Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston

[celticsclay]

Didn't Ricky Davis play alongside KG in Minnesota? Ricky Davis was the Szczerbiak trade right? He would have a year and a half alongside KG. Doesn't KG count as a dominant big man?

29/30 year old KG was certainly better than a 35 year old Pau Gasol.

Well it was a beast mode gasol

[SHAQATTACK]

Say goodbye to Crowder , Nets pick and Rozier

[LarBrd33]

Didn't Ricky Davis play alongside KG in Minnesota? Ricky Davis was the Szczerbiak trade right? He would have a year and a half alongside KG. Doesn't KG count as a dominant big man?

29/30 year old KG was certainly better than a 35 year old Pau Gasol.

Yes.  Post-prime Ricky Davis averaged 17 points, 4.8 assists, 3.9 rebounds, 1 steal with 47%/40%/84% shooting next to Kevin Garnett.  Not surprisingly, KG's prescense caused Davis' efficiency to peak... he had a career high TS% of .566 (higher than Butler this season).  He also had career highs in VORP and WS while playing next to KG. - adding further proof that a star big like KG/Gasol can open things up for a guy like Davis/Butler. 

Unfortunately for KG/Ricky, the 3rd best player on that team was Mark Blount.  The forth best player on that team was Mike James.  Despite this, the tandem won 32 games. 

The question then becomes... If you replaced Blount/Trenton Hassell/Mike James with Derrick Rose, Taj Gibson, Nikola Mirotic, and Doug McDermott,  could they have won 10 more games and finished with 42 wins like Pau and Butler did this year?  Probably not... since Butler is obviously better than post-prime Ricky Davis.   

FWIW, in the 10 or so games that Butler played over the past two seasons with Gasol sidelined, he actually played really well.   Such as this game where he dropped 53 points on the team calling themselves the 76ers:  http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400828474 ... so who knows, maybe Butler actually is capable of taking the leap.  I thought Dame Lillard's efficiency would drop without LaMarcus Aldridge and instead, Lillard took it up another level.   Maybe we should go after Butler at any cost regardless if it leads to additional free agent signings.  I actually do like him as a player.  I liked Davis too.  But I like Bradley, Crowder, Thomas, Smart and the draft pick as well.   

[Celtics4ever]

Say goodbye to Crowder , Nets pick and Rozier

If it gets us Butler and leads to KD, I can live with it.  Draft Brice Johnson at 16 or move up and take Sabonis or the like.  We might be able to sign another guy too, and we keep IT.

If this goes down (and it is likely it does not)  I bet we would trade AB for another big.

[Ilikesports17]

Say goodbye to Crowder , Nets pick and Rozier

If it gets us Butler and leads to KD, I can live with it.  Draft Brice Johnson at 16 or move up and take Sabonis or the like.  We might be able to sign another guy too, and we keep IT.

If this goes down (and it is likely it does not)  I bet we would trade AB for another big.

That deal seems tough for Chicago to turn down. Especially if Jimmy is actually on the block.

[LarBrd33]

Say goodbye to Crowder , Nets pick and Rozier

If it gets us Butler and leads to KD, I can live with it.  Draft Brice Johnson at 16 or move up and take Sabonis or the like.  We might be able to sign another guy too, and we keep IT.

If this goes down (and it is likely it does not)  I bet we would trade AB for another big.

That deal seems tough for Chicago to turn down. Especially if Jimmy is actually on the block.

Any deal happens after the lotto.  I think we're all operating under the assumption the pick doesn't end up #1.  If it ends up #1, I'd cry if they traded it in a package for Jimmy Butler.   So we're assuming it ends up 3-5. 

Just curious.  If you're the Bulls, would you rather have that 3-5 pick in a package... or ALL of the above instead of that pick:   2017 Brooklyn pick swap + 2018 Brooklyn pick + #16 + #23 + #31? 

Obviously still assuming we're including a player or two like Bradley or Crowder.   Just wondering if those 5 picks are enough of a replacement for the Brooklyn pick this year.

