Author Topic: Frank Vogel will not return  (Read 6457 times)

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Re: Frank Vogel will not return
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2016, 02:25:02 PM »

Offline Who

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I'd say how little they got out of Monta Ellis was a big factor. His lack of contribution offensively made their offense too limited. I expect that was seen as a failure of Vogel's given Monta's consistent offensive output elsewhere in his career and given that this was an offensive system which Monta should have done well in.

The Pacers never really got to the free-wheeling offense that Vogel was supposed to build. So in that regard, I can see where Bird is coming from. Vogel failed to take the team far enough into the direction Bird wanted them to go. And Vogel failed to get the best out of his 2nd best offensive threat. The Pacers did well in regular season and playoffs but not in the way that Bird had intended (more about their defense than opening up the offense) - the direction he wanted the team to move towards. I don't think Vogel was fired due to a lack of success (45 wins, 7 game 1st round series loss) but due to the style of the team. That Vogel failed to create the type of offensive system that Bird wanted / envisioned.

I am looking forward to seeing the new-look Pacers next season. I think they can do a lot more offensively with a new coach + the continued growth of Myles Turner.

Re: Frank Vogel will not return
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2016, 03:13:07 PM »

Offline passesofftodj

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I'd say how little they got out of Monta Ellis was a big factor. His lack of contribution offensively made their offense too limited. I expect that was seen as a failure of Vogel's given Monta's consistent offensive output elsewhere in his career and given that this was an offensive system which Monta should have done well in.

The Pacers never really got to the free-wheeling offense that Vogel was supposed to build. So in that regard, I can see where Bird is coming from. Vogel failed to take the team far enough into the direction Bird wanted them to go. And Vogel failed to get the best out of his 2nd best offensive threat. The Pacers did well in regular season and playoffs but not in the way that Bird had intended (more about their defense than opening up the offense) - the direction he wanted the team to move towards. I don't think Vogel was fired due to a lack of success (45 wins, 7 game 1st round series loss) but due to the style of the team. That Vogel failed to create the type of offensive system that Bird wanted / envisioned.

I am looking forward to seeing the new-look Pacers next season. I think they can do a lot more offensively with a new coach + the continued growth of Myles Turner.

TP, it was shocking how little they got from Ellis compared with how he played in Dallas.  I do think blame has to go with Vogel more than Bird very recently (post Kawhi trade) as Ellis should have been a stud and Turner looks great.  Way too much get the ball to George with 6 seconds on the clock and see what he can do.  Not enough flow.  Vogel failed to get these particular pieces to work well together offensively.

Re: Frank Vogel will not return
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2016, 06:51:42 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Ellis has never been a good player.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Frank Vogel will not return
« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2016, 06:55:54 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Hope Lakers don't get him.

I'm verrrrry perplexed at this dismissal ......

I don't see them getting a better coach

Or MAYBE .....

Bird wants Doc Rivers ....... :D

Re: Frank Vogel will not return
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2016, 06:56:52 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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Hope Lakers don't get him.

I'm verrrrry perplexed at this dismissal ......

I don't see them getting a better coach

Or MAYBE .....

Bird wants Doc Rivers ....... :D

Lakers already hired Walton. Unless you mean Vogel as an assistant. Which I doubt. He can get much better jobs as a head coach for a better team.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: Frank Vogel will not return
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2016, 09:54:09 PM »

Offline loco_91

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Apparently the early list of candidates to replace him is D'Antoni, Jackson, Shaw, Wittman, and Woodson. LOL.

https://twitter.com/CandaceDBuckner/status/728315835522093056

Re: Frank Vogel will not return
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2016, 10:08:50 PM »

Offline chambers

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His offense was pretty stagnant-much like Scott Brooks.
Very good defensive coaches but lack the ball movement for the fast style with structure that Bird is looking for.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Frank Vogel will not return
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2016, 10:12:19 PM »

Offline loco_91

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His offense was pretty stagnant-much like Scott Brooks.
Very good defensive coaches but lack the ball movement for the fast style with structure that Bird is looking for.

