Author Topic: Mike Conley hints he could leave , Marc Gasol available?  (Read 3390 times)

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Re: Mike Conley hints he could leave , Marc Gasol available?
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2016, 05:58:44 PM »

Offline jbp126

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I would love Mark Gasol on this team. I also think he is more of a lure for Durant than Cousins or Butler or Horford. I'm guessing any deal would need to involve the Nets pick, their own pick returned and a player like Bradley or Smart. Whether we'd give up all that is another question.

Perhaps in the summer:

Gasol for Nets pick, sign and trade Sullinger to $60m/4yr, MEM 2019 pick, RJ Hunter, a splattering of our plethora of 2nds

Durant may prefer Gasol over Butler but not Horford and definitely not Cousins. Furthermore, it's a terrible move to trade a top 3 pick for a 31-year-old center who is recovering from a broken foot.

Re: Mike Conley hints he could leave , Marc Gasol available?
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2016, 06:47:18 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Just a hypothetical here.  If Mike Conley had interest in signing with Boston as a free agent, what kind of talent do you think Boston could get by trading Isaiah Thomas?

depends on what you package him with .

Hypothetically, could you trade Thomas to a team desperate for a PG (like Philly for Okafor) and sign Conley to fill the PG void?  Just one random example off the top of my head.

As far as what we could package him with... let's stick with the lesser picks/prospects (#16, #23, Rozier, Hunter, Mickey). 

Could you move Thomas in a package for Melo?  Knicks need a quality PG still, right?

We should also consider the salary issue, though.  Melo makes significantly more than Thomas.  A player like Okafor or Noel works, because they are on rookie contracts and Thomas only makes 6.5 mil per year.
Thomas will not yield either Melo or Okafor, even if you pair him with ALL of those lesser assets.  I think his value isn't much more than it was when Boston acquired him.  I mean probably mid 1st instead of late 1st, but don't think you could get a top ten pick for him without either it being a salary dump or something else going to the team acquiring him.  These playoffs have once again confirmed that Thomas' size will always hold him back.

Despite Isaiah's emergence as an all-star this year, I agree that his trade value hasn't improved much since a year and a half ago. He's more valuable to us than any other team by far. Love IT but Bradley, Smart, and Crowder will draw more interest in trades.

IT is easily worth a lottery pick (and not a low one) - to say anything else is ludicrous at this point. He was an all-star, a legitimate one, and he has alleviated any previous doubts that he could be a big time player on a playoff team. He is also making less than $7M per year.

LarBrd wasn't trying to debate whether or not he was our 4th best player asset, he was wondering how big of a star could we bring in if we package him with additional picks - really as simple as that.

It is amazing how little respect IT gets, even by our own fans. The dude drops 42 in a playoff win and people are still like, "whatev - 6th man." By now, his height should be a non-factor. While I agree that guys like Irving and Lillard are worth more on the open market, he has proven to be about on par with those guys, statistically. And all three are iffy defensively.


Re: Mike Conley hints he could leave , Marc Gasol available?
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2016, 07:10:04 PM »

Offline jbp126

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Just a hypothetical here.  If Mike Conley had interest in signing with Boston as a free agent, what kind of talent do you think Boston could get by trading Isaiah Thomas?

depends on what you package him with .

Hypothetically, could you trade Thomas to a team desperate for a PG (like Philly for Okafor) and sign Conley to fill the PG void?  Just one random example off the top of my head.

As far as what we could package him with... let's stick with the lesser picks/prospects (#16, #23, Rozier, Hunter, Mickey). 

Could you move Thomas in a package for Melo?  Knicks need a quality PG still, right?

We should also consider the salary issue, though.  Melo makes significantly more than Thomas.  A player like Okafor or Noel works, because they are on rookie contracts and Thomas only makes 6.5 mil per year.
Thomas will not yield either Melo or Okafor, even if you pair him with ALL of those lesser assets.  I think his value isn't much more than it was when Boston acquired him.  I mean probably mid 1st instead of late 1st, but don't think you could get a top ten pick for him without either it being a salary dump or something else going to the team acquiring him.  These playoffs have once again confirmed that Thomas' size will always hold him back.

Despite Isaiah's emergence as an all-star this year, I agree that his trade value hasn't improved much since a year and a half ago. He's more valuable to us than any other team by far. Love IT but Bradley, Smart, and Crowder will draw more interest in trades.

IT is easily worth a lottery pick (and not a low one) - to say anything else is ludicrous at this point. He was an all-star, a legitimate one, and he has alleviated any previous doubts that he could be a big time player on a playoff team. He is also making less than $7M per year.

LarBrd wasn't trying to debate whether or not he was our 4th best player asset, he was wondering how big of a star could we bring in if we package him with additional picks - really as simple as that.

It is amazing how little respect IT gets, even by our own fans. The dude drops 42 in a playoff win and people are still like, "whatev - 6th man." By now, his height should be a non-factor. While I agree that guys like Irving and Lillard are worth more on the open market, he has proven to be about on par with those guys, statistically. And all three are iffy defensively.