[celticsclay]

Didn't Ricky Davis play alongside KG in Minnesota? Ricky Davis was the Szczerbiak trade right? He would have a year and a half alongside KG. Doesn't KG count as a dominant big man?

29/30 year old KG was certainly better than a 35 year old Pau Gasol.

Yes.  Post-prime Ricky Davis averaged 17 points, 4.8 assists, 3.9 rebounds, 1 steal with 47%/40%/84% shooting next to Kevin Garnett.  Not surprisingly, KG's prescense caused Davis' efficiency to peak... he had a career high TS% of .566 (higher than Butler this season).  He also had career highs in VORP and WS while playing next to KG. - adding further proof that a star big like KG/Gasol can open things up for a guy like Davis/Butler. 

Unfortunately for KG/Ricky, the 3rd best player on that team was Mark Blount.  The forth best player on that team was Mike James.  Despite this, the tandem won 32 games. 

The question then becomes... If you replaced Blount/Trenton Hassell/Mike James with Derrick Rose, Taj Gibson, Nikola Mirotic, and Doug McDermott,  could they have won 10 more games and finished with 42 wins like Pau and Butler did this year?  Probably not... since Butler is obviously better than post-prime Ricky Davis.   

FWIW, in the 10 or so games that Butler played over the past two seasons with Gasol sidelined, he actually played really well.   Such as this game where he dropped 53 points on the team calling themselves the 76ers:  http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400828474 ... so who knows, maybe Butler actually is capable of taking the leap.  I thought Dame Lillard's efficiency would drop without LaMarcus Aldridge and instead, Lillard took it up another level.   Maybe we should go after Butler at any cost regardless if it leads to additional free agent signings.  I actually do like him as a player.  I liked Davis too.  But I like Bradley, Crowder, Thomas, Smart and the draft pick as well.   

. Wait so you are now saying pre trade Garnett and 38 year old gasol were similar players? Also rose, mirotic and Gibson are very average players. I would be inclined to say a younger Mike
James was better than rose.

[Ilikesports17]

Say goodbye to Crowder , Nets pick and Rozier

If it gets us Butler and leads to KD, I can live with it.  Draft Brice Johnson at 16 or move up and take Sabonis or the like.  We might be able to sign another guy too, and we keep IT.

If this goes down (and it is likely it does not)  I bet we would trade AB for another big.

That deal seems tough for Chicago to turn down. Especially if Jimmy is actually on the block.

Any deal happens after the lotto.  I think we're all operating under the assumption the pick doesn't end up #1.  If it ends up #1, I'd cry if they traded it in a package for Jimmy Butler.   So we're assuming it ends up 3-5. 

Just curious.  If you're the Bulls, would you rather have that 3-5 pick in a package... or ALL of the above instead of that pick:   2017 Brooklyn pick swap + 2018 Brooklyn pick + #16 + #23 + #31? 

Obviously still assuming we're including a player or two like Bradley or Crowder.   Just wondering if those 5 picks are enough of a replacement for the Brooklyn pick this year.

An interesting thought. My initial reaction is a hard no, based on our troubles to move up last year, I have since kinda been trying to convince myself the whole consolidating picks idea is futile. However when you look at those picks it could be enticing. Brooklyn looks to be a lotto pick in 2017 and Chicago does a really nice job evaluating guys in the back half of the first round so they may be more excited about a few later picks.

I think the value of our 3-5 pick will really really vary from team to team. Bender-Dunn-Murray-Brown-Hield are all flawed guys. Hield and Dunn are old, Bender is a mystery, Brown has few skills but boy is he athletic, and Murray is such a natural pure score I could see teams falling in love with any of them. If Chicago falls in love with one of those guys our picks value skyrockets. If they dont fall in love with anyone I could see them being much more inclined to take the big package.