I'm sure the offense will be way more dynamic under Randy Wittman  :laugh:

Re: Frank Vogel will not return
« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2016, 10:31:11 PM »

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Apparently the early list of candidates to replace him is D'Antoni, Jackson, Shaw, Wittman, and Woodson. LOL.

https://twitter.com/CandaceDBuckner/status/728315835522093056

Mark Jackson would be interesting. I'd like to see him get another head coaching job.

Re: Frank Vogel will not return
« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2016, 10:35:18 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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Apparently the early list of candidates to replace him is D'Antoni, Jackson, Shaw, Wittman, and Woodson. LOL.

https://twitter.com/CandaceDBuckner/status/728315835522093056

Mark Jackson would be interesting. I'd like to see him get another head coaching job.

I don't like him on tv (except for "MAMA, THERE GOES THAT MAN!"), so I would be fine with him getting another job
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: Frank Vogel will not return
« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2016, 10:49:55 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Apparently the early list of candidates to replace him is D'Antoni, Jackson, Shaw, Wittman, and Woodson. LOL.

https://twitter.com/CandaceDBuckner/status/728315835522093056

Mark Jackson would be interesting. I'd like to see him get another head coaching job.

He's the kind of coach I'd like to see on the Lakers or Cavs.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Frank Vogel will not return
« Reply #41 on: May 05, 2016, 11:05:17 PM »

Offline bdm860

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Apparently the early list of candidates to replace him is D'Antoni, Jackson, Shaw, Wittman, and Woodson. LOL.

https://twitter.com/CandaceDBuckner/status/728315835522093056

Mark Jackson would be interesting. I'd like to see him get another head coaching job.

He's the kind of coach I'd like to see on the Lakers or Cavs.

Mark Jackson on the Pacers is very interesting, I have to imagine he's a big fan favorite there, being a big factor behind the ECF and Finals teams of '95, '98, '99, '00.  Traded him away only to flounder, then they bring him back and are right back in the ECF again.  He helped them finally get past the Knicks in '95, take the Bulls to 7 in '98, get to the Finals in '00.

And he was Bird's starting PG for all 3 years Bird was coach too.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 11:18:43 PM by bdm860 »

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Re: Frank Vogel will not return
« Reply #42 on: May 05, 2016, 11:28:16 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Apparently the early list of candidates to replace him is D'Antoni, Jackson, Shaw, Wittman, and Woodson. LOL.

https://twitter.com/CandaceDBuckner/status/728315835522093056

D'Antoni sounds perhaps the most reasonable if the Pacers want an all-offense, no-defense team.


#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown)
#JFJM (Just Fire Joe Mazzulla)

Re: Frank Vogel will not return
« Reply #43 on: May 05, 2016, 11:58:02 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Apparently the early list of candidates to replace him is D'Antoni, Jackson, Shaw, Wittman, and Woodson. LOL.

https://twitter.com/CandaceDBuckner/status/728315835522093056

Mark Jackson would be interesting. I'd like to see him get another head coaching job.

He's the kind of coach I'd like to see on the Lakers or Cavs.

Mark Jackson on the Pacers is very interesting, I have to imagine he's a big fan favorite there, being a big factor behind the ECF and Finals teams of '95, '98, '99, '00.  Traded him away only to flounder, then they bring him back and are right back in the ECF again.  He helped them finally get past the Knicks in '95, take the Bulls to 7 in '98, get to the Finals in '00.

And he was Bird's starting PG for all 3 years Bird was coach too.

But look at the Warriors going from Jackson to Kerr.  Jackson had the outdated strategy of pounding the ball inside and Bird wants more smallball. 

Jackson was reportedly LeBron's preference as head coach and even the Cavs weren't dumb enough to let him dictate that choice.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Frank Vogel will not return
« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2016, 12:10:26 AM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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M. Jackson constantly (and incorrectly) says that L.James is the Best Small Forward in NBA history...so, no he will NOT be coaching Larry Bird's team.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.