Author Topic: Misconceptions about the #3 pick and the 2016 draft  (Read 6520 times)

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Misconceptions about the #3 pick and the 2016 draft
« on: May 20, 2016, 11:58:36 AM »

Offline Granath

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There are a bunch of misconceptions about the #3 pick and the 2016 draft this year. Let's clear them up.

(1) "It's a two player draft"

No, it's not. Last year was supposedly a two player draft and the #2 player wasn't picked until #3. The time before it was a two player draft the #3 pick was a 4 time All-Star. Simply put, the only way we'll know it was a two player draft is 5 or 10 years from now. What typically happens is that there are one or two clear-cut prospects due to talent, age or hype prior to the pre-draft workouts. Most often players separate themselves in those workouts. Since those workouts haven't happened yet, there's not a lot of buzz out there yet on some other player.

For instance, if Jamal Murray comes into workouts and shows a better ability to pass or better-than-thought physical skills, he's going to SHOOT up in value. If Jaylen Brown interviews well and shows more polish then he's going to get the buzz. But until those workouts happen, we won't know.

(2) "The #3 pick is not worth that much"

Since 1980 #3 picks have actually fared better than #2 picks. In the last 15 years guys like Beal, Harden, Hortford, 'Melo and Gasol have been picked that this spot. Historically it's not cheap to trade for the #3 pick either. It's worth far more than an above-average vet or just a middle-of-the-road player.

(3) "Well, that history is all fine and nice but that has nothing to do with this particular draft"

See point #1. The player evaluations aren't in yet. What looks like an obvious truth now will look very, very different by draft night. It's always does. Plus there's always a perceived value with a draft pick that high. The Seven Dwarves could be the prime prospects this year and there would still be a perceived, historical value in being able to pick Dopey 3rd.

4. "There's no difference between #3 and #10 in this draft"

Hogwash. No one is predicting Bender, Hield or Murray to fall to #10. Right now there's a tier 1 in Simmons and Ingram. That may very well change in the pre-draft workouts. Then there's a tier 2 of Bender, Hield, Murry, Dunn and maybe Brown. That WILL change in the pre-draft workouts. Someone may move up. Someone will move down. But there's clearly a pecking order that doesn't stretch out of the top 7.

5. "There's no difference between choosing #3 and #6 in this draft"

Oh rly? So you'd just as well rather have the #6 pick?  :)

Simply put, even if all things were equal - and they're not - being able to pick 3rd allows a team to pick the player who is the best fit who fills the biggest need. That was the biggest problem with the Marcus Smart pick a couple of years ago. I love the kid and I'm still very high on him long-term because I think he's going to be a star. I also think he was probably the BPA at the time. But in terms of need, he wasn't an ideal choice because the Cs already had enough guards.

At the very worst #3 allows you to pick for your system and your needs. That alone can make or break a player's career. Don't underestimate it.

6. "The Celtics have too many picks and will get held over a barrel in trades"

Come on. This is Danny we're talking about. Since when does he get held over a barrel in trades? No, the team can't use 8 picks. But the Cs are just one team. Those picks are assets that are going to be in demand by 29 other teams. He'll find willing trade partners in those teams. After all, until you get to the 2nd round ones in the mid-40s, the picks have an inherent value. Danny isn't going to be forced to just give them away because he can't use them. There's an established market for picks just like there is any other good. It may be he just trades picks for future picks but there's no worry that he's going to get fleeced in trade deals. After all, Danny is smart enough to know that helping another team in the NBA directly hurts your team. Thus he'd waste the picks before giving them away in a lopsided deal.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this all works out by June 23rd because no matter what this 48 win team is going to get better.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Misconceptions about the #3 pick and the 2016 draft
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2016, 12:03:25 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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This is a great post that reflects a lot of my sentiments about this draft. TP

Last years 'clear cut two player draft' of Towns and Okafor not only had Russell going 2nd but also Porzingis looking better than both the 2nd and 3rd picked players.

This sort of thing happens every year which is why you often get players chosen at 3,4,5,6 range that are franchise cornerstone level players or at least multiple time all-stars.

Re: Misconceptions about the #3 pick and the 2016 draft
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2016, 12:04:01 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Some nice points. Right now, it is clear that Ingram and Simmons are the two best prospects then there is a HUGE drop. However, as you mentioned between now and draft day so much can happen. The top 2 could have some poor showing and more importantly guys with big question marks like bender murray and Brown could answer some big questions in workouts. I mean if brown comes in and shoots lights out in workouts he will rise, Bender the same. I could see teams absolutely falling in love with heild etc etc.

Problem is, at the moment it is a 2 player draft. Today our pick doesnt have half the value as the pick ahead of it and that is a huge bummer.

The nice thing about the 3-7 log jam is that I think if you asked a hundred scouts to rate them all theyd come through pretty close in ratings across the board. however, I think a bunch of teams are going to fall in love with specific players. It makes a ton of sense for Philly to want Dunn or even Murray and we are already hearing that Phoenix loves Bender. Maybe you get a team like Denver who want to put a Murray or a Hield next to Mudiay long term, or perhaps Chicago sees Dunn as the pg of the future. What if New York decides they think Dunn or Murray could be their pg of the future?

well then we could be looking at a situation where Chicago, New York, Philly, Denver, and Phoenix are all in a bidding war for that pick, inflating its value.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 12:09:11 PM by Ilikesports17 »
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Misconceptions about the #3 pick and the 2016 draft
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2016, 12:09:40 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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Great post. TP.