[LarBrd33]

Say goodbye to Crowder , Nets pick and Rozier

If it gets us Butler and leads to KD, I can live with it.  Draft Brice Johnson at 16 or move up and take Sabonis or the like.  We might be able to sign another guy too, and we keep IT.

If this goes down (and it is likely it does not)  I bet we would trade AB for another big.

That deal seems tough for Chicago to turn down. Especially if Jimmy is actually on the block.

Any deal happens after the lotto.  I think we're all operating under the assumption the pick doesn't end up #1.  If it ends up #1, I'd cry if they traded it in a package for Jimmy Butler.   So we're assuming it ends up 3-5. 

Just curious.  If you're the Bulls, would you rather have that 3-5 pick in a package... or ALL of the above instead of that pick:   2017 Brooklyn pick swap + 2018 Brooklyn pick + #16 + #23 + #31? 

Obviously still assuming we're including a player or two like Bradley or Crowder.   Just wondering if those 5 picks are enough of a replacement for the Brooklyn pick this year.

An interesting thought. My initial reaction is a hard no, based on our troubles to move up last year, I have since kinda been trying to convince myself the whole consolidating picks idea is futile. However when you look at those picks it could be enticing. Brooklyn looks to be a lotto pick in 2017 and Chicago does a really nice job evaluating guys in the back half of the first round so they may be more excited about a few later picks.

I think the value of our 3-5 pick will really really vary from team to team. Bender-Dunn-Murray-Brown-Hield are all flawed guys. Hield and Dunn are old, Bender is a mystery, Brown has few skills but boy is he athletic, and Murray is such a natural pure score I could see teams falling in love with any of them. If Chicago falls in love with one of those guys our picks value skyrockets. If they dont fall in love with anyone I could see them being much more inclined to take the big package.

Fwiw, I was just listening to Scal.  He suggested that getting Butler would get you Durant.  I'm obviously on board with it if that's what it takes to get Durant.  But one thing Scal said was that if the pick falls 1-3, the Bulls would be interested in it.  He seemed to suggest the Bulls wouldn't want the pick if it ends up 4-6. 

[Eddie20]

Say goodbye to Crowder , Nets pick and Rozier

If it gets us Butler and leads to KD, I can live with it.  Draft Brice Johnson at 16 or move up and take Sabonis or the like.  We might be able to sign another guy too, and we keep IT.

If this goes down (and it is likely it does not)  I bet we would trade AB for another big.

That deal seems tough for Chicago to turn down. Especially if Jimmy is actually on the block.

Any deal happens after the lotto.  I think we're all operating under the assumption the pick doesn't end up #1.  If it ends up #1, I'd cry if they traded it in a package for Jimmy Butler.   So we're assuming it ends up 3-5. 

Just curious.  If you're the Bulls, would you rather have that 3-5 pick in a package... or ALL of the above instead of that pick:   2017 Brooklyn pick swap + 2018 Brooklyn pick + #16 + #23 + #31? 

Obviously still assuming we're including a player or two like Bradley or Crowder.   Just wondering if those 5 picks are enough of a replacement for the Brooklyn pick this year.

An interesting thought. My initial reaction is a hard no, based on our troubles to move up last year, I have since kinda been trying to convince myself the whole consolidating picks idea is futile. However when you look at those picks it could be enticing. Brooklyn looks to be a lotto pick in 2017 and Chicago does a really nice job evaluating guys in the back half of the first round so they may be more excited about a few later picks.

I think the value of our 3-5 pick will really really vary from team to team. Bender-Dunn-Murray-Brown-Hield are all flawed guys. Hield and Dunn are old, Bender is a mystery, Brown has few skills but boy is he athletic, and Murray is such a natural pure score I could see teams falling in love with any of them. If Chicago falls in love with one of those guys our picks value skyrockets. If they dont fall in love with anyone I could see them being much more inclined to take the big package.

Fwiw, I was just listening to Scal.  He suggested that getting Butler would get you Durant.  I'm obviously on board with it if that's what it takes to get Durant.  But one thing Scal said was that if the pick falls 1-3, the Bulls would be interested in it.  He seemed to suggest the Bulls wouldn't want the pick if it ends up 4-6.

