Poll

If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?

Jae Crowder
10 (18.9%)
Avery Bradley
25 (47.2%)
It depends on what we'd get in return
18 (34%)

Total Members Voted: 53

Author Topic: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?  (Read 6028 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2016, 02:21:28 PM »

Offline ssspence

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6375
  • Tommy Points: 403
I'd rather trade Smart.

I'm not opposed to that. I am pessimistic his shooting will ever improve a lot, given his terrible form.

Unfortunately I suspect his value is lower.
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2016, 03:40:35 PM »

Offline Hemingway

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1181
  • Tommy Points: 123
Yeah, ssspence I think you are right.

Crowder vs AB is really hard to say. I'm really tempted to say Crowder before the injury was playing a bit better and has more potential to grow. But he's been playing meaningful minutes for a short time so it's hard to say. We know we have a good thing with Avery. It's easy to see Jae as the lesser now as he wasn;t that good due to injury in the playoffs. IDK, to close to call for me. I'd be really sad to see either one go.

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2016, 04:12:34 PM »

Offline oldtype

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1677
  • Tommy Points: 143
It has to be Crowder because of his contract length. We'll already be sweating about how big AB's next contract is going to be by next season.


Great words from a great man

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2016, 04:27:29 PM »

Offline loco_91

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2087
  • Tommy Points: 145
Crowder is a better player and he's under contract for longer. Much more versatile on both ends. AB is the better shooter + he guards one position extremely well, but Crowder is more of a slasher on offense and he can guard 3 positions comfortably.

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2016, 04:35:40 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8595
  • Tommy Points: 842
For me it depends on whats coming back.

Avery has been really really growing on me lately. His on ball D and his shooting is really valuable and towards the end of the year he started to create a tiny bit on his own which would be a huge step for him.

Id probably have to say AB on the condition we would add shooting. I base that off the presence of Smart and Terry and Crowders contract.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2016, 04:44:01 PM »

Offline Evantime34

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11942
  • Tommy Points: 764
  • Eagerly Awaiting the Next Fantasy Draft
I think what Crowder does, shoots the 3, drives close outs, and provide elite level defense at the 3/4 is more valuable than what Bradley does. I think we would have a much harder time replacing Crowder than we would replacing Bradley.

DKC:  Rockets
CB Draft: Memphis Grizz
Players: Klay Thompson, Jabari Parker, Aaron Gordon
Next 3 picks: 4.14, 4.15, 4.19

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2016, 04:44:28 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
Bradley, but it's mainly because of salaries.

In my ultimate pipe dream, the team is able to keep the pick (which lands Ben Simmons), maintain double max cap space (to sign Durant + another star), and trade for an impact player (Cousins?  Love?  Blake?  Butler?) all while keeping 1 of Bradley or Crowder.

Unfortunately, in such a ridiculous over-the-top ultimate pipe-dream, it's basically impossible to pull that off without including Bradley's 8.3 million dollar contract.   

Quote
The great news is that Bradley and Crowder are on bargain contracts.  The bad news is, if you start coming up with wild “best case scenarios” like this, you’re going to need to make some sacrifices just for the idea to work within NBA financial constraints.   

For example, let’s say Jimmy Butler is the C’s target.   Butler is set to make 17.5 million next year.  You could offer Bradley (8.3 mil), Crowder (6.3 mil) and Olynyk (3 mil) to match salary.  Imagine Boston also included a future Brooklyn 1st (or two) and some of their later picks this year (such as #16 and #23), and it’s not inconceivable that a Butler trade could actually get done without giving up our pick this year.   

It is semi-plausible that a deal could get done without Jae Crowder, but it’s a bit more complicated.  Unfortunately, Bradley is likely the odd man out in any scenario.  You could, however, maybe trade Bradley (8.3 mil), Olynyk (3 mil), Rozier (1.9 mil), Young (1.8 mil), Mickey (1.2 mil) and Hunter (1.2 mil) to match the 17.5 mil being acquired.  Additional picks could be included as necessary, but then it becomes a question of whether or not Chicago can take on six guys + picks for Jimmy Butler:   

Tallying up all of the above, Boston could (theoretically) have a summer in which they keep Thomas, keep Smart, keep Crowder, draft Ben Simmons, trade for Jimmy Butler, sign Kevin Durant, sign Al Horford, and still have assets to spare. 

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2016, 04:55:53 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8595
  • Tommy Points: 842
Bradley, but it's mainly because of salaries.

In my ultimate pipe dream, the team is able to keep the pick (which lands Ben Simmons), maintain double max cap space (to sign Durant + another star), and trade for an impact player (Cousins?  Love?  Blake?  Butler?) all while keeping 1 of Bradley or Crowder.

Unfortunately, in such a ridiculous over-the-top ultimate pipe-dream, it's basically impossible to pull that off without including Bradley's 8.3 million dollar contract.   

