Author Topic: Danny's draft predicament with Butler and Durant  (Read 5777 times)

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Re: Danny's draft predicament with Butler and Durant
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2016, 10:44:00 AM »

Offline MBunge

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I'm still not sold on the fact that we can't trade for Cousins, which would just give us one more potential star to trade for to attract Durant. Plus, I'm worried about giving up significant assets for Butler when our frontcourt is much more in need of an upgrade and the position that Butler plays (the swing 2-3 position) is probably our strongest position at the moment.

Of course, if only Butler is available then I still think you go for him, just as long as you don't overpay too much, i.e. Crowder + Smart + Brooklyn pick + other picks. Even if we would get Durant AND Butler, I still don't think we're a legitimate contender until we upgrade our 5 spot.
Interesting article on RealGM about how Griffin and Paul just don't work together. Personally I think they're pretty much the only team that could beat GSW in a 7 game series in the West.

http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/241720/Ordinary-Together-MVPs-Apart

 I'd much prefer Griffin over Cousins. I'm biased though because I hate Cousins. I even worry that getting Cousins here would turn Durant away from becoming a Celtic since their recent on court incident.
I would say Danny's #1 targets will be Cousins and Griffin with the BRK 16' pick, and then Butler with the remaining assets in our pool.

It would be pretty sweet if he could nab two of those guys by dumping everything we have in a colossal off-season. eg...

#1 or #2 pick for Griffin and then
2017 Nets pick swap+2018 Nets pick+ Rozier+Hunter+Smart for Butler
etc
leaves us with

IT
Butler
Crowder
Griffin
Random center

with AB, Olynyk off the bench

TP for the article Chambers. Outside Boston, Philly, SAS and LAC are the teams I know best in the NBA.  I really agree with the following paragraph:

Quote
Jordan’s flaws are obvious: the horrendous free throw shooting, the nonexistent jumper, the fact that he has no one to guard when opponents go small. But as far as the Clips are concerned, the biggest problem with Jordan is that he doesn’t pair well with Blake Griffin and his aforementioned 20-foot range. It’s difficult, in the modern NBA, to have two big men who play heavy minutes together and can’t shoot threes. It’s even worse when one of them doesn’t shoot at all. The Clippers find ways to make this work because Jordan is quite good and Griffin is some unholy mashup of Charles Barkley and Shawn Kemp, but it’s another case of the team being less than the sum of its parts.

Which brings me back to why on Earth did Doc decide to prioritize half court offence with this crew.It's obvious that Jordan and CP3 work best at fast breaks + having Jordan and Griffin play together messes up your spacing at half court. Sometimes I wonder if professional coaches can be arrogant enough to be blind to what is obvious to the eyes of an average sports fan...

(a digression from the main topic, apologies)

Back to the main topic, Butler is the kind of versatile player that Stevens loves; and our cramped SG position won't be much of a problem if we give up AB in the trade. But this question can only be answered with precision if we know what other trades/FA deals are on the table, and this info is available only to front offices right now...

Going back to our conversations last summer, these trades are fun to discuss but nearly impossible to predict in advance.

Yep the Griffin/Jordan front court is a weird one. I guess they just rely so much on the threat of the pick and roll with DJ and the pick and pop with Blake and by keeping Reddick and CP3 waiting for threes that it works when they're hitting the three.

Makes you wonder whether Griffin would be better as a center in Stevens offense with his mid range jumpshot and lack of three point shot. Like a mini Dwight Howard that can kick out to shooters but is fast enough to guard on defensive switches and gallop like a horse in transition.

This is going to be a fun and tiring summer of speculation Greece ;)

The Clippers are maybe the best example of a team falling in love with their own guy.  They watched Jordan come in as a second round pick as so exceed expectations that they're blind to the fact that he's still a remarkably limited player.  Bringing in Doc, who never got over his man crush on Perk and just transferred it to Jordan, didn't help.  Once they had Paul and Griffin, Jordan is absolutely the piece they should have moved to bring in a real star. 

Even though he would have given them only one good year, they would have had a much better shot at a title if they'd traded Jordan for KG when they "traded" for Doc.

Mike

Re: Danny's draft predicament with Butler and Durant
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2016, 11:12:55 AM »

Offline CoachBo

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Quote
#3-#6 Pick: Simple you trade. I am really high on Bender but plan A with a non top 2 pick has to be to make a trade presumably for Butler and including Smart or AB in the package. I have posted numerous times while I really like Smart I think he is the guy likely to be shipped out in a Butler deal as long as AB can agree to 6th man role. After the trade DA will have momentum to try to go after big name FAs including Durant but if he falls short he can settle for lesser moves and this team still will have a decently balanced roster and higher hopes then this past season

Are you saying you are high and you like Bender?  Because given his production, that is the only way Ainge would take him, if he was out of his mind high!

ANY GM would have to be high to waste a top 5 pick on Bender, who would be the worst draft choice in Celtics history.
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Re: Danny's draft predicament with Butler and Durant
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2016, 12:04:50 PM »

Offline mctyson

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I'm not giving up 1 or 2 for Butler. Maybe for PG, Cousins, or Blake but not Butler. And on top of all this why not just deal AB for Ibaka the number 3 or lower + 58 for Favors + 42 . Then sign DeRozan. To get KD on board

IT, DeRozan, KD, Ibaka, Favors
Rozier, Smart, Crowder, JJ, KO

I just basically said the same thing in another thread.  Also, I agree with the OP that Butler is probably the only guy who could be available that would lure Durant here, but Chicago will also probably ask for too much.

I don't see why Durant would leave OKC, Westbrook, and Ibaka/Adams/Kanter etc... to come to Boston for IT and Jimmy Bulter, if we have to trade either Smart or Crowder to get Butler.  Who else do we have that supports a title contender?  Smart and Crowder are huge pieces of this team's success and future.  Trading them doesn't make any sense.

To get Durant here, we need to keep the current team AS IS, or as much as possible, while adding another All-Star caliber player. 

How do we do that?  Any one or a combination of the following could do it if we KEEP OUR CORE INTACT. These are the only people I think will be available and would fit with our team.

1] Get lucky and get a top 2 pick. I think either of those players could be good enough to impact winning right away, but Simmons or Ingram would obviously be huge trade bait.

2] Get Kevin Love.

3] Get Al Horford.

4] Get Blake Griffin.

5] Get Jah Okafor.

6] Get Jimmy Butler.



Re: Danny's draft predicament with Butler and Durant
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2016, 12:08:43 PM »

Offline Celtic_Pride777

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I'm not giving up 1 or 2 for Butler. Maybe for PG, Cousins, or Blake but not Butler. And on top of all this why not just deal AB for Ibaka the number 3 or lower + 58 for Favors + 42 . Then sign DeRozan. To get KD on board

IT, DeRozan, KD, Ibaka, Favors
Rozier, Smart, Crowder, JJ, KO

I just basically said the same thing in another thread.  Also, I agree with the OP that Butler is probably the only guy who could be available that would lure Durant here, but Chicago will also probably ask for too much.

I don't see why Durant would leave OKC, Westbrook, and Ibaka/Adams/Kanter etc... to come to Boston for IT and Jimmy Bulter, if we have to trade either Smart or Crowder to get Butler.  Who else do we have that supports a title contender?  Smart and Crowder are huge pieces of this team's success and future.  Trading them doesn't make any sense.

To get Durant here, we need to keep the current team AS IS, or as much as possible, while adding another All-Star caliber player. 

How do we do that?  Any one or a combination of the following could do it if we KEEP OUR CORE INTACT. These are the only people I think will be available and would fit with our team.

1] Get lucky and get a top 2 pick. I think either of those players could be good enough to impact winning right away, but Simmons or Ingram would obviously be huge trade bait.

2] Get Kevin Love.

3] Get Al Horford.

4] Get Blake Griffin.

5] Get Jah Okafor.

6] Get Jimmy Butler.

So yeah...basically we have no chance of signing Durant  :(

Re: Danny's draft predicament with Butler and Durant
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2016, 12:52:56 PM »

Offline greece66

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I'm not giving up 1 or 2 for Butler. Maybe for PG, Cousins, or Blake but not Butler. And on top of all this why not just deal AB for Ibaka the number 3 or lower + 58 for Favors + 42 . Then sign DeRozan. To get KD on board

IT, DeRozan, KD, Ibaka, Favors
Rozier, Smart, Crowder, JJ, KO

I just basically said the same thing in another thread.  Also, I agree with the OP that Butler is probably the only guy who could be available that would lure Durant here, but Chicago will also probably ask for too much.

I don't see why Durant would leave OKC, Westbrook, and Ibaka/Adams/Kanter etc... to come to Boston for IT and Jimmy Bulter, if we have to trade either Smart or Crowder to get Butler.  Who else do we have that supports a title contender?  Smart and Crowder are huge pieces of this team's success and future.  Trading them doesn't make any sense.

To get Durant here, we need to keep the current team AS IS, or as much as possible, while adding another All-Star caliber player. 

How do we do that?  Any one or a combination of the following could do it if we KEEP OUR CORE INTACT. These are the only people I think will be available and would fit with our team.

1] Get lucky and get a top 2 pick. I think either of those players could be good enough to impact winning right away, but Simmons or Ingram would obviously be huge trade bait.

2] Get Kevin Love.

3] Get Al Horford.

4] Get Blake Griffin.

5] Get Jah Okafor.