Don't get me wrong, I love Isaiah's game and I'm all for keeping him. He's about as good of a scoring point guard as you can get evidenced by an all-star nod this season so, in most cases, trading him would lead to a downgrade at that position. However, another one of the reasons I want to keep him is because he's worth more to us due to a lot of teams' depth at point.

Re: Mike Conley hints he could leave , Marc Gasol available?
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2016, 07:20:53 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Don't get me wrong, I love Isaiah's game and I'm all for keeping him. He's about as good of a scoring point guard as you can get evidenced by an all-star nod this season so, in most cases, trading him would lead to a downgrade at that position. However, another one of the reasons I want to keep him is because he's worth more to us due to a lot of teams' depth at point.

I agree with this. Also, you absolutely hold on to a player on an extremely team-friendly deal if he is putting up similar stats (and impact) to other superstars at his position.

While it is acknowledged by the national media that Danny stole IT away from PHX at a moment of confusion during the last minutes of the trade deadline, he is unlikely to bring back similar value. However, if a team does offer up actual or above value for him (Butler, Griffin, Cousins), then Danny will certainly listen...but I agree that is unlikely.

Re: Mike Conley hints he could leave , Marc Gasol available?
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2016, 07:23:49 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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Just a hypothetical here.  If Mike Conley had interest in signing with Boston as a free agent, what kind of talent do you think Boston could get by trading Isaiah Thomas?

depends on what you package him with .

Hypothetically, could you trade Thomas to a team desperate for a PG (like Philly for Okafor) and sign Conley to fill the PG void?  Just one random example off the top of my head.

As far as what we could package him with... let's stick with the lesser picks/prospects (#16, #23, Rozier, Hunter, Mickey). 

Could you move Thomas in a package for Melo?  Knicks need a quality PG still, right?

We should also consider the salary issue, though.  Melo makes significantly more than Thomas.  A player like Okafor or Noel works, because they are on rookie contracts and Thomas only makes 6.5 mil per year.
Thomas will not yield either Melo or Okafor, even if you pair him with ALL of those lesser assets.  I think his value isn't much more than it was when Boston acquired him.  I mean probably mid 1st instead of late 1st, but don't think you could get a top ten pick for him without either it being a salary dump or something else going to the team acquiring him.  These playoffs have once again confirmed that Thomas' size will always hold him back.

Come again?
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: Mike Conley hints he could leave , Marc Gasol available?
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2016, 08:18:49 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Rather have Gasol than Horford

Re: Mike Conley hints he could leave , Marc Gasol available?
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2016, 09:06:23 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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I don't get why people think IT isn't worth at least a decent lottery pick...

Other than Conley leaving, I could certainly see Marc Gasol being the odd man out due to the length of his contract, and whether or not Memphis still has enough in the juice to run it back with Conley at the point.

I actually really like Conley, and would think he would be an excellent point guard to fit into Steven's system. But give me Marc Gasol any time of the day, except for Cousins.

I'm only certained about how much, and what the cost is to acquire him, but I'm all for Gasol. He would be a dominant two way player, and would as one user posted above me; reel in Durant, and look more attractive.
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Re: Mike Conley hints he could leave , Marc Gasol available?
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2016, 02:53:30 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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I would love Mark Gasol on this team. I also think he is more of a lure for Durant than Cousins or Butler or Horford. I'm guessing any deal would need to involve the Nets pick, their own pick returned and a player like Bradley or Smart. Whether we'd give up all that is another question.

Perhaps in the summer:

Gasol for Nets pick, sign and trade Sullinger to $60m/4yr, MEM 2019 pick, RJ Hunter, a splattering of our plethora of 2nds

Durant may prefer Gasol over Butler but not Horford and definitely not Cousins. Furthermore, it's a terrible move to trade a top 3 pick for a 31-year-old center who is recovering from a broken foot.
Why does everyone think Horford is a lure?? If anything he's got as much injury history as Gasol, he doesn't want to play center yet he's too slow for PF, he was awful in 5 out of 6 games against us and he's seeking a max. Gasol would come $6m cheaper, has a game that isn't predicated on athleticism which reduces the impact of the foot injury, is a fantastic passer out of the post.
Durant has longed to play with a big man of Gasol's calibre. Horford got mentioned in one rumour from Lowe and now he's suddenly the key to Durant, it's ridiculous.

I would prefer Cousins on our team but I'm speculating that Durant might be wary of rolling the dice with him. If Cousins had a safe year with us I think he'd consider it in 2017. I'm just being cautious on that I suppose.

I don't think it's a terrible move. Would you have traded for Durant last year? As long as the Intel is fine I see no problem. It might not be the first choice trade but if it lands 3 and DA sees noone for the long term then I think he'd do it

Re: Mike Conley hints he could leave , Marc Gasol available?
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2016, 05:25:58 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Hell no on Gasol.

I dont get why, but people on here have an obsession with guys in the "ageing and oft-injured fringe stars who are now declining towards borderline role player status" category.

I somewhat get it for guys like Dwight and Melo since those guys at least were once legit superstars, but Mark Gasol??