I think you're reaching with that. He probably just threw out a number considering the C's have the 3rd best odds. If he had said "if the pick falls in the top 2" I would take it more at face value since the consensus is that there is a significant drop off after Simmons and Ingram.

[LarBrd33]

Say goodbye to Crowder , Nets pick and Rozier

If it gets us Butler and leads to KD, I can live with it.  Draft Brice Johnson at 16 or move up and take Sabonis or the like.  We might be able to sign another guy too, and we keep IT.

If this goes down (and it is likely it does not)  I bet we would trade AB for another big.

That deal seems tough for Chicago to turn down. Especially if Jimmy is actually on the block.

Any deal happens after the lotto.  I think we're all operating under the assumption the pick doesn't end up #1.  If it ends up #1, I'd cry if they traded it in a package for Jimmy Butler.   So we're assuming it ends up 3-5. 

Just curious.  If you're the Bulls, would you rather have that 3-5 pick in a package... or ALL of the above instead of that pick:   2017 Brooklyn pick swap + 2018 Brooklyn pick + #16 + #23 + #31? 

Obviously still assuming we're including a player or two like Bradley or Crowder.   Just wondering if those 5 picks are enough of a replacement for the Brooklyn pick this year.

An interesting thought. My initial reaction is a hard no, based on our troubles to move up last year, I have since kinda been trying to convince myself the whole consolidating picks idea is futile. However when you look at those picks it could be enticing. Brooklyn looks to be a lotto pick in 2017 and Chicago does a really nice job evaluating guys in the back half of the first round so they may be more excited about a few later picks.

I think the value of our 3-5 pick will really really vary from team to team. Bender-Dunn-Murray-Brown-Hield are all flawed guys. Hield and Dunn are old, Bender is a mystery, Brown has few skills but boy is he athletic, and Murray is such a natural pure score I could see teams falling in love with any of them. If Chicago falls in love with one of those guys our picks value skyrockets. If they dont fall in love with anyone I could see them being much more inclined to take the big package.

Fwiw, I was just listening to Scal.  He suggested that getting Butler would get you Durant.  I'm obviously on board with it if that's what it takes to get Durant.  But one thing Scal said was that if the pick falls 1-3, the Bulls would be interested in it.  He seemed to suggest the Bulls wouldn't want the pick if it ends up 4-6.

I think you're reaching with that. He probably just threw out a number considering the C's have the 3rd best odds. If he had said "if the pick falls in the top 2" I would take it more at face value since the consensus is that there is a significant drop off after Simmons and Ingram.

watch the vid:  http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/scal-once-you-get-jimmy-butler-you-get-kevin-durant

"Now it all comes down to where the ping pong balls drop.  If they drop and we are 1, 2 or 3, that is a valuable asset.  Now, if it's 4, 5 or 6, obviously you lose value.  Here's the name - if it's 1, 2 or 3, Chicago trades Jimmy Butler.  They want to sell the idea they can rebuild and they can rebuild with a top 3 pick.  We'll take Jimmy Butler on that contract - 20 somethin million, but you're getting an all-star.  So how does that work... once you get Jimmy Butler then you get who? - KEVIN DURANT (group laughs)"

Am I reachin, Ed?  Scal seems to explicitly say that it would need to be a top 3 pick.  Judging by what someone else just said on this forum - that the Lakers are prepared to offer a top 3 pick and Clarkson for Butler, it makes some sense.   The price will be high.

[Eddie20]

Say goodbye to Crowder , Nets pick and Rozier

If it gets us Butler and leads to KD, I can live with it.  Draft Brice Johnson at 16 or move up and take Sabonis or the like.  We might be able to sign another guy too, and we keep IT.

If this goes down (and it is likely it does not)  I bet we would trade AB for another big.

That deal seems tough for Chicago to turn down. Especially if Jimmy is actