Poll

If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?

Jae Crowder
10 (18.9%)
Avery Bradley
25 (47.2%)
It depends on what we'd get in return
18 (34%)

Total Members Voted: 53

Author Topic: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?  (Read 6019 times)

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Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2016, 07:55:26 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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While we're on the subject, who would have thought around this time last year that Bradley and Crowder's trade value would be as high as it is now? I mean it's not like they are stars or anything but they bring a lot to the table that teams crave and they're both on discount contracts.

To answer the question though, I'd trade Bradley.

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2016, 08:14:14 PM »

Online SparzWizard

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If Celtics land Jimmy Butler and Kevin Durant...bye bye Crowder.


#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown)
#JFJM (Just Fire Joe Mazzulla)

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2016, 08:17:26 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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If Celtics land Jimmy Butler and Kevin Durant...bye bye Crowder.

Basically. We will need Avery in the finals vs curry and the warriors
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2016, 09:25:37 AM »

Offline LilRip

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if we're getting a guy like Jimmy Butler or Durant, then we keep Bradley and ship out Crowder. Bradley can handle quick players while Butler or Durant can handle bigger players.

If we were getting a pick back (or basically, just losing a guy on a roster), I'd keep Crowder. We have more depth at the guard position than the wing.

- LilRip

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2016, 09:47:21 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

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Taking away the idea of what you get in return, draft and free agency you move AB. We have a stable of guards and Crowder is our best 3/4 making him harder to replace.

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2016, 11:31:46 AM »

Offline chambers

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This is a good poker scenario. The best poker players are able to watch/observe how their opponents play each hand differently whilst picking up on their tendencies and patterns. This allows them to get inside their opponents head or 'point of view' and understand how they make decisions so they can exploit them in future scenarios.

Danny Ainge wants Butler yet understands how important Crowder's versatility is in today's NBA. He also will want to keep the better player of the two. It doesn't mean the Bulls will necessarily accept Danny's stance/wants, but if we ask ourselves which pairing would get us closer to an NBA championship, and who is the better player.

To me (and most of us) that is Crowder.
And that's why he'll do whatever he can to keep Crowder whilst getting Jimmy Buckets, and he'll get Stevens to make it work.

I still believe the Bulls won't want Crowder or Bradley and they'd prefer Smart and/Rozier+Hunter.

I also believe Danny will do whatever he can to hold on to Smart.
He's a master at this stuff and juggling these assets and I can't wait to see what he does. He is a brilliant strategist.


Crowder is a better and more valuable player in the NBA than Bradley and that's why I'd prefer to keep him.


"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2016, 08:34:02 PM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

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I have a feeling that one of these players will be packaged in a trade and dealt to another team. If you had to pick one to stay, who would it be?

 I am not persuaded that they have to give up either player. Having said that, keeping Crowder is a no-brainer.

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2016, 07:59:06 AM »

Offline Celtic_Pride777

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I have a feeling that one of these players will be packaged in a trade and dealt to another team. If you had to pick one to stay, who would it be?

 I am not persuaded that they have to give up either player. Having said that, keeping Crowder is a no-brainer.

If you want to persuade Chicago to give us Jimmy Butler, you're gonna have to give up a proven player...in fact, wasn't their demand to get Crowder along with our BKN pick?

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2016, 08:55:33 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Bradley all day everyday and 100 times on Sunday.

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2016, 09:02:44 AM »

Offline jambr380

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I agree that Smart will probably be the one most sought after, especially after his impressive playoff performance. If we are going after Butler and Durant, then I think we can afford to lose Smart (although I am not psyched about it) since we will be in immediate contention with all guys in their primes.

On top of that, along with IT and AB, Smart will also need to be paid in a couple of years. Crowder is the one we absolutely need to keep.

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2016, 09:46:20 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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I have a feeling that one of these players will be packaged in a trade and dealt to another team. If you had to pick one to stay, who would it be?
depends on who'd be coming back in the deal.

in a vacuum, we have more guards than SFs so dealing AB would be dealing from a position where we have more players to step into his spot.

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2016, 01:39:19 PM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

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I have a feeling that one of these players will be packaged in a trade and dealt to another team. If you had to pick one to stay, who would it be?

 I am not persuaded that they have to give up either player. Having said that, keeping Crowder is a no-brainer.

If you want to persuade Chicago to give us Jimmy Butler, you're gonna have to give up a proven player...in fact, wasn't their demand to get Crowder along with our BKN pick?

I don't think I know why you'd have to give up a proven player, or what "proven" means.  Tyler Zeller has proven that he's an NBA player, for example.  The Celtics are in the phase of the cycle where they've got core guys they're building around. Any team in the league would like to get Crowder right now, but he's worth more to the Celtics than anyone else.  If Paxson/Forman need Crowder in the deal, I say no - even though Butler is the better player right now.

 Chicago's situation is  quite different from what it was a year ago - they're very disappointed and are open to drastic measures. Pau had a great year but 36-year olds need help; they ran a large volume of offense through him that can't be sustained. The logical course of action would be to blow it up and build around Butler, but in their final press conference Paxson/Forman didn't signal that at all - while going out of their way to support Hoiberg.

So they dump Butler and go to war with Rose's knees, Dunleavy's back, Noah's knees and shoulder, etc.? No.  Absent Butler, they'll need to clear out salary and find young players.  The range of draft picks that the Celtics have probably look real intriguing.
 

