reports are.

However, you can't read too much into it because Pau Gasols scouting report is also eerily similar. Furthermore, that report you quoted lists work ethic and overconfidence as weaknesses and Bender seems to be the opposite. when comparing busts I would think the weaknesses are far more relevant than the strengths.

Gasol had the stats prior to the draft that didn't make you feel uneasy

Tskitishvili  and Bender share the "mysterious lack of stats" prior to the draft.  And they share quite a bit of similarities(face value) as 7ft tall PFs by position with SF skills. Mobile, long

Tskitishvili could not box out against NBA calibre pfs during his time in the NBA.  He really struggled to let his strengths shine vs getting his weaknesses exposed.   Its the same thing that is happening with Mirotic.   He has become an off the bench 3 pt specialist vs how well he was playing in Europe

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2016, 01:25:33 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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You know who Bender reminds me of.  Even his lack of stats to go by (both players had incomplete stats to go by prior to the draft)

Nikoloz Tskitishvili - 5th overall pick - Denver Nuggets (and we all know what happened to him)

2002 Scouting Report:

Strengths: Offensively there isn’t much Tskitishvili can’t do he is a versatile scorer capable of shooting from the outside or slashing in the lane ... Has great size for his position at 6-11 there isn’t many small forwards he won’t be able to shoot over ... Prefers to set-up his offense by receiving the ball out on the perimeter where he is a threat to penetrate or shoot from 18 ft out ... Due to his long arms he has shown the ability to be a adequate shot-blocker thanks to his long arms and decent leaping ability ... Runs the floor extremely well and is blessed with great agility ... Has excellent court vision and shows some above average passing skills ... Handles the ball very well for a player his size and is decently quick when doing a move off the dribble ... Owns great touch around the basket when getting the ball down low ... Tskitishvili is a competent rebounder thanks to his solid leaping ability and positioning when under the boards ... Plays well when under pressure due to his confidence and competitiveness ... Has loads of potential something which will drive his stock come draft day ... Solid free throw shooter ... Unlike many young players his age his is blessed with a great sense of the game that simply can’t be taught .

Tskitishvili highlights  (7 ft player,  nice wingspan,  Mobile, Not quick off the ground nor can jump high like bender, mechanical jump shot, can drive in/pass)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsdUPklY5hc
Nice find. That's certainly a bit concerning how similar the reports are.

However, you can't read too much into it because Pau Gasols scouting report is also eerily similar. Furthermore, that report you quoted lists work ethic and overconfidence as weaknesses and Bender seems to be the opposite. when comparing busts I would think the weaknesses are far more relevant than the strengths.

Gasol had the stats prior to the draft that didn't make you feel uneasy

Tskitishvili  and Bender share the "mysterious lack of stats" prior to the draft.  And they share quite a bit of similarities(face value) as 7ft tall PFs by position with SF skills. Mobile, long

Tskitishvili could not box out against NBA calibre pfs during his time in the NBA.  He really struggled to let his strengths shine vs getting his weaknesses exposed.   Its the same thing that is happening with Mirotic.   He has become an off the bench 3 pt specialist vs how well he was playing in Europe
Interesting thought.

The word uneasy I think is perfect.

Anyone who is sold on Bender, I think needs to reevaluate. There simply isnt enough info to be sold on the guy. There also isnt enough info to condemn the guy.

The two things that make Bender different are his work ethic/character and his defense specifically on the perimeter. Those are two things that if Bender actually has (and theres no way to really verify this untill Danny gets him in a gym) really raise up his floor and make him less of a risk. Mirotic you have to also keep in mind, is not a defensive player at all.

As for Sabonis, I see him as a really nice Sully replacement. I dont think he has quite the natural talent Sully had, but he could be a nice injuryless fatless Sullinger. I could see him being like an improved version of rookie Sully (which would be a very nice player) I just dont really want to use our Nets pick on that player. Now if we do something like trade the 3rd pick to Denver for Nurkic and 7 or something like that then Im less against taking Sabonis.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2016, 01:28:48 PM »

Offline TwinTower14

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I believe Pau avg 4/2 in 26 games at age 19 for Barcelona.

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2016, 01:32:18 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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You know who Bender reminds me of.  Even his lack of stats to go by (both players had incomplete stats to go by prior to the draft)

Nikoloz Tskitishvili - 5th overall pick - Denver Nuggets (and we all know what happened to him)

2002 Scouting Report:

Strengths: Offensively there isn’t much Tskitishvili can’t do he is a versatile scorer capable of shooting from the outside or slashing in the lane ... Has great size for his position at 6-11 there isn’t many small forwards he won’t be able to shoot over ... Prefers to set-up his offense by receiving the ball out on the perimeter where he is a threat to penetrate or shoot from 18 ft out ... Due to his long arms he has shown the ability to be a adequate shot-blocker thanks to his long arms and decent leaping ability ... Runs the floor extremely well and is blessed with great agility ... Has excellent court vision and shows some above average passing skills ... Handles the ball very well for a player his size and is decently quick when doing a move off the dribble ... Owns great touch around the basket when getting the ball down low ... Tskitishvili is a competent rebounder thanks to his solid leaping ability and positioning when under the boards ... Plays well when under pressure due to his confidence and competitiveness ... Has loads of potential something which will drive his stock come draft day ... Solid free throw shooter ... Unlike many young players his age his is blessed with a great sense of the game that simply can’t be taught .