6] Get Jimmy Butler.


Interesting thoughts. One thing to notice is that Horford is an FA. The rest is still under contract. Also, if this is a ranking of their strength, IMO Griffin is too low, I would put him first in the list (unless we are taking contracts in consideration: he has the worst one).

Re: Danny's draft predicament with Butler and Durant
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2016, 01:09:38 PM »

Offline ssspence

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The real question, is who does KD want to play with. Lotf of guys named here. Other names to consider(though not popular on here), Howard, Rondo and Melo.

Yep -- MVPs are lining up for the chance to play with Rondo. Howard, too. Horrible shooters are all the rage these days because the 3 really hasn't taken over the game.
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Danny's draft predicament with Butler and Durant
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2016, 01:26:45 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Kevin Love is not a good defender, he would be better than Sully in every way and most likely in attainable, but he is a poor defender.  It would be an upgrade though.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 01:32:55 PM by Celtics4ever »

Re: Danny's draft predicament with Butler and Durant
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2016, 01:56:26 PM »

Offline BigDogPitbull

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If we get Butler and Durant I could care less weather or not we have Crowder.  Bradley Butler and Durant can take up most of the SG/SF minutes.

Re: Danny's draft predicament with Butler and Durant
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2016, 05:46:03 PM »

Offline mctyson

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I'm not giving up 1 or 2 for Butler. Maybe for PG, Cousins, or Blake but not Butler. And on top of all this why not just deal AB for Ibaka the number 3 or lower + 58 for Favors + 42 . Then sign DeRozan. To get KD on board

IT, DeRozan, KD, Ibaka, Favors
Rozier, Smart, Crowder, JJ, KO

I just basically said the same thing in another thread.  Also, I agree with the OP that Butler is probably the only guy who could be available that would lure Durant here, but Chicago will also probably ask for too much.

I don't see why Durant would leave OKC, Westbrook, and Ibaka/Adams/Kanter etc... to come to Boston for IT and Jimmy Bulter, if we have to trade either Smart or Crowder to get Butler.  Who else do we have that supports a title contender?  Smart and Crowder are huge pieces of this team's success and future.  Trading them doesn't make any sense.

To get Durant here, we need to keep the current team AS IS, or as much as possible, while adding another All-Star caliber player. 

How do we do that?  Any one or a combination of the following could do it if we KEEP OUR CORE INTACT. These are the only people I think will be available and would fit with our team.

1] Get lucky and get a top 2 pick. I think either of those players could be good enough to impact winning right away, but Simmons or Ingram would obviously be huge trade bait.

2] Get Kevin Love.

3] Get Al Horford.

4] Get Blake Griffin.

5] Get Jah Okafor.

6] Get Jimmy Butler.

So yeah...basically we have no chance of signing Durant  :(

I think a few of these options are very possible.

Re: Danny's draft predicament with Butler and Durant
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2016, 05:55:42 PM »

Offline mctyson

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I'm not giving up 1 or 2 for Butler. Maybe for PG, Cousins, or Blake but not Butler. And on top of all this why not just deal AB for Ibaka the number 3 or lower + 58 for Favors + 42 . Then sign DeRozan. To get KD on board

IT, DeRozan, KD, Ibaka, Favors
Rozier, Smart, Crowder, JJ, KO

I just basically said the same thing in another thread.  Also, I agree with the OP that Butler is probably the only guy who could be available that would lure Durant here, but Chicago will also probably ask for too much.

I don't see why Durant would leave OKC, Westbrook, and Ibaka/Adams/Kanter etc... to come to Boston for IT and Jimmy Bulter, if we have to trade either Smart or Crowder to get Butler.  Who else do we have that supports a title contender?  Smart and Crowder are huge pieces of this team's success and future.  Trading them doesn't make any sense.

To get Durant here, we need to keep the current team AS IS, or as much as possible, while adding another All-Star caliber player. 

How do we do that?  Any one or a combination of the following could do it if we KEEP OUR CORE INTACT. These are the only people I think will be available and would fit with our team.

1] Get lucky and get a top 2 pick. I think either of those players could be good enough to impact winning right away, but Simmons or Ingram would obviously be huge trade bait.

2] Get Kevin Love.

3] Get Al Horford.

4] Get Blake Griffin.

5] Get Jah Okafor.

6] Get Jimmy Butler.


Interesting thoughts. One thing to notice is that Horford is an FA. The rest is still under contract. Also, if this is a ranking of their strength, IMO Griffin is too low, I would put him first in the list (unless we are taking contracts in consideration: he has the worst one).

This wasn't meant to be a ranking but it kinda worked out that way.

Griffin is in similar situation as Butler, though I think if he was acquired and Smart/Crowder left, you could make the argument that the Cs would be a stronger team vs. adding Butler without Smart/Crowder.  But I think that's unlikely.

I think it is more likely that we get lucky with Simmons or Ingram and quite frankly I wouldn't mind keeping either one of them and pitching that to free agents.

Re: Danny's draft predicament with Butler and Durant
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2016, 06:21:51 PM »

Offline greece66

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This wasn't meant to be a ranking but it kinda worked out that way.

Griffin is in similar situation as Butler, though I think if he was acquired and Smart/Crowder left, you could make the argument that the Cs would be a stronger team vs. adding Butler without Smart/Crowder.  But I think that's unlikely.

I think it is more likely that we get lucky with Simmons or Ingram and quite frankly I wouldn't mind keeping either one of them and pitching that to free agents.

iirc Griffin has 1 year left in his contract and Butler has 3; this is an important difference.
Having said this, adding Griffin to this roster would make more sense than adding Butler: Griffin would plug several holes at once (esp. scoring and rebounding; but he could provide some rim protection and ball handling too). tbh, I also think higher of Griffin as a player.

I am digressing... I also would love to see us keeping the draft and watch it develop: from a fan's perspective this is great. Having said this, I suspect Danny's plan is to trade for a star esp. if we get lucky with the ping pong balls and get pick 1 or 2.

Re: Danny's draft predicament with Butler and Durant
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2016, 06:33:39 PM »

Offline billysan

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I know this is not likely a popular suggestion, but if we had to take Pau Gasol with Butler in a trade I think we have to grab them with both hands. While he doesnt make the big man wish list with Griffin, Horford and Love, I take him to get Butler every time. He would be a nice asset as a short term rotation big and definitely an upgrade for the next few seasons until we can draft or sign a decent big. I also think that pair might make Durant look a little closer at the Celtics.
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Re: Danny's draft predicament with Butler and Durant
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2016, 06:39:06 PM »

Offline greece66

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I know this is not likely a popular suggestion, but if we had to take Pau Gasol with Butler in a trade I think we have to grab them with both hands. While he doesnt make the big man wish list with Griffin, Horford and Love, I take him to get Butler every time. He would be a nice asset as a short term rotation big and definitely an upgrade for the next few seasons until we can draft or sign a decent big. I also think that pair might make Durant look a little closer at the Celtics.
Rumour is they hate each other's guts.
Besides, Pau's remaining one year is a player's option: it's p pointless for Chicago to trade this contract.

Re: Danny's draft predicament with Butler and Durant
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2016, 06:44:06 PM »

Offline MBunge

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This wasn't meant to be a ranking but it kinda worked out that way.

Griffin is in similar situation as Butler, though I think if he was acquired and Smart/Crowder left, you could make the argument that the Cs would be a stronger team vs. adding Butler without Smart/Crowder.  But I think that's unlikely.

I think it is more likely that we get lucky with Simmons or Ingram and quite frankly I wouldn't mind keeping either one of them and pitching that to free agents.

iirc Griffin has 1 year left in his contract and Butler has 3; this is an important difference.
Having said this, adding Griffin to this roster would make more sense than adding Butler: Griffin would plug several holes at once (esp. scoring and rebounding; but he could provide some rim protection and ball handling too). tbh, I also think higher of Griffin as a player.

I am digressing... I also would love to see us keeping the draft and watch it develop: from a fan's perspective this is great. Having said this, I suspect Danny's plan is to trade for a star esp. if we get lucky with the ping pong balls and get pick 1 or 2.

The difference between Butler and Griffin is that Butler is more of a modern star in that he can be good at everything, including defense.  Griffin is more old school in that, when healthy, he's an absolute monster on offense.  Butler would probably fit in better with how Stevens wants to play.  Griffin would need to have the offense revolve around him but could be devastating if we surrounded him with IT, Bradley, Crowder and KO.

Mike

Re: Danny's draft predicament with Butler and Durant
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2016, 06:52:51 PM »

Offline billysan

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I know this is not likely a popular suggestion, but if we had to take Pau Gasol with Butler in a trade I think we have to grab them with both hands. While he doesnt make the big man wish list with Griffin, Horford and Love, I take him to get Butler every time. He would be a nice asset as a short term rotation big and definitely an upgrade for the next few seasons until we can draft or sign a decent big. I also think that pair might make Durant look a little closer at the Celtics.
Rumour is they hate each other's guts.
Besides, Pau's remaining one year is a player's option: it's p pointless for Chicago to trade this contract.

Yes I know about the rumor, I also heard the rumor that Gasol wanted to stay if the Bulls want him or go to a contender. The story was that he would consider a short term contract also if it was the right situation.

If they wanted to package them for Amire, Jerebko and AB with a few Picks then it works financially and frees up cap space for the Bulls if they want it to pursue their own FA. Just as an example.
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