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2016, 03:31:08 PM »

Offline mef730

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I'd trade Crowder. I think he'd be more overvalued in the market than Bradley.

Mike

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2016, 03:59:32 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Bradley, but it's mainly because of salaries.

In my ultimate pipe dream, the team is able to keep the pick (which lands Ben Simmons), maintain double max cap space (to sign Durant + another star), and trade for an impact player (Cousins?  Love?  Blake?  Butler?) all while keeping 1 of Bradley or Crowder.

Unfortunately, in such a ridiculous over-the-top ultimate pipe-dream, it's basically impossible to pull that off without including Bradley's 8.3 million dollar contract.   

Quote
The great news is that Bradley and Crowder are on bargain contracts.  The bad news is, if you start coming up with wild “best case scenarios” like this, you’re going to need to make some sacrifices just for the idea to work within NBA financial constraints.   

For example, let’s say Jimmy Butler is the C’s target.   Butler is set to make 17.5 million next year.  You could offer Bradley (8.3 mil), Crowder (6.3 mil) and Olynyk (3 mil) to match salary.  Imagine Boston also included a future Brooklyn 1st (or two) and some of their later picks this year (such as #16 and #23), and it’s not inconceivable that a Butler trade could actually get done without giving up our pick this year.   

It is semi-plausible that a deal could get done without Jae Crowder, but it’s a bit more complicated.  Unfortunately, Bradley is likely the odd man out in any scenario.  You could, however, maybe trade Bradley (8.3 mil), Olynyk (3 mil), Rozier (1.9 mil), Young (1.8 mil), Mickey (1.2 mil) and Hunter (1.2 mil) to match the 17.5 mil being acquired.  Additional picks could be included as necessary, but then it becomes a question of whether or not Chicago can take on six guys + picks for Jimmy Butler:   

Tallying up all of the above, Boston could (theoretically) have a summer in which they keep Thomas, keep Smart, keep Crowder, draft Ben Simmons, trade for Jimmy Butler, sign Kevin Durant, sign Al Horford, and still have assets to spare. 

1) Whether we would need to send out matching salary depends on whether we are over the cap.  The timing of our various transactions matters.   It is possible to shed salary to get under the cap by enough room that Danny wouldn't have to send out any matching salary (other than that of the actual key assets of the trade).   That sort of sequence may not be best for pulling off other desired transactions, though.
2) Assuming we were completely over the cap when doing the deal, we'd still only need to send out 12.5M to match Butler's 17.5M incoming salary.  We don't have to send out the full amount that is coming back in.

There are numerous combinations of Celtic contracts that would work to do the match.  Which one to use depends on what CHI wants and what you are trying to achieve.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2016, 04:02:33 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Bradley, but it's mainly because of salaries.

In my ultimate pipe dream, the team is able to keep the pick (which lands Ben Simmons), maintain double max cap space (to sign Durant + another star), and trade for an impact player (Cousins?  Love?  Blake?  Butler?) all while keeping 1 of Bradley or Crowder.

Unfortunately, in such a ridiculous over-the-top ultimate pipe-dream, it's basically impossible to pull that off without including Bradley's 8.3 million dollar contract.   

Quote
The great news is that Bradley and Crowder are on bargain contracts.  The bad news is, if you start coming up with wild “best case scenarios” like this, you’re going to need to make some sacrifices just for the idea to work within NBA financial constraints.   

For example, let’s say Jimmy Butler is the C’s target.   Butler is set to make 17.5 million next year.  You could offer Bradley (8.3 mil), Crowder (6.3 mil) and Olynyk (3 mil) to match salary.  Imagine Boston also included a future Brooklyn 1st (or two) and some of their later picks this year (such as #16 and #23), and it’s not inconceivable that a Butler trade could actually get done without giving up our pick this year.   

It is semi-plausible that a deal could get done without Jae Crowder, but it’s a bit more complicated.  Unfortunately, Bradley is likely the odd man out in any scenario.  You could, however, maybe trade Bradley (8.3 mil), Olynyk (3 mil), Rozier (1.9 mil), Young (1.8 mil), Mickey (1.2 mil) and Hunter (1.2 mil) to match the 17.5 mil being acquired.  Additional picks could be included as necessary, but then it becomes a question of whether or not Chicago can take on six guys + picks for Jimmy Butler:   

Tallying up all of the above, Boston could (theoretically) have a summer in which they keep Thomas, keep Smart, keep Crowder, draft Ben Simmons, trade for Jimmy Butler, sign Kevin Durant, sign Al Horford, and still have assets to spare. 

1) Whether we would need to send out matching salary depends on whether we are over the cap.  The timing of our various transactions matters.   It is possible to shed salary to get under the cap by enough room that Danny wouldn't have to send out any matching salary (other than that of the actual key assets of the trade).   That sort of sequence may not be best for pulling off other desired transactions, though.
2) Assuming we were completely over the cap when doing the deal, we'd still only need to send out 12.5M to match Butler's 17.5M incoming salary.  We don't have to send out the full amount that is coming back in.

There are numerous combinations of Celtic contracts that would work to do the match.  Which one to use depends on what CHI wants and what you are trying to achieve.
The advantage to matching salaries is that you maintain double max cap space while acquiring a star.
Quote from: George W. Bush
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