Tskitishvili highlights  (7 ft player,  nice wingspan,  Mobile, Not quick off the ground nor can jump high like bender, mechanical jump shot, can drive in/pass)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsdUPklY5hc
Nice find. That's certainly a bit concerning how similar the reports are.

However, you can't read too much into it because Pau Gasols scouting report is also eerily similar. Furthermore, that report you quoted lists work ethic and overconfidence as weaknesses and Bender seems to be the opposite. when comparing busts I would think the weaknesses are far more relevant than the strengths.

Gasol had the stats prior to the draft that didn't make you feel uneasy

Tskitishvili  and Bender share the "mysterious lack of stats" prior to the draft.  And they share quite a bit of similarities(face value) as 7ft tall PFs by position with SF skills. Mobile, long

Tskitishvili could not box out against NBA calibre pfs during his time in the NBA.  He really struggled to let his strengths shine vs getting his weaknesses exposed.   Its the same thing that is happening with Mirotic.   He has become an off the bench 3 pt specialist vs how well he was playing in Europe
Interesting thought.

The word uneasy I think is perfect.

Anyone who is sold on Bender, I think needs to reevaluate. There simply isnt enough info to be sold on the guy. There also isnt enough info to condemn the guy.

The two things that make Bender different are his work ethic/character and his defense specifically on the perimeter. Those are two things that if Bender actually has (and theres no way to really verify this untill Danny gets him in a gym) really raise up his floor and make him less of a risk. Mirotic you have to also keep in mind, is not a defensive player at all.

As for Sabonis, I see him as a really nice Sully replacement. I dont think he has quite the natural talent Sully had, but he could be a nice injuryless fatless Sullinger. I could see him being like an improved version of rookie Sully (which would be a very nice player) I just dont really want to use our Nets pick on that player. Now if we do something like trade the 3rd pick to Denver for Nurkic and 7 or something like that then Im less against taking Sabonis.

Fair enough.  For me ,I like Sabonis and don't care how we get him onboard.    If we can with the 16 or trade up a few spots (without much fuss) sign me up asap

It will be an interesting situation if the Celts could draft both bender and Sabonis and would love to see how this will pan out.   Bender vs Sabonis in the same lineup and also as a possible pairing

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #49 on: May 21, 2016, 01:36:15 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I believe Pau avg 4/2 in 26 games at age 19 for Barcelona.

Prior to getting picked 3rd overall in 2001, gasol accomplished :

-In his final season in the ACB, Gasol averaged 12.4 points and 5.8 rebounds in 24.7 minutes per game.[5] Barcelona was victorious in the Spanish National Cup championship game in 2001, and Gasol was named Most Valuable Player-

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #50 on: May 21, 2016, 01:40:34 PM »

Offline TwinTower14

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I believe Pau avg 4/2 in 26 games at age 19 for Barcelona.

Prior to getting picked 3rd overall in 2001, gasol accomplished :

-In his final season in the ACB, Gasol averaged 12.4 points and 5.8 rebounds in 24.7 minutes per game.[5] Barcelona was victorious in the Spanish National Cup championship game in 2001, and Gasol was named Most Valuable Player-

Gasol  didn't come to the states until he was 21, so compare their 18/19 year stats. Pretty similar.

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #51 on: May 21, 2016, 01:45:43 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Professional scouts rate Bender very highly across the board as far I'm aware, and Bender has stood out at every level of competition where he was close in age to his competitors.

My only concern for Bender as a prospect surrounds his ability to put on muscle.  If he can build his frame without sacrificing speed or agility, I have full confidence he will at least be a useful player.  And I think there's a good chance he becomes the sort of high level role player who makes a huge impact because of his rare combination of size and skill.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #52 on: May 21, 2016, 01:58:37 PM »

Offline TwinTower14

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If Bender was born in the state, he would be the top recruit of his class, McDonald all American. Would have played one year a of the elite programs and been the number pick of that draft. I firmly believe that.

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2016, 02:13:07 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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Professional scouts rate Bender very highly across the board as far I'm aware, and Bender has stood out at every level of competition where he was close in age to his competitors.

My only concern for Bender as a prospect surrounds his ability to put on muscle.  If he can build his frame without sacrificing speed or agility, I have full confidence he will at least be a useful player.  And I think there's a good chance he becomes the sort of high level role player who makes a huge impact because of his rare combination of size and skill.

