Author Topic: Envisioning Okafor, Horford Frontcourt pairing.  (Read 6588 times)

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Envisioning Okafor, Horford Frontcourt pairing.
« on: May 05, 2016, 04:14:31 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 A somewhat realistic scenario, and a massive upgrade to our team. We could Keep Amir and Turner in this scenario.

 A big man rotation of Horford, Amir, Okafor Kelly and Mickey would be a huge improvement. I would expect close to 35 ppg and 15rpg per night from Okafor and Horford.

 Something like Jonas the #3 pick and their choice of Rozier, Hunter, Young works salary wise.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 04:41:14 AM by KG Living Legend »

Re: Envisioning Okafor and Horford Frontcourt pairing.
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2016, 04:18:33 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 All Defensive team.

 Amir
 Horford
 Crowder
 Bradley
 Smart

 Offensive Team.

 Okafor
 Horford
 Turner
 Bradley
 Thomas

Re: Envisioning Okafor, Horford Frontcourt pairing.
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2016, 06:31:44 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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So you have a horrible defensive player with a completely one dimensional offensive game (Okafor), and an overglorified role player whos average on defense and completely incapable of scoring unless he's wide open (Horford).

One is an immature head case, and the other is on the decline, and both move like they're in quicksand.

Wow, what a disaster.

Re: Envisioning Okafor, Horford Frontcourt pairing.
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2016, 07:27:22 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Not sure I want Al Horford after the ATL series and what I 've seen in the CAVS series.   His rim protection has been decent.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3213/al-horford

But he has shot like 41% from the field this off season.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3213/al-horford

It is an improvement but it is incremental and not a total game changer.

Not sold of Okafor either. 

Re: Envisioning Okafor, Horford Frontcourt pairing.
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2016, 07:53:41 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Not sure I want Al Horford after the ATL series and what I 've seen in the CAVS series.   His rim protection has been decent.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3213/al-horford

But he has shot like 41% from the field this off season.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3213/al-horford

It is an improvement but it is incremental and not a total game changer.

Not sold of Okafor either.

I think that is pretty well put.

As you say hed be a definite upgrade, but not big enough an upgrade to make take this team to the next level.

Re: Envisioning Okafor, Horford Frontcourt pairing.
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2016, 08:30:27 AM »

Offline CoachBo

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People worried about Okafor who'd blow the 3rd pick in the draft on a scrub like Dragan Bender?

I can see the concern about Horford. Okafor would be a terrific addition to the Celtics, and Ainge is correct to pursue him. He will grow a lot under Brad Stevens.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Envisioning Okafor, Horford Frontcourt pairing.
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2016, 08:36:18 AM »

Offline jambr380

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People worried about Okafor who'd blow the 3rd pick in the draft on a scrub like Dragan Bender?

I can see the concern about Horford. Okafor would be a terrific addition to the Celtics, and Ainge is correct to pursue him. He will grow a lot under Brad Stevens.

If we end up with the 3rd pick and Philly wants to trade Okafor for the pick, then Ainge is [wisely] making that move.

Re: Envisioning Okafor, Horford Frontcourt pairing.
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2016, 08:39:24 AM »

Offline jambr380

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A somewhat realistic scenario, and a massive upgrade to our team. We could Keep Amir and Turner in this scenario.

 A big man rotation of Horford, Amir, Okafor Kelly and Mickey would be a huge improvement. I would expect close to 35 ppg and 15rpg per night from Okafor and Horford.

 Something like Jonas the #3 pick and their choice of Rozier, Hunter, Young works salary wise.

Probably best to take the choice out of it. We should be sending Young in any trade where we are looking to match salary as a throw-in (not necessary in this case). Rozier has proven that he does have potential and I don't think Ainge will include him without ensuring he gets proper value back. He took him early for a reason and his late season production at least put him on the radar as a somewhat valuable piece.

Re: Envisioning Okafor, Horford Frontcourt pairing.
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2016, 08:39:46 AM »

Offline CoachBo

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I'd make that move and laugh all the way to the bank.

Okafor's first year is wildly taken out of context on this board. His feet are more than good enough to defend decently in this league, and he's going to grow into a big-time scorer.

He would be a huge addition to a club that cannot shoot a lick.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Envisioning Okafor, Horford Frontcourt pairing.
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2016, 08:41:37 AM »

Offline CoachBo

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A somewhat realistic scenario, and a massive upgrade to our team. We could Keep Amir and Turner in this scenario.

 A big man rotation of Horford, Amir, Okafor Kelly and Mickey would be a huge improvement. I would expect close to 35 ppg and 15rpg per night from Okafor and Horford.

 Something like Jonas the #3 pick and their choice of Rozier, Hunter, Young works salary wise.


Probably best to take the choice out of it. We should be sending Young in any trade where we are looking to match salary as a throw-in (not necessary in this case). Rozier has proven that he does have potential and I don't think Ainge will include him without ensuring he gets proper value back. He took him early for a reason and his late season production at least put him on the radar as a somewhat valuable piece.

