Author Topic: The Three Players the Celts Must Add This Summer  (Read 6565 times)

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Re: The Three Players the Celts Must Add This Summer
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2016, 07:51:37 PM »

Offline loco_91

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We might be better off adding nobody.

Every single mid-tier free agent is going to get overpaid this year. Everyone has capspace, there's a ton of parity in the Eastern conference, and there is a severe lack of top-tier and second-tier talent on the market. Even *relative to the new cap*, players are going to get paid too much. So I hope we do not sign anybody to a long-term deal; retain flexibility for next year, when there's a long list of stars and superstars to be had.

We should start by retaining Amir and Jerebko, who are on bargain contracts. Then we could offer one-year contracts to Sully, Turner, or others. We could also make a trade, maybe for someone like Thaddeus Young, who would replace Sully, or Nikola Mirotic, who would replace Jerebko. But the priority should be retaining flexibility for 2017.

Re: The Three Players the Celts Must Add This Summer
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2016, 07:56:55 PM »

Offline jbp126

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If we're going to overpay for the FA's that aren't star level, which is a definite possibility, I'd go for Biyombo and Fournier. Both are 23, healthy, and address needs. For a third, I'd try to get Dudley on a modest deal.
There is no reason whatsoever to overpay. Overpaying leads to mediocrity. Just look at the contracts that GSW and SAS have.

I just posted elsewhere (Potential FA Targets thread) that I'd prefer to sit out of free agency all together instead of overpaying for the B-listers. The above are the players I'd like if we end up becoming active in free agency, which is definitely possible especially if we make a pre-draft trade for a star that consolidates some assets.

Re: The Three Players the Celts Must Add This Summer
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2016, 08:04:55 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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We might be better off adding nobody.

Every single mid-tier free agent is going to get overpaid this year. Everyone has capspace, there's a ton of parity in the Eastern conference, and there is a severe lack of top-tier and second-tier talent on the market. Even *relative to the new cap*, players are going to get paid too much. So I hope we do not sign anybody to a long-term deal; retain flexibility for next year, when there's a long list of stars and superstars to be had.

We should start by retaining Amir and Jerebko, who are on bargain contracts. Then we could offer one-year contracts to Sully, Turner, or others. We could also make a trade, maybe for someone like Thaddeus Young, who would replace Sully, or Nikola Mirotic, who would replace Jerebko. But the priority should be retaining flexibility for 2017.


At some point, retaining flexibility year after year is just a way of continuing to string along fans with the hope of the potential home run.

I don't think retaining Sully, Turner, or Zeller for just one or two years is likely to be a good option, because as you say the demand for free agents will greatly exceed the supply of high quality free agents.

If you want to just punt on free agency that's fine.  There are some decent trade options.  Everybody I listed with an asterisk would have to be acquired via trade.

If you want to just let our free agents go, forgo signing anybody to replace them, and develop all of the young guys that will probably make up nearly half the roster next year, that's another option, but one that would probably result in a significant step back in the standings.
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Re: The Three Players the Celts Must Add This Summer
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2016, 08:06:45 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Grabbing Jaylen Brown with the 5th or 6th pick and then swapping out Zeller and Sully for Mahinmi and Ryan Anderson might win for the biggest but least sexy improvement any team would make this offseason.

Mike

Ryan Anderson would be awesome. I don't know why he hasn't been more successful paired with Anthony Davis, I thought that duo would be something the Pelicans would want to keep long term, they should have complemented each other better than they did.

The problem is that Anderson can't defend a chair and playing with Davis means that Davis has to play the 5. Davis doesn't want to play the 5 and given all the issues he's had physically I think he's right and his body won't be able to handle the banging inside. It's why the Pelicans traded for Asik and then re-signed Ajinca in free agency. Obviously neither is the answer, which is why they're rumored to be targeting Whiteside via free agency or Poeltl in the draft.



I think it's a shame that in today's NBA where the definition of a center has changed to include smaller players who spend more time out of the paint, a top tier young big man doesnt want to play center because its too much banging on his body.