Forget high level role player, he could be a star if he can get it together.

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #54 on: May 21, 2016, 02:15:20 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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I believe Pau avg 4/2 in 26 games at age 19 for Barcelona.

Prior to getting picked 3rd overall in 2001, gasol accomplished :

-In his final season in the ACB, Gasol averaged 12.4 points and 5.8 rebounds in 24.7 minutes per game.[5] Barcelona was victorious in the Spanish National Cup championship game in 2001, and Gasol was named Most Valuable Player-

Gasol  didn't come to the states until he was 21, so compare their 18/19 year stats. Pretty similar.
pau gasol was 20 years old in the year 2000.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/pau-gasol-1.html#per_game::none

in the 1999-2000 season (i believe the season he was between 19 and 20 years of age) he averaged 4.2 ppg and 2.6 rpg in 14.8 minutes per game.  (close to bender's current numbers, and bender is 18)

the following season (when he was between 20 and 21 years old -> also the age that Porzingis was when he got drafted) pau averaged 11.4 ppg and 5.2 rpg in 23.9 minutes per game.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #55 on: May 21, 2016, 02:22:38 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I believe Pau avg 4/2 in 26 games at age 19 for Barcelona.

Prior to getting picked 3rd overall in 2001, gasol accomplished :

-In his final season in the ACB, Gasol averaged 12.4 points and 5.8 rebounds in 24.7 minutes per game.[5] Barcelona was victorious in the Spanish National Cup championship game in 2001, and Gasol was named Most Valuable Player-

Gasol  didn't come to the states until he was 21, so compare their 18/19 year stats. Pretty similar.
pau gasol was 20 years old in the year 2000.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/pau-gasol-1.html#per_game::none

in the 1999-2000 season (i believe the season he was between 19 and 20 years of age) he averaged 4.2 ppg and 2.6 rpg in 14.8 minutes per game.  (close to bender's current numbers, and bender is 18)

the following season (when he was between 20 and 21 years old -> also the age that Porzingis was when he got drafted) pau averaged 11.4 ppg and 5.2 rpg in 23.9 minutes per game.

But why are you automatically assuming he would reach gasol level at 19-20?(MVP)

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #56 on: May 21, 2016, 02:25:36 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Professional scouts rate Bender very highly across the board as far I'm aware, and Bender has stood out at every level of competition where he was close in age to his competitors.

My only concern for Bender as a prospect surrounds his ability to put on muscle.  If he can build his frame without sacrificing speed or agility, I have full confidence he will at least be a useful player.  And I think there's a good chance he becomes the sort of high level role player who makes a huge impact because of his rare combination of size and skill.

Forget high level role player, he could be a star if he can get it together.

I like the way somebody else put it on here recently, I think it was LooseCannon. I could see Bender becoming the sort of elite role player that makes such a two way impact that people argue about them as a possible top player, sort of like Draymond Green.  Or the comparison I really like - Andrei Kirilenko, who I think would have been a star if he'd played in today's league.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2016, 02:26:01 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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I believe Pau avg 4/2 in 26 games at age 19 for Barcelona.

Prior to getting picked 3rd overall in 2001, gasol accomplished :

-In his final season in the ACB, Gasol averaged 12.4 points and 5.8 rebounds in 24.7 minutes per game.[5] Barcelona was victorious in the Spanish National Cup championship game in 2001, and Gasol was named Most Valuable Player-

Gasol  didn't come to the states until he was 21, so compare their 18/19 year stats. Pretty similar.
pau gasol was 20 years old in the year 2000.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/pau-gasol-1.html#per_game::none

in the 1999-2000 season (i believe the season he was between 19 and 20 years of age) he averaged 4.2 ppg and 2.6 rpg in 14.8 minutes per game.  (close to bender's current numbers, and bender is 18)

the following season (when he was between 20 and 21 years old -> also the age that Porzingis was when he got drafted) pau averaged 11.4 ppg and 5.2 rpg in 23.9 minutes per game.

But why are you automatically assuming he would reach gasol level at 19-20?(MVP)

why are you automatically assuming he won't ?

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #58 on: May 21, 2016, 02:26:28 PM »

Offline TwinTower14

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The last two euro fiba tourneys he played in, which he was at least two years younger and sometimes three years younger than the competition, He average 15/10, fourth in the whole tourney in assist and led in blocks. Basically a freshman and sophomore in high school doing that....

Re: Bender vs Sabonis
« Reply #59 on: May 21, 2016, 02:49:57 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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If Bender was born in the state, he would be the top recruit of his class, McDonald all American. Would have played one year a of the elite programs and been the number pick of that draft. I firmly believe that.

That's what I think too. I have a feeling he's going to blow teams away during his workouts.