Quote
The great news is that Bradley and Crowder are on bargain contracts.  The bad news is, if you start coming up with wild “best case scenarios” like this, you’re going to need to make some sacrifices just for the idea to work within NBA financial constraints.   

For example, let’s say Jimmy Butler is the C’s target.   Butler is set to make 17.5 million next year.  You could offer Bradley (8.3 mil), Crowder (6.3 mil) and Olynyk (3 mil) to match salary.  Imagine Boston also included a future Brooklyn 1st (or two) and some of their later picks this year (such as #16 and #23), and it’s not inconceivable that a Butler trade could actually get done without giving up our pick this year.   

It is semi-plausible that a deal could get done without Jae Crowder, but it’s a bit more complicated.  Unfortunately, Bradley is likely the odd man out in any scenario.  You could, however, maybe trade Bradley (8.3 mil), Olynyk (3 mil), Rozier (1.9 mil), Young (1.8 mil), Mickey (1.2 mil) and Hunter (1.2 mil) to match the 17.5 mil being acquired.  Additional picks could be included as necessary, but then it becomes a question of whether or not Chicago can take on six guys + picks for Jimmy Butler:   

Tallying up all of the above, Boston could (theoretically) have a summer in which they keep Thomas, keep Smart, keep Crowder, draft Ben Simmons, trade for Jimmy Butler, sign Kevin Durant, sign Al Horford, and still have assets to spare. 
I had not read that post of yours.

I like the idea of pursuing Jimmy without sacrificing that top pick.

If we sent the Jae AB Kelly package for Butler I think they might bite. Especially if you tossed in like 3 firsts.

This would also clean up some lineup clutter. You do mention this is a bit pie in the sky, but why not?! Its the offseason lets have some fun!

In my pie in the sky offseason you would pull that off then move Brooklyn '16 for Cousins. If it is the #1 pick, you might get them to throw in Mclemore who I like.

Then KD signs.

IT, Jimmy, KD, someone irrelevant, Cousins
we keep Smart! (my favorite player)

Also, Im fairly sure we would still have about 10 mil to fill in roster holes. 
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2016, 05:12:14 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
Bradley, but it's mainly because of salaries.

In my ultimate pipe dream, the team is able to keep the pick (which lands Ben Simmons), maintain double max cap space (to sign Durant + another star), and trade for an impact player (Cousins?  Love?  Blake?  Butler?) all while keeping 1 of Bradley or Crowder.

Unfortunately, in such a ridiculous over-the-top ultimate pipe-dream, it's basically impossible to pull that off without including Bradley's 8.3 million dollar contract.   

Quote
The great news is that Bradley and Crowder are on bargain contracts.  The bad news is, if you start coming up with wild “best case scenarios” like this, you’re going to need to make some sacrifices just for the idea to work within NBA financial constraints.   

For example, let’s say Jimmy Butler is the C’s target.   Butler is set to make 17.5 million next year.  You could offer Bradley (8.3 mil), Crowder (6.3 mil) and Olynyk (3 mil) to match salary.  Imagine Boston also included a future Brooklyn 1st (or two) and some of their later picks this year (such as #16 and #23), and it’s not inconceivable that a Butler trade could actually get done without giving up our pick this year.   

It is semi-plausible that a deal could get done without Jae Crowder, but it’s a bit more complicated.  Unfortunately, Bradley is likely the odd man out in any scenario.  You could, however, maybe trade Bradley (8.3 mil), Olynyk (3 mil), Rozier (1.9 mil), Young (1.8 mil), Mickey (1.2 mil) and Hunter (1.2 mil) to match the 17.5 mil being acquired.  Additional picks could be included as necessary, but then it becomes a question of whether or not Chicago can take on six guys + picks for Jimmy Butler:   

Tallying up all of the above, Boston could (theoretically) have a summer in which they keep Thomas, keep Smart, keep Crowder, draft Ben Simmons, trade for Jimmy Butler, sign Kevin Durant, sign Al Horford, and still have assets to spare. 
I had not read that post of yours.

I like the idea of pursuing Jimmy without sacrificing that top pick.

If we sent the Jae AB Kelly package for Butler I think they might bite. Especially if you tossed in like 3 firsts.

This would also clean up some lineup clutter. You do mention this is a bit pie in the sky, but why not?! Its the offseason lets have some fun!

In my pie in the sky offseason you would pull that off then move Brooklyn '16 for Cousins. If it is the #1 pick, you might get them to throw in Mclemore who I like.

Then KD signs.

IT, Jimmy, KD, someone irrelevant, Cousins
we keep Smart! (my favorite player)

Also, Im fairly sure we would still have about 10 mil to fill in roster holes.
I like that idea too.  Let's take it a bit further and go full-on crazy-town.

Land the #1 pick - keep Ben Simmons

Bradley + Crowder + Olynyk + Rozier + #23 + #31 for Butler

#16 + #35 + #45 + #52 + #58 + Hunter + Mickey + 2017 Brooklyn pick swap, 2018 Brooklyn 1st, Future Memphis 1st for Cousins (absorb his salary). 

Sign Durant to 25 mil.

Thomas - 6.5 mil, Smart - 3.6 mil, Simmons - 4.7 mil, Cousins - 16.9 mil, Durant - 25 mil.

That puts us at 56.7 mil.   We have 35.3 mil left.  Sign Derozan, Pau Gasol and Luol Deng.

PG - Thomas
SG - Derozan
SF - Durant
PF - Simmons
C - Cousins
---
Smart, Deng, Gasol.

Then use stem cells to anti-age Larry Bird and Bill Russell (or use a time machine, science permitting) - sign them for the min level.

Then in 2017 when the cap jumps another 20 mil, sign Steph Curry.


Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2016, 05:18:56 PM »

Offline alldaboston

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4170
  • Tommy Points: 324
LarBrd, I didn't wanna quote the posts above, it'd get way too long and confusing, but as far as this move for butler:

Bradley + Crowder + Olynyk + Rozier + #23 + #31 for Butler

I feel that would be an offer that would easily be trumped by other teams. Talking with lakers fans, they would like butler, and would be prepared to trade their top 3 pick, Clarkson (sign and trade, though idk if that's allowed), Nance, and other smaller pieces, for butler.

If the Bulls wanted to start it over, I would believe that they'd view that offer better than ours. What do you think?
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2016, 05:36:08 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
LarBrd, I didn't wanna quote the posts above, it'd get way too long and confusing, but as far as this move for butler:

Bradley + Crowder + Olynyk + Rozier + #23 + #31 for Butler

I feel that would be an offer that would easily be trumped by other teams. Talking with lakers fans, they would like butler, and would be prepared to trade their top 3 pick, Clarkson (sign and trade, though idk if that's allowed), Nance, and other smaller pieces, for butler.

If the Bulls wanted to start it over, I would believe that they'd view that offer better than ours. What do you think?
i agree.   But I do think Bradley and Crowder should have some significant trade value.

It would be interesting to have a conversation about how those guys are seen around the league.   Are they seen as role players?  Quality starters who have peaked?   All-defense level two-way top-tier starters? 

It seems most in the media suggest any move we make for a star will have to start with the inclusion of the Brooklyn pick and probably Crowder.

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2016, 05:43:12 PM »

Offline alldaboston

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4170
  • Tommy Points: 324
LarBrd, I didn't wanna quote the posts above, it'd get way too long and confusing, but as far as this move for butler:

Bradley + Crowder + Olynyk + Rozier + #23 + #31 for Butler

I feel that would be an offer that would easily be trumped by other teams. Talking with lakers fans, they would like butler, and would be prepared to trade their top 3 pick, Clarkson (sign and trade, though idk if that's allowed), Nance, and other smaller pieces, for butler.

If the Bulls wanted to start it over, I would believe that they'd view that offer better than ours. What do you think?
i agree.   But I do think Bradley and Crowder should have some significant trade value.

It would be interesting to have a conversation about how those guys are seen around the league.   Are they seen as role players?  Quality starters who have peaked?   All-defense level two-way top-tier starters? 

It seems most in the media suggest any move we make for a star will have to start with the inclusion of the Brooklyn pick and probably Crowder.

I honestly don't think Olynyk is seen as much. Rozier, maybe has caught a few glances, given that he played solid minutes in a playoff series. I think crowder and Bradley have solid value though. Crowder for being a solid 2 way player and Bradley for his defense and shooting.  For the lakers, I think I'm not alone in saying Clarkson is a good stats on a bad team guy. He strikes me as a chucker and nothing more. (Maybe I'm being unfair due to my laker hatred, idk)
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2016, 06:43:35 PM »

Offline Greyman

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 784
  • Tommy Points: 211
Original question - I would trade Crowder. For me it is not as close as for others, Crowder has been great this season but I question his durability and potential to adapt to new line ups where his role is different. AB will be fine whatever happens, he is consistent like that.

As for who would make the best package for Butler, without quoting everyone, many of the suggestions seem to overpay to me. I know a guy like Butler wont come cheap and it is a competitive market but you don't want to offer the farm.

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2016, 07:14:31 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
Bradley. 

Crowder plays a position that is harder to fill with a productive two-way player.  He's also under contract for longer at an outrageously cheap salary relative to his production.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: If needed, who would you rather see traded....Crowder or Bradley?
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2016, 07:49:36 PM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7489
  • Tommy Points: 741
I really love the way Bradley plays the game but he'd be the one I trade first. It comes down to cersatility for me. Crowder's ability to guard 3's and 4's in today's NBA is incredibly valuable. As great of a defender as Bradley is, he gives up a lot of height to 3's or big 2's but he can't play PG on offense. So he always has to be played alongside a bigger guard who can handle the ball. I can see that becoming limiting in the future.

That and my girlfriend has a thing for Crowder and that's basically how I get her to watch games.
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008