Author Topic: Tim Duncan is done  (Read 6376 times)

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Re: Tim Duncan is done
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2016, 08:14:32 PM »

Offline loco_91

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I hope he waits another year just so his hall of fame induction isn't a side note to Kobe's.  He doesn't deserve that.
Why would his be a side note?  Duncan is the better player with a more accomplished career.

I agree 1000%, though the media might not see it that way. Kobe headlines = more clicks than Duncan headlines. Not that Duncan will mind!

Re: Tim Duncan is done
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2016, 08:58:14 PM »

Offline Eja117

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eventually HGH stops working

That must be what Dirk is using, too. It can't just be great genetics and fundamental basketball skills.
Interesting.

Well let's look at the evidence for a minute.

Duncan....When he was 35 he averaged 13.5 ppg in 76 games in 28 minutes a night. The next year he performed a little better but played in 18 less games. At the age of 36 his career had been trending down hill for two years.  He was performing worse in less games. Then at the age of 37....wow. Bounce back year. He played an extra 2 minutes a game over the year before and played 11 games more and played more effectively. Then the year after that he played 5 more games, and the year after that he was back up to 77 games.  Is that typical?

So let's look at Dirk now.

He's 37. At the age of 33 he had a tough year. He played 62 games. The next year he played even less. He played 53 and 2 less minutes per game. His play was less good too. He went from 21.6 ppg to 17.3. Then...wow. 80 games at 21.7 ppg. And now at 37 he's still at 75 games for 18ppg

Bounce back years at the ages of 35 for Dirk and 37 for Duncan.


Now let's look at some other good players with good genetics and fundamentals.  Take a look at Paul Pierce. Then Kevin Garnett. Then Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Tell me if you find the bounce back years in their late or mid 30s. I'm not seeing it.

So Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett (Pierce in particular is known for keeping himself in impeccable shape) are absolute shells of their former selves. Even Tony Parker is a shell of himself now and he's 33.

So either Tim Duncan and Dirk are just really blessed genetically ....or something else. It could be that they are just blessed genetically. Or bounce back years at 35 and 37 is something else. I don't believe genetics can give you bounce back years at that age in a physical game.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 09:19:10 PM by eja117 »

Re: Tim Duncan is done
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2016, 10:00:54 PM »

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I hope he waits another year just so his hall of fame induction isn't a side note to Kobe's.  He doesn't deserve that.
Why would his be a side note?  Duncan is the better player with a more accomplished career.

I agree 1000%, though the media might not see it that way. Kobe headlines = more clicks than Duncan headlines. Not that Duncan will mind!

That's what I'm saying.  By no means do I think it should be that way but I think kobe's game appeals more to the culture of fans that ESPN and the NBA have cultivated over the past 25 years and his induction will be pushed to the forefront.  I hope I'm wrong (if in fact Duncan does retire this year).

Re: Tim Duncan is done
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2016, 11:44:13 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Duncan's the Pete Sampras of basketball.  And if you had to go look up who Pete Sampras was, well, that's just a preview of the future in this sport.  It is what it is, quiet greatness based on fundamentals and team play just isn't remembered the same way by the bulk of fans.

Re: Tim Duncan is done
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2016, 12:17:38 AM »

Offline max215

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He's still an incredibly skilled defensive player. I'd rather have Timmy for 15 minutes than Whiteside for 30.
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Re: Tim Duncan is done
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2016, 12:20:36 AM »

Offline max215

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Duncan's the Pete Sampras of basketball.  And if you had to go look up who Pete Sampras was, well, that's just a preview of the future in this sport.  It is what it is, quiet greatness based on fundamentals and team play just isn't remembered the same way by the bulk of fans.

I mean the dude's nickname is the Big Fundamental. He represents winning, class, skill, and intelligence like no other. I, for one, will be much more upset to see Duncan go than Kobe.
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Re: Tim Duncan is done
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2016, 10:41:55 AM »

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Duncan's the Pete Sampras of basketball.  And if you had to go look up who Pete Sampras was, well, that's just a preview of the future in this sport.  It is what it is, quiet greatness based on fundamentals and team play just isn't remembered the same way by the bulk of fans.

