Author Topic: Would you trade IT + 3-5 pick for Jimmy Butler ?  (Read 13892 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Would you trade IT + 3-5 pick for Jimmy Butler ?
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2016, 07:27:30 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 36776
  • Tommy Points: 2961
Does a bear poo in the woods

Re: Would you trade IT + 3-5 pick for Jimmy Butler ?
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2016, 07:51:33 PM »

Offline Lucky17

  • DKC Commish
  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16021
  • Tommy Points: 2352
Trade

To Bulls: IT, 2016 nets pick, Celtics pick, 35th pick, Amir
To Celtics: Butler, Barstow


Celtics lineup after trade (not considering draft or FA results)

C- ?
PF-  KO
SF- Crowder
SG- Butler (also primary ball handler)
PG- AB  (guards pg anyways)

C-  Jerebko
PF- Mickey/Barstow
SF- ?
SG-  Smart
PG-  Rozier
 

yay or nay?

Nay and this makes no sense.  Jimmy Butler did not make the playoffs this year.  Isaiah Thomas did.  Why oh why on earth would trade IT and a Top-3 pick for him????

By this logic, half the league's players shouldn't be targeted in trade, even if Ainge buys low on them.

Jimmy Butler and the Bulls were clearly worse than Isaiah Thomas and the Celtics this year.  By your logic, we should react to these facts by trading Isaiah for Butler, throw in Amir Johnson to make salaries match...oh and for good measure give Chicago a top-3 pick.

I like my logic better.

Your "logic" includes a strawman fallacy.

I'm on record as wanting to keep IT to pair him with Butler.
DKC League is now on reddit!: http://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague

Re: Would you trade IT + 3-5 pick for Jimmy Butler ?
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2016, 08:47:25 PM »

Offline Coast2Coast

  • Xavier Tillman
  • Posts: 45
  • Tommy Points: 3
My god butler is so overrated.

No I wouldn't do that.

But if Kevin Durant tells ainge the only way he will come to Boston is if we land butler - I trade the entire team for that overrated borderline star if that's what it takes to get him.


I agree. I would never do that unless it 100% brought Durant.

Re: Would you trade IT + 3-5 pick for Jimmy Butler ?
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2016, 08:57:37 PM »

Offline Smokeeye123

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2374
  • Tommy Points: 156
IT is an allstar, on the leagues best contract (besides Curry), a great locker room guy, and is the face of the franchise. He's representing us in the lottery for pete's sake.

IT is going nowhere.

Re: Would you trade IT + 3-5 pick for Jimmy Butler ?
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2016, 09:08:04 PM »

Offline mctyson

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5087
  • Tommy Points: 372
Trade

To Bulls: IT, 2016 nets pick, Celtics pick, 35th pick, Amir
To Celtics: Butler, Barstow


Celtics lineup after trade (not considering draft or FA results)

C- ?
PF-  KO
SF- Crowder
SG- Butler (also primary ball handler)
PG- AB  (guards pg anyways)

C-  Jerebko
PF- Mickey/Barstow
SF- ?
SG-  Smart
PG-  Rozier
 

yay or nay?

Nay and this makes no sense.  Jimmy Butler did not make the playoffs this year.  Isaiah Thomas did.  Why oh why on earth would trade IT and a Top-3 pick for him????

By this logic, half the league's players shouldn't be targeted in trade, even if Ainge buys low on them.

Jimmy Butler and the Bulls were clearly worse than Isaiah Thomas and the Celtics this year.  By your logic, we should react to these facts by trading Isaiah for Butler, throw in Amir Johnson to make salaries match...oh and for good measure give Chicago a top-3 pick.

I like my logic better.

Your "logic" includes a strawman fallacy.

I'm on record as wanting to keep IT to pair him with Butler.

What is a "straw man fallacy" about the fact that the Bulls were worse than the Celtics this year?  What more do you want for factual accuracy (the opposite of fallacy) then that?  The original post suggested trading:  the best player from the better team + a top 3 pick + another first round pick + our starting center (and a high 2nd round pick for good measure) for the best player on the worse team.

That is not a straw man and is a direct response to his idea that Butler is worth Thomas and all that other stuff.   He is not.  Glad you are on record on that tho.

Re: Would you trade IT + 3-5 pick for Jimmy Butler ?
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2016, 09:12:00 PM »

Offline Granath

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2154
  • Tommy Points: 567
The original trade is insane. I thought it was someone who might have bumped their heads but it's just trollboy16f.