Marc Gasol is just another Al Horford.  He's a good all round player who you could argues has never even been the best player on his own team, who is now past his prime and coming off a season ending injury (after going through injuries his whole career).

I really wouldn't like the idea of signing him unless it was an absolute last resort and were unable to get somebody younger and more talented, and i wouldn't trade any assets of significant future or current value for him.

If we could snag him on a firesale bargain ( unlikely) then fine, but otherwise not interested.

This is a young team and we arent going to lure guys like Durant into signing long term contracts here by signining former stars who have a couple of years left in the tank.

I also don't get This forum wide obsession with the idea that simply being skilled and unathletic somehow means your game will age better.

Guys like Ewing amd Shaq were shadows of their former selves by the time they reached 33-34 years of age.  Neither of those guys relied a whole lot on athleticism.

KG was crazy athletic, and his games was largely strengthened by that, yet he still remained effective to the age of 35-36.

Age and injuries slow guys down, plain and simple.  The guys who stick around longest are the guys who are lucky enough to have bodies that don't break down as soon.  No matter what style of game a guy has, relying on ageing 7 footers with major injuries is very risky business.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 05:42:03 AM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Mike Conley hints he could leave , Marc Gasol available?
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2016, 06:59:04 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Crimson, Pau Gasol this year gone is a pretty solid example for what Marc could be in 5 years. By that time Marc's contract will likely be a similar percentage of the cap as well.

The difference for me between Gasol and guys like Melo or Howard is that Gasol is one of the best passing big men in the league and is a team first player. Many of these fading stars still put their agenda ahead of the teams. I've never seen that with Gasol.

What Gasol does do is block shots, position himself well, stretch big men out to ~18ft and pass out of the high post extremely well. He lacks the quick feet of Amir but in every other way I see him as a great fit in Brad's system. Also because he is already locked into to his contract for 4 more years he will be a very effective use of cap space.

You could compare him to Al but I think he's a more intelligent player, better passer and better defender. I think we're agreed that Horford will get the max so Gasol is also $6m per year cheaper.

Re: Mike Conley hints he could leave , Marc Gasol available?
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2016, 08:20:22 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Just a hypothetical here.  If Mike Conley had interest in signing with Boston as a free agent, what kind of talent do you think Boston could get by trading Isaiah Thomas?

depends on what you package him with .

Hypothetically, could you trade Thomas to a team desperate for a PG (like Philly for Okafor) and sign Conley to fill the PG void?  Just one random example off the top of my head.

As far as what we could package him with... let's stick with the lesser picks/prospects (#16, #23, Rozier, Hunter, Mickey). 

Could you move Thomas in a package for Melo?  Knicks need a quality PG still, right?

We should also consider the salary issue, though.  Melo makes significantly more than Thomas.  A player like Okafor or Noel works, because they are on rookie contracts and Thomas only makes 6.5 mil per year.
Thomas will not yield either Melo or Okafor, even if you pair him with ALL of those lesser assets.  I think his value isn't much more than it was when Boston acquired him.  I mean probably mid 1st instead of late 1st, but don't think you could get a top ten pick for him without either it being a salary dump or something else going to the team acquiring him.  These playoffs have once again confirmed that Thomas' size will always hold him back.

Despite Isaiah's emergence as an all-star this year, I agree that his trade value hasn't improved much since a year and a half ago. He's more valuable to us than any other team by far. Love IT but Bradley, Smart, and Crowder will draw more interest in trades.

IT is easily worth a lottery pick (and not a low one) - to say anything else is ludicrous at this point. He was an all-star, a legitimate one, and he has alleviated any previous doubts that he could be a big time player on a playoff team. He is also making less than $7M per year.

LarBrd wasn't trying to debate whether or not he was our 4th best player asset, he was wondering how big of a star could we bring in if we package him with additional picks - really as simple as that.

It is amazing how little respect IT gets, even by our own fans. The dude drops 42 in a playoff win and people are still like, "whatev - 6th man." By now, his height should be a non-factor. While I agree that guys like Irving and Lillard are worth more on the open market, he has proven to be about on par with those guys, statistically. And all three are iffy defensively.
I seriously doubt that.  IT is a very good player, but he also has limitations because of his size.  Sure he had 42 one game but in the entire series (including that game) he shot just 28.3% from three at almost 8 shots a game.  He had a 7 point game in which he shot 3 of 12.  IT's size will always hold him back, it kills him defensively and makes him easy enough to shut down offensively.  He plays his part extremely well for Boston and is far more valuable to Boston than he would be to another team.  His contract is great as well, but IT is not going to get Boston a high lottery pick at all.  He just doesn't have that value. 

Remember he averaged over 20 points and 6 assists his last year in Sacramento (on better overall shooting than he had this year in Boston) and the best contract he got was the one from Phoenix that he is currently on.  IT just doesn't have much value around the league.  It is likely better than the late 1st that Boston acquired him using, but not a whole lot, which is why IT will not be traded.  Far too valuable a player as compared to his trade value. 
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