It's not about what he wants so much as it's about what will allow him to stay on the floor while carrying a large offensive load for his team.
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Re: The Three Players the Celts Must Add This Summer
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2016, 08:13:35 PM »

Offline jbp126

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We might be better off adding nobody.

Every single mid-tier free agent is going to get overpaid this year. Everyone has capspace, there's a ton of parity in the Eastern conference, and there is a severe lack of top-tier and second-tier talent on the market. Even *relative to the new cap*, players are going to get paid too much. So I hope we do not sign anybody to a long-term deal; retain flexibility for next year, when there's a long list of stars and superstars to be had.

We should start by retaining Amir and Jerebko, who are on bargain contracts. Then we could offer one-year contracts to Sully, Turner, or others. We could also make a trade, maybe for someone like Thaddeus Young, who would replace Sully, or Nikola Mirotic, who would replace Jerebko. But the priority should be retaining flexibility for 2017.

It's all about roster spots and ongoing cap flexibility. We have 3 first round picks which become guaranteed contracts unless they play international ball. That may be realistic with one of those first round picks but that's at least two roster spots right there. A trade to consolidate players and picks is inevitable.

All that said, we probably still won't even have the space on the roster to do much in free agency if we keep the reasonable contracts we already have. We have holes like shooting and rebounding, but more role players that we'd have to overpay for probably won't move the needle much, even if they address those needs.

Re: The Three Players the Celts Must Add This Summer
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2016, 08:18:02 PM »

Offline inverselock

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Stevens has said repeatedly that our greatest need is a versatile wing, and I'll go with that: a player who can score on a consistent basis, help with the rebounding, play good D and can also dribble and pass well, ie. a young Luol Deng.

Of the players mentioned, I'm p sure I don't want Lou Williams here (age +poor defence).

Fournier is not exactly athletic and he is more of a 2/3 than the 3/4 that we need: he won't be of any help with rebounding. Still, his offensive game is exciting, and he is among the most interesting of the players mentioned.

PS1 I'm not sure Stevens even wants a traditional center.  Someone like Kevin Love or Blake Griffin would be a nice fit, but I am much less optimistic about someone like Howard.
As for Biyombo, I rooted for us to take him last summer; now that he has drawn so much attention to him it is kind of late: from being undervalued he went straight to being overrated.

PS2 Does the asterisk stand for RFA?

Small ball still needs strong rebounding and versatile defense.   Think, Tristan Thompson, Millsap, Draymond, Ibaka. 
These guys are better at being a traditional C than anyone on the Celtics.

The contenders,  GSW, OKC, SA,  were at the top in blocks/g.   There's still a role for the traditional C.  i.e.  Adams, Bogut.   

Can't be soft in the paint.


Re: The Three Players the Celts Must Add This Summer
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2016, 08:24:51 PM »

Offline Chief

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Stevens has said repeatedly that our greatest need is a versatile wing, and I'll go with that: a player who can score on a consistent basis, help with the rebounding, play good D and can also dribble and pass well, ie. a young Luol Deng.

Of the players mentioned, I'm p sure I don't want Lou Williams here (age +poor defence).

Fournier is not exactly athletic and he is more of a 2/3 than the 3/4 that we need: he won't be of any help with rebounding. Still, his offensive game is exciting, and he is among the most interesting of the players mentioned.

PS1 I'm not sure Stevens even wants a traditional center.  Someone like Kevin Love or Blake Griffin would be a nice fit, but I am much less optimistic about someone like Howard.
As for Biyombo, I rooted for us to take him last summer; now that he has drawn so much attention to him it is kind of late: from being undervalued he went straight to being overrated.

PS2 Does the asterisk stand for RFA?

Batum is versitile.
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Re: The Three Players the Celts Must Add This Summer
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2016, 08:27:28 PM »

Offline mctyson

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Not gonna lie...I think Teletovic would be a great add to this team.  Guy can come off the bench and is instant offense, and he would be cheap I think.