I also support strongly any offloading of Ainge's draft mistakes. Young and Hunter would be a good place to start. Young is a lost cause, and let someone else take a mediocre spot up shooter who can't guard a chair.  If it took Rozier instead ... fine, grudgingly. I'd like another look at him to see if he can address the holes in his game.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Envisioning Okafor, Horford Frontcourt pairing.
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2016, 08:55:36 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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People worried about Okafor who'd blow the 3rd pick in the draft on a scrub like Dragan Bender?

I can see the concern about Horford. Okafor would be a terrific addition to the Celtics, and Ainge is correct to pursue him. He will grow a lot under Brad Stevens.

I don't believe that either Okafor nor Bender are worthy of being top 3 picks, but for opposite reasons.

Bender's problem is that he is 'solid' at just about everything, but he's "great" at pretty much nothing.  A jack of all trades, but master of none.  Being mediocre at everything isn't really a recipe for becoming an NBA star.

Okafor's problem is that he is great at one thing (inside scoring) and terrible at pretty much everything else.  He's a poor rebounder, he's a poor shooter, he's a poor defender, he's a poor athlete - if you can name it, and it isn't post scoring, then he probably sucks at it.  Being really great at one thing is, also, not really a recipe for becoming an NBA star.

Merge Okafor's dominant post talent with Bender's all round competence, and suddenly you have yourself a player.  Sadly this isn't one of those computer games where you can take a cat's face and a cow's butt and create a "caow".  This is real life - Bender is who he is, Okafor is who he is, neither is probably ever going to be a big star.

Okafor COULD develop into a valuable player, but he's a very difficult player to build a strong team around simply because he has so many major flaws in his game that you need to cover for. 

For example:

* He's not a great shooter, so you need to play him alongside a big who can stretch the floor
* He's not a good defender in general, so you need to play him alongside a big who can defend
* He's not a good rebounder, so you need to play him alongside a big who can rebound
* He's very slow, so you need to play him alongside a big who is very mobile
* He seems to have significant attitude issues

Try to find yourself a starting big man who is mobile, can stretch the floor, is versatile defensively, can rebound and has positive intangibles.  If you can do that then maybe you can find a way to integrate a guy like Okafor into your lineup (next to Draymond Green or Lemarcus Aldridge might work).  It's hard to find guys like that though, which is why it's hard to fit a team around Okafor.

Think of Okafor as Enes Kanter minus the elite rebounding and you're pretty much on the money. 

The Thunder aren't starting Kanter (despite the fact that they have the seemingly perfect guy to fit next to him in Ibaka) because he kills their defence that badly.  They are paying some $15 million for Kanter to come off the pine.  That's why I don't want Okafor.

Re: Envisioning Okafor, Horford Frontcourt pairing.
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2016, 08:57:04 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I'd make that move and laugh all the way to the bank.

Okafor's first year is wildly taken out of context on this board. His feet are more than good enough to defend decently in this league, and he's going to grow into a big-time scorer.

He would be a huge addition to a club that cannot shoot a lick.

hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha

TP for the laugh :)

Re: Envisioning Okafor, Horford Frontcourt pairing.
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2016, 09:11:22 AM »

Offline Smart457

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I have a hard time deciding on Okafor. My buddy who is usually right thinks Okafor is a lock to be a stud. I'm just not sure he's going to be anything more then the next Al Jefferson. Great offense but terrible defense which negates every great thing he does on offense.

Re: Envisioning Okafor, Horford Frontcourt pairing.
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2016, 09:17:53 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I have a hard time deciding on Okafor. My buddy who is usually right thinks Okafor is a lock to be a stud. I'm just not sure he's going to be anything more then the next Al Jefferson. Great offense but terrible defense which negates every great thing he does on offense.


I agree with you.

I am well aware of the fact that Okafor is only 19, and that he has lots of time to improve (etc).  But I just don't see how he can improve on his weaknesses when he is so fundamentally terrible at so many things.

Even if he develops a solid midrange jumper, he's still going to suck on defence, he is still a mediocre rebounder, and he's still dead slow.

Even if he develops a midrange jumper AND becomes a better rebounder (which is possible), he'll still be a terrible defender who moves like a tanker truck.

I just feel like there are only so many things a guy can work on, and I don't see Okafor as somebody who has godly levels of motor/work ethic.  He looks like he's almost as lazy (and almost as out of shape) as Sullinger and it wouldn't surprise me at all if his development is about as effective as Sully's.

Of course as with anything there is always a chance that I will be wrong - but I just don't see it.   For a guy to have THAT many weaknesses in his game I feel he'd need to have a KG/Draymond/Crowder like work ethic in order to have any hope of overcoming all those holes, and I don't see that kind of drive in Okafor.

Re: Envisioning Okafor, Horford Frontcourt pairing.
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2016, 09:54:53 AM »

Offline CoachBo

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I'd make that move and laugh all the way to the bank.

Okafor's first year is wildly taken out of context on this board. His feet are more than good enough to defend decently in this league, and he's going to grow into a big-time scorer.

He would be a huge addition to a club that cannot shoot a lick.

hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha

TP for the laugh :)

Likewise. You have no idea what you're looking at with Okafor. None.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."