Pretty solid comparison.  We're less than two decades removed from Sampras and it seems like he's already an after thought in many minds.  Certainly with casual sports fans. 

Duncan is certainly the better overall player but Kobe resonates more.  Combination of the glamour of the LA Lakers, the large media market, the faux heir apparent to Jordan.....  Several factors. 


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Re: Tim Duncan is done
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2016, 10:46:02 AM »

Offline dannyboy35

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Yeah he's amazing. No disrespect to Popvich because he's fantastic too but Pop would have probably zero titles without Duncan. Great PLAYERS build winning culture. A great coach can only bring so much.

Re: Tim Duncan is done
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2016, 10:51:07 AM »

Offline dannyboy35

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As far as hgh use. I hate the idea but I've come to believe in MY mind, wherever it's not being tested, most are doing it. It's a real bummer and I hope they get around to testing for it. I realize it's these guys bodies and we don't even know the long term ramifications of it but I just don't want to see kids having to use it to keep up. I want a drug free( except smoke pot all you want I don't care lol) level playing field.

Re: Tim Duncan is done
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2016, 11:06:08 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Duncan's the Pete Sampras of basketball.  And if you had to go look up who Pete Sampras was, well, that's just a preview of the future in this sport.  It is what it is, quiet greatness based on fundamentals and team play just isn't remembered the same way by the bulk of fans.

Pretty solid comparison.  We're less than two decades removed from Sampras and it seems like he's already an after thought in many minds.  Certainly with casual sports fans. 

Duncan is certainly the better overall player but Kobe resonates more.  Combination of the glamour of the LA Lakers, the large media market, the faux heir apparent to Jordan.....  Several factors.

Yup, get ready around 2030 or so to see Kobe still in the limelight while Duncan gets a "who?" from many younger fans, leading to a lot of grumbling from older and/or savvier circles. 

Honestly it also doesn't help that he's not nearly as involved in the shoe/apparel game; even Jordan would be fading from memory a bit more than he is without his extensive branding.

Re: Tim Duncan is done
« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2016, 11:32:29 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Duncan's the Pete Sampras of basketball.  And if you had to go look up who Pete Sampras was, well, that's just a preview of the future in this sport.  It is what it is, quiet greatness based on fundamentals and team play just isn't remembered the same way by the bulk of fans.

Pretty solid comparison.  We're less than two decades removed from Sampras and it seems like he's already an after thought in many minds.  Certainly with casual sports fans. 

Duncan is certainly the better overall player but Kobe resonates more.  Combination of the glamour of the LA Lakers, the large media market, the faux heir apparent to Jordan.....  Several factors.
Sampras is a tennis player.  Not many people watch tennis.  Couple that with Federer following right after him (you know the guy that broke Sampras' record and actually managed to win on all three surfaces).  Not that hard to see why Sampras isn't all that well known.  I don't think that happens with Duncan.  He plays in a much more visible sport and there is no one in the league right now that will eclipse his standing on the PF "good" list. 
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Re: Tim Duncan is done
« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2016, 11:44:22 AM »

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eventually HGH stops working

That must be what Dirk is using, too. It can't just be great genetics and fundamental basketball skills.
Interesting.

Well let's look at the evidence for a minute.

Duncan....When he was 35 he averaged 13.5 ppg in 76 games in 28 minutes a night. The next year he performed a little better but played in 18 less games. At the age of 36 his career had been trending down hill for two years.  He was performing worse in less games. Then at the age of 37....wow. Bounce back year. He played an extra 2 minutes a game over the year before and played 11 games more and played more effectively. Then the year after that he played 5 more games, and the year after that he was back up to 77 games.  Is that typical?

So let's look at Dirk now.

He's 37. At the age of 33 he had a tough year. He played 62 games. The next year he played even less. He played 53 and 2 less minutes per game. His play was less good too. He went from 21.6 ppg to 17.3. Then...wow. 80 games at 21.7 ppg. And now at 37 he's still at 75 games for 18ppg

Bounce back years at the ages of 35 for Dirk and 37 for Duncan.


Now let's look at some other good players with good genetics and fundamentals.  Take a look at Paul Pierce. Then Kevin Garnett. Then Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Tell me if you find the bounce back years in their late or mid 30s. I'm not seeing it.

So Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett (Pierce in particular is known for keeping himself in impeccable shape) are absolute shells of their former selves. Even Tony Parker is a shell of himself now and he's 33.

So either Tim Duncan and Dirk are just really blessed genetically ....or something else. It could be that they are just blessed genetically. Or bounce back years at 35 and 37 is something else. I don't believe genetics can give you bounce back years at that age in a physical game.

Maybe it's living in Texas

Re: Tim Duncan is done
« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2016, 11:47:30 AM »

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Duncan's the Pete Sampras of basketball.  And if you had to go look up who Pete Sampras was, well, that's just a preview of the future in this sport.  It is what it is, quiet greatness based on fundamentals and team play just isn't remembered the same way by the bulk of fans.

Pretty solid comparison.  We're less than two decades removed from Sampras and it seems like he's already an after thought in many minds.  Certainly with casual sports fans. 

Duncan is certainly the better overall player but Kobe resonates more.  Combination of the glamour of the LA Lakers, the large media market, the faux heir apparent to Jordan.....  Several factors.
Sampras is a tennis player.  Not many people watch tennis.  Couple that with Federer following right after him (you know the guy that broke Sampras' record and actually managed to win on all three surfaces).  Not that hard to see why Sampras isn't all that well known.  I don't think that happens with Duncan.  He plays in a much more visible sport and there is no one in the league right now that will eclipse his standing on the PF "good" list.

I think you're missing the point of this.  Plain & simple.


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Re: Tim Duncan is done
« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2016, 12:54:00 PM »

Offline moiso

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Duncan's the Pete Sampras of basketball.  And if you had to go look up who Pete Sampras was, well, that's just a preview of the future in this sport.  It is what it is, quiet greatness based on fundamentals and team play just isn't remembered the same way by the bulk of fans.

Pretty solid comparison.  We're less than two decades removed from Sampras and it seems like he's already an after thought in many minds.  Certainly with casual sports fans. 

Duncan is certainly the better overall player but Kobe resonates more.  Combination of the glamour of the LA Lakers, the large media market, the faux heir apparent to Jordan.....  Several factors.
Sampras is a tennis player.  Not many people watch tennis.  Couple that with Federer following right after him (you know the guy that broke Sampras' record and actually managed to win on all three surfaces).  Not that hard to see why Sampras isn't all that well known.  I don't think that happens with Duncan.  He plays in a much more visible sport and there is no one in the league right now that will eclipse his standing on the PF "good" list.

I think you're missing the point of this.  Plain & simple.
He is missing the point.  Kobe is Agassi and McEnroe.  Duncan is Sampras and Ivan Lendl.  We remember the flamboyant ones the most.

Re: Tim Duncan is done
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2016, 01:06:21 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Duncan's the Pete Sampras of basketball.  And if you had to go look up who Pete Sampras was, well, that's just a preview of the future in this sport.  It is what it is, quiet greatness based on fundamentals and team play just isn't remembered the same way by the bulk of fans.

Pretty solid comparison.  We're less than two decades removed from Sampras and it seems like he's already an after thought in many minds.  Certainly with casual sports fans. 

Duncan is certainly the better overall player but Kobe resonates more.  Combination of the glamour of the LA Lakers, the large media market, the faux heir apparent to Jordan.....  Several factors.
Sampras is a tennis player.  Not many people watch tennis.  Couple that with Federer following right after him (you know the guy that broke Sampras' record and actually managed to win on all three surfaces).  Not that hard to see why Sampras isn't all that well known.  I don't think that happens with Duncan.  He plays in a much more visible sport and there is no one in the league right now that will eclipse his standing on the PF "good" list.

I think you're missing the point of this.  Plain & simple.
He is missing the point.  Kobe is Agassi and McEnroe.  Duncan is Sampras and Ivan Lendl.  We remember the flamboyant ones the most.
Agassi isn't any more remembered than Sampras is right now, though.  Agassi certainly had the flash and the media attention at the time, but he hasn't stood the test of time.  McEnroe is still very much involved in tennis so yeah he is more visible.
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