Re: The Three Players the Celts Must Add This Summer
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2016, 08:28:16 PM »

Offline greece66

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Stevens has said repeatedly that our greatest need is a versatile wing, and I'll go with that: a player who can score on a consistent basis, help with the rebounding, play good D and can also dribble and pass well, ie. a young Luol Deng.

Of the players mentioned, I'm p sure I don't want Lou Williams here (age +poor defence).

Fournier is not exactly athletic and he is more of a 2/3 than the 3/4 that we need: he won't be of any help with rebounding. Still, his offensive game is exciting, and he is among the most interesting of the players mentioned.

PS1 I'm not sure Stevens even wants a traditional center.  Someone like Kevin Love or Blake Griffin would be a nice fit, but I am much less optimistic about someone like Howard.
As for Biyombo, I rooted for us to take him last summer; now that he has drawn so much attention to him it is kind of late: from being undervalued he went straight to being overrated.

PS2 Does the asterisk stand for RFA?

Small ball still needs strong rebounding and versatile defense.   Think, Tristan Thompson, Millsap, Draymond, Ibaka. 
These guys are better at being a traditional C than anyone on the Celtics.

The contenders,  GSW, OKC, SA,  were at the top in blocks/g.   There's still a role for the traditional C.  i.e.  Adams, Bogut.   

Can't be soft in the paint.

I think you misunderstood what I said Celticbro.

Two points:

i/the top priority is the versatile wing. Everything else comes second.

ii/C's need a big man, but ideally we should go for the kind of bigs GSW has: Draymond Green (enough said) and Bogut (good mid range shot and pass). Other players who combine rim protection and rebounding with good passing, shooting and high bball IQ: Millsap, Horford and as mentioned earlier, KLove and Griffin.

But please no Howard.  He will slow everyone down + his lack of shooting will damage our spacing. All he is good for offensively is pick and roll and anchoring near the basket.

Re: The Three Players the Celts Must Add This Summer
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2016, 08:35:59 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

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What would it take to get Thad Young and do you guys think it would be worth trading with Brooklyn?

Re: The Three Players the Celts Must Add This Summer
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2016, 08:47:26 PM »

Offline inverselock

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Stevens has said repeatedly that our greatest need is a versatile wing, and I'll go with that: a player who can score on a consistent basis, help with the rebounding, play good D and can also dribble and pass well, ie. a young Luol Deng.

Of the players mentioned, I'm p sure I don't want Lou Williams here (age +poor defence).

Fournier is not exactly athletic and he is more of a 2/3 than the 3/4 that we need: he won't be of any help with rebounding. Still, his offensive game is exciting, and he is among the most interesting of the players mentioned.

PS1 I'm not sure Stevens even wants a traditional center.  Someone like Kevin Love or Blake Griffin would be a nice fit, but I am much less optimistic about someone like Howard.
As for Biyombo, I rooted for us to take him last summer; now that he has drawn so much attention to him it is kind of late: from being undervalued he went straight to being overrated.

PS2 Does the asterisk stand for RFA?

Small ball still needs strong rebounding and versatile defense.   Think, Tristan Thompson, Millsap, Draymond, Ibaka. 
These guys are better at being a traditional C than anyone on the Celtics.

The contenders,  GSW, OKC, SA,  were at the top in blocks/g.   There's still a role for the traditional C.  i.e.  Adams, Bogut.   

Can't be soft in the paint.

I think you misunderstood what I said Celticbro.

Two points:

i/the top priority is the versatile wing. Everything else comes second.

ii/C's need a big man, but ideally we should go for the kind of bigs GSW has: Draymond Green (enough said) and Bogut (good mid range shot and pass). Other players who combine rim protection and rebounding with good passing, shooting and high bball IQ: Millsap, Horford and as mentioned earlier, KLove and Griffin.

But please no Howard.  He will slow everyone down + his lack of shooting will damage our spacing. All he is good for offensively is pick and roll and anchoring near the basket.

Oops, gotcha now.

Love and Griffin still need a strong Def & Reb next to them.   Not quite good enough to be a small ball C.   At the very minimum someone like Amir that can play 35min/g at 100% all season is what they need.

Re: The Three Players the Celts Must Add This Summer
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2016, 09:10:29 PM »

Offline greece66

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Stevens has said repeatedly that our greatest need is a versatile wing, and I'll go with that: a player who can score on a consistent basis, help with the rebounding, play good D and can also dribble and pass well, ie. a young Luol Deng.

Of the players mentioned, I'm p sure I don't want Lou Williams here (age +poor defence).

Fournier is not exactly athletic and he is more of a 2/3 than the 3/4 that we need: he won't be of any help with rebounding. Still, his offensive game is exciting, and he is among the most interesting of the players mentioned.

PS1 I'm not sure Stevens even wants a traditional center.  Someone like Kevin Love or Blake Griffin would be a nice fit, but I am much less optimistic about someone like Howard.
As for Biyombo, I rooted for us to take him last summer; now that he has drawn so much attention to him it is kind of late: from being undervalued he went straight to being overrated.

PS2 Does the asterisk stand for RFA?

Small ball still needs strong rebounding and versatile defense.   Think, Tristan Thompson, Millsap, Draymond, Ibaka. 
These guys are better at being a traditional C than anyone on the Celtics.

The contenders,  GSW, OKC, SA,  were at the top in blocks/g.   There's still a role for the traditional C.  i.e.  Adams, Bogut.   

Can't be soft in the paint.

I think you misunderstood what I said Celticbro.

Two points:

i/the top priority is the versatile wing. Everything else comes second.

ii/C's need a big man, but ideally we should go for the kind of bigs GSW has: Draymond Green (enough said) and Bogut (good mid range shot and pass). Other players who combine rim protection and rebounding with good passing, shooting and high bball IQ: Millsap, Horford and as mentioned earlier, KLove and Griffin.

But please no Howard.  He will slow everyone down + his lack of shooting will damage our spacing. All he is good for offensively is pick and roll and anchoring near the basket.

Oops, gotcha now.

Love and Griffin still need a strong Def & Reb next to them.   Not quite good enough to be a small ball C.   At the very minimum someone like Amir that can play 35min/g at 100% all season is what they need.

Neither Griffin nor KLove are good shot blockers. But they both are good rebounders: BG has 9.8 per 36 min (playing next to the best rebounder in the league) and KLove has 12.7.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=griffbl01&p2=loveke01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

I understand my opinion might not be very popular, but I think a smallball lineup with IT, AB, some new player at the 3, Crowder and Griffin/KLove could be effective.  Especially if the newcomer at the 3 was athletic enough to defend multiple positions and grab some rebounds too.

Re: The Three Players the Celts Must Add This Summer
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2016, 09:15:58 PM »

Offline mrceltics2013

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Well, this past season didn't end the way we wanted it to, but it was a pretty decent season overall. 

The 2015-2016 Celts were a hard-working, mostly lovable bunch with some really rad strengths and some really wince-worthy weaknesses.  Those weaknesses were on display in the first round loss to the Hawks, but were noticeable all season long.


Those weaknesses included, in particular:


- Poor shooting, especially from three point territory
- Not very many free throw attempts (relative to overall field goal attempts)


This summer, the Celts have three notable free agents, each of whom is in some way representative of these weaknesses:

- Jared Sullinger, a big man with an absolutely pathetic Effective Field Goal Percentage (well below 50%).

- Evan Turner, a ball-dominant player with a relatively low Effective Field Goal Percentage and an abysmal shooting percentage from beyond the arc.

- Tyler Zeller, a big man with a poor overall rebounding percentage, especially on the defensive glass, considering he's a pure center.


Like every team, the Celts will look to improve this summer.  Obviously the overarching goal from that vantage point will be to upgrade the talent level on the roster, specifically by targeting high usage, high minutes stars who can carry a load on both ends to make life easier for the Celts' many young role players.

Acquiring stars is difficult, though.  At the very least, the Celts need to make it a goal to move on from the three free agents mentioned above and replace them with the following:

- A quality defensive rebounder who can also finish at a decent rate.