PER 36 (this is one of those times per 36 works well):

IT: 24.8 ppg, 3.3 rebounds, 6.9 assists, .562 true shooting percentage, $7m/yr contract
Butler: 20.4 ppg, 5.2 rebounds, 4.7 assists, .563 true shooting percentage, $19m/yr contract

They're basically the same age. So offensively, Butler gains you absolutely nothing. Nada. If anything, IT is the superior offensive player. Defensively, there's little doubt Butler >>>> IT. So if everything is equal, I'd rather have Butler.

But everything isn't equal. So is Butler's superiority on the defensive end worth $12m a year? Maybe, but probably not. Is it worth $12m a year AND a top 5 pick? Not just no, but 7734 (calculator humor) no.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Would you trade IT + 3-5 pick for Jimmy Butler ?
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2016, 09:19:35 PM »

Offline loco_91

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2087
  • Tommy Points: 145
NO.

Re: Would you trade IT + 3-5 pick for Jimmy Butler ?
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2016, 09:25:53 PM »

Offline Atzar

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9136
  • Tommy Points: 1649
The original trade is insane. I thought it was someone who might have bumped their heads but it's just trollboy16f.

PER 36 (this is one of those times per 36 works well):

IT: 24.8 ppg, 3.3 rebounds, 6.9 assists, .562 true shooting percentage, $7m/yr contract
Butler: 20.4 ppg, 5.2 rebounds, 4.7 assists, .563 true shooting percentage, $19m/yr contract

They're basically the same age. So offensively, Butler gains you absolutely nothing. Nada. If anything, IT is the superior offensive player. Defensively, there's little doubt Butler >>>> IT. So if everything is equal, I'd rather have Butler.

But everything isn't equal. So is Butler's superiority on the defensive end worth $12m a year? Maybe, but probably not. Is it worth $12m a year AND a top 5 pick? Not just no, but 7734 (calculator humor) no.

Good post...

Re: Would you trade IT + 3-5 pick for Jimmy Butler ?
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2016, 09:41:13 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
The original trade is insane. I thought it was someone who might have bumped their heads but it's just trollboy16f.

PER 36 (this is one of those times per 36 works well):

IT: 24.8 ppg, 3.3 rebounds, 6.9 assists, .562 true shooting percentage, $7m/yr contract
Butler: 20.4 ppg, 5.2 rebounds, 4.7 assists, .563 true shooting percentage, $19m/yr contract

They're basically the same age. So offensively, Butler gains you absolutely nothing. Nada. If anything, IT is the superior offensive player. Defensively, there's little doubt Butler >>>> IT. So if everything is equal, I'd rather have Butler.

But everything isn't equal. So is Butler's superiority on the defensive end worth $12m a year? Maybe, but probably not. Is it worth $12m a year AND a top 5 pick? Not just no, but 7734 (calculator humor) no.

Good post...

Not really

And Bulls are not likely taking number 3-5 as a centerpiece asset for Butler. It would need to include crowder or IT etc.

Butler overall is a better player. The other poster is confused , talking out loud. End conclusion Butler is better overall.

Plus is receiving a fair contract.

 

Re: Would you trade IT + 3-5 pick for Jimmy Butler ?
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2016, 10:03:16 PM »

Offline alldaboston

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4170
  • Tommy Points: 324
The original trade is insane. I thought it was someone who might have bumped their heads but it's just trollboy16f.

PER 36 (this is one of those times per 36 works well):

IT: 24.8 ppg, 3.3 rebounds, 6.9 assists, .562 true shooting percentage, $7m/yr contract
Butler: 20.4 ppg, 5.2 rebounds, 4.7 assists, .563 true shooting percentage, $19m/yr contract

They're basically the same age. So offensively, Butler gains you absolutely nothing. Nada. If anything, IT is the superior offensive player. Defensively, there's little doubt Butler >>>> IT. So if everything is equal, I'd rather have Butler.

But everything isn't equal. So is Butler's superiority on the defensive end worth $12m a year? Maybe, but probably not. Is it worth $12m a year AND a top 5 pick? Not just no, but 7734 (calculator humor) no.

Good post...

Not really

And Bulls are not likely taking number 3-5 as a centerpiece asset for Butler. It would need to include crowder or IT etc.

Butler overall is a better player. The other poster is confused , talking out loud. End conclusion Butler is better overall.

Plus is receiving a fair contract.
Sure. He's a better player. Granath said so himself:

Quote
So if everything is equal, I'd rather have Butler.

The offer you're making in this scenario is an overpay. Isaiah is not that much worse than butler. Then you're giving them a top 5 pick, another first, and Amir?

OVERPAY
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 10:24:46 PM by alldaboston »
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: Would you trade IT + 3-5 pick for Jimmy Butler ?
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2016, 10:33:55 PM »

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
Most people seem to be ignoring that triboy said the pick is #3 or worse.
Who are we getting with #3 right now that looks like an All Star? The drop off from Simmons/Ingram to the others is enormous.
To triboy, I think we're giving up too much in this trade but I understand your reasoning.

I don't know how many times I have to say this, but I will anyway.

Butler is a top 10 scorer in the NBA.
He is also a top 10 defender.
He is 26.

He is like a steroid version of Jae Crowder at the shooting guard position and he's being paid $17 million and is locked into his contract for another 3 seasons.

IT is just so cheap that I don't think we could give him up in a Butler deal. Yeah he's a defensive liability but he's an amazing scorer.

Butler is not overrated. He is underrated.
He is arguably the best 2 way shooting guard in the NBA. Can guard multiple positions, get a reasonably efficient 20 ppg 5 rebounds 4 assists whilst playing elite defense on guys like Curry, Harden and Klay Thompson.
He is not a superstar top 5 NBA player, but he's a top 10-15 NBA player and would make us a true contender with Durant here.
Even if we don't get Durant here, having Butler locked up for 3 more years would be a huge lure for other free agents.

But in summary, I'd prefer to keep IT and Crowder in a Jimmy Butler trade.
I think they'll ask for Marcus Smart because they'll be rebuilding from the ground up with that Brooklyn pick and their own picks.

"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Would you trade IT + 3-5 pick for Jimmy Butler ?
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2016, 10:35:03 PM »

Offline Eja117

  • NCE
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19274
  • Tommy Points: 1254
God no. Only if I had a crystal ball and knew it would lead to Durant coming here or something

Re: Would you trade IT + 3-5 pick for Jimmy Butler ?
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2016, 10:37:19 PM »

Offline Denis998

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3308
  • Tommy Points: 388
  • Rutgers '17
no

Re: Would you trade IT + 3-5 pick for Jimmy Butler ?
« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2016, 10:49:52 PM »

Offline max215

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8448
  • Tommy Points: 624
Put me in the "only if it ensures we get Durant" group

I'll join this group. In a vacuum, I hate this trade, but if Durant commits (provided Danny makes this deal) then you have to do it.
Isaiah, you were lightning in a bottle.

DKC Clippers

Re: Would you trade IT + 3-5 pick for Jimmy Butler ?
« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2016, 10:52:02 PM »

Offline max215

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8448
  • Tommy Points: 624
Most people seem to be ignoring that triboy said the pick is #3 or worse.
Who are we getting with #3 right now that looks like an All Star? The drop off from Simmons/Ingram to the others is enormous.
To triboy, I think we're giving up too much in this trade but I understand your reasoning.

I don't know how many times I have to say this, but I will anyway.

Butler is a top 10 scorer in the NBA.
He is also a top 10 defender.
He is 26.

He is like a steroid version of Jae Crowder at the shooting guard position and he's being paid $17 million and is locked into his contract for another 3 seasons.

IT is just so cheap that I don't think we could give him up in a Butler deal. Yeah he's a defensive liability but he's an amazing scorer.

Butler is not overrated. He is underrated.
He is arguably the best 2 way shooting guard in the NBA. Can guard multiple positions, get a reasonably efficient 20 ppg 5 rebounds 4 assists whilst playing elite defense on guys like Curry, Harden and Klay Thompson.
He is not a superstar top 5 NBA player, but he's a top 10-15 NBA player and would make us a true contender with Durant here.
Even if we don't get Durant here, having Butler locked up for 3 more years would be a huge lure for other free agents.

But in summary, I'd prefer to keep IT and Crowder in a Jimmy Butler trade.
I think they'll ask for Marcus Smart because they'll be rebuilding from the ground up with that Brooklyn pick and their own picks.

You really think Butler's a top ten scorer in the league? I love Butler too, but I think that's quite a stretch.
Isaiah, you were lightning in a bottle.

DKC Clippers