Re: Misconceptions about the #3 pick and the 2016 draft
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2016, 12:15:03 PM »

Offline mef730

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Interesting thoughts, TP for being thoughtful.

#1: It is a two-player draft. Last year, the gap between #2 and #3 was smaller than it is this year.

#2: The number 3 pick varies in value based on the gap between #2 and #3. I agree, though, that the opinion that it isn't worth very much is simply wrong.

#3: The only history that will matter is when we look back five years from now. History has no more or less to do with this draft than any other draft.

#4, #5: Absolutely correct.

#6: That does make me nervous. The biggest thing going for us is that the theme of this draft seems to be "it only takes one..." It only takes one GM to fall in love with a player. It only takes one player to separate themself from the pack. It only takes one swap of draft picks to position ourselves better. Etc.

This draft is going to be very interesting, however it shakes out.

Mike

Re: Misconceptions about the #3 pick and the 2016 draft
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2016, 12:20:15 PM »

Offline mrceltic

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A voice of reason, TP to you!

Re: Misconceptions about the #3 pick and the 2016 draft
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2016, 12:22:06 PM »

Offline footey

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TP, made my day.

Re: Misconceptions about the #3 pick and the 2016 draft
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2016, 12:24:32 PM »

Offline Granath

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Some nice points. Right now, it is clear that Ingram and Simmons are the two best prospects then there is a HUGE drop. However, as you mentioned between now and draft day so much can happen. The top 2 could have some poor showing and more importantly guys with big question marks like bender murray and Brown could answer some big questions in workouts. I mean if brown comes in and shoots lights out in workouts he will rise, Bender the same. I could see teams absolutely falling in love with heild etc etc.

Problem is, at the moment it is a 2 player draft. Today our pick doesnt have half the value as the pick ahead of it and that is a huge bummer.

The nice thing about the 3-7 log jam is that I think if you asked a hundred scouts to rate them all theyd come through pretty close in ratings across the board. however, I think a bunch of teams are going to fall in love with specific players. It makes a ton of sense for Philly to want Dunn or even Murray and we are already hearing that Phoenix loves Bender. Maybe you get a team like Denver who want to put a Murray or a Hield next to Mudiay long term, or perhaps Chicago sees Dunn as the pg of the future. What if New York decides they think Dunn or Murray could be their pg of the future?

well then we could be looking at a situation where Chicago, New York, Philly, Denver, and Phoenix are all in a bidding war for that pick, inflating its value.

I agree with you. I foresee a few scenarios:

(1) Someone separates themselves from the pack to become a clear cut #3 (or even #2 like last year)
(2) Individual teams fall in love with a particular guy and want to move up. However, Danny may very well do the same and not want to trade out of that spot.
(3) If Danny doesn't fall in love, he'll move down and take the BPA plus collect more assets.

You said "Today our pick doesnt have half the value as the pick ahead of it and that is a huge bummer. "

You're 100% right. Today it doesn't because there are two guys who are perceived to be "knowns" and then there are 3-5 guys you would have to say are more "unknowns". But that's why trades - even big ones - don't usually happen until draft night. The process has to play itself out so that guys feel more or less comfortable with the "unknowns". By the time the draft rolls around the value for the 3rd pick will be established and it will without a doubt be at a higher value than it is today.

It would have been nice but I'm not lamenting that we didn't get the 1st or 2nd pick. I'm more than happy with #3 given the original trade. That this 48 win team has such an asset is a wonderful luxury. Plus, there's always this - on June 23rd all of those 20 win teams drafting around us are going to get better. But on that night the Nets won't improve their team one bit.   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Misconceptions about the #3 pick and the 2016 draft
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2016, 01:51:24 PM »

Offline The One

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Yes...you nailed it.

There's still over a month until the draft!  That's an eternity!!  A million things will change!!!

Re: Misconceptions about the #3 pick and the 2016 draft
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2016, 05:14:25 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 Stop saying it's a two player draft!!!

 Just admit you don't know who's the next best player, because there is more assuredly multiple all stars to be drafted #3 and a after. You just don't know who they are. It's literally Ainge and Co. Job to know who those players are.

 

Re: Misconceptions about the #3 pick and the 2016 draft
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2016, 05:29:48 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Interesting thoughts, TP for being thoughtful.

#1: It is a two-player draft. Last year, the gap between #2 and #3 was smaller than it is this year.

#2: The number 3 pick varies in value based on the gap between #2 and #3. I agree, though, that the opinion that it isn't worth very much is simply wrong.

No, actually the number 3 pick varies in value based on the perceived gap between it and #4.

If any one of Bender, Hield, Dunn, Brown or Murray does something to separate themselves in value (i.e., really wow folks in workouts), then that one player would become more desirable to the teams and make having the ability to select that player more valuable.


NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Misconceptions about the #3 pick and the 2016 draft
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2016, 05:49:31 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 What people mean when they say it's a two player draft translated.

 "There are two players heavily hyped, and I don't watch college basketball so I can't see past the hype train"

 How did Greg Oden, Joel Embiid, Michael Olawakandi, Darko Milicic, Adam Morrison turn out? Not good.

 It's not a two player draft, you sound uninformed when you say that.

Re: Misconceptions about the #3 pick and the 2016 draft
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2016, 05:49:44 PM »

Offline Greyman

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TP We are in a good position and don't need to give up the farm to get better.

Re: Misconceptions about the #3 pick and the 2016 draft
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2016, 05:54:59 PM »

Offline Fred Roberts

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My money is on Brown, rising back up and being the pick.

Re: Misconceptions about the #3 pick and the 2016 draft
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2016, 06:03:03 PM »

Offline fubar089

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good post.