- A honest-to-goodness outside shooter, i.e. takes and makes lots of shots from deep.

- A player who can take and make lots of shots (from anywhere) with decent efficiency, while also getting to the line.



I'd like to note that what the Celts could really, really use is a wing or frontcourt player who is a quality rebounder, an above average shooter from everywhere, including three point territory, and who gets to the line frequently.

Unfortunately, players fitting that description are almost invariably stars.  So yeah, of course that's what they need.


There is one player who is a free agent this summer and who, to at least some extent, addresses each area.

Luol Deng.

He shoots 34% from three, his free throw rate is 25.7%, his defensive rebound rate is OK for a wing (15.4%), and his EFG% is 51.3.  He only scores 13.7 points per 36 minutes these days, though.  Luol is your classic Jack-of-All-Trades. 

He'd help, but the Celts really need to add some guys with stand-out strengths.


In that vein, here are some names that could possibly be available via free agency -- or trade, noted by an asterisk -- that the Celts perhaps ought to consider.

Rebounder / Finishers

(>20 DR% and >50 EFG%)

- Dwight Howard
- Hassan Whiteside
- Ian Mahinmi
- Tyson Chandler*
- Marcin Gortat*
- Kenneth Faried*
- Jon Leuer*
- Bismack Biyombo
- Greg Monroe
- Thaddeus Young

Shooters

(>36 3P% and > 1.5 3P per 36 min)

- Mirza Teletovic
- Eric Gordon
- Terrence Ross
- Hollis Thompson*
- Ryan Anderson
- Marvin Williams
- Evan Fournier
- Ersan Ilyasova
- Jared Dudley


Shot Taker / Maker

(>15 Points per 36 min; >1 3P per 36 min; >33 3P%; >20% FTR)

- Lou Williams*
- Gerald Henderson
- Omri Casspi*
- Evan Fournier
- Rudy Gay*
- Ryan Anderson
- Eric Gordon
- Mirza Teletovic



What do you think?  Do you have any players in mind who fit the descriptions above that aren't listed?


Again, it's obvious that what the Celts need to add in order to reach contention is a "star," probably multiple "stars." 

This is an attempt to identify what the Celts are lacking overall beyond "star power," and how those shortcomings might be addressed this summer regardless of which stars do or do not become available.


To be 1000% honest. There is 0 reason to not sign Ryan Andersan. I saw him play this season a few times and omg did he put on a display scoring!

Signing whiteside and Ryan anderson would really solve the bulk of our issues. Also Whiteside is a pretty decent free throw shooter as well.

Re: The Three Players the Celts Must Add This Summer
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2016, 09:40:14 PM »

Offline inverselock

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.





Neither Griffin nor KLove are good shot blockers. But they both are good rebounders: BG has 9.8 per 36 min (playing next to the best rebounder in the league) and KLove has 12.7.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=griffbl01&p2=loveke01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

I understand my opinion might not be very popular, but I think a smallball lineup with IT, AB, some new player at the 3, Crowder and Griffin/KLove could be effective.  Especially if the newcomer at the 3 was athletic enough to defend multiple positions and grab some rebounds too.

Cleveland's best line up is with T. Thompson at C and Love at Pf.   Thompson was great against Atlanta.  Love/Griffin with Crowder is too small for the majority of the Nba matchups.    Don't need all 5 guys to stretch the floor.   The C should still be the dirty hard work guy.

Re: The Three Players the Celts Must Add This Summer
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2016, 09:43:09 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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I like a lot of names you listed. The key will be finding the good value contracts so we can keep our flexibility to offer a max free agent if one can becomes interested.

I'd be fine moving on from Zeller, Holland, Turner, sully and Young (trade). Then drafting 3 players and signing 2 guys from your list to deals like Amir got offered (big money first year with second year non guaranteed).

Mahinmi and Gordon make sense as one year options for above market annual dollars. Then we can jump back into a better free agent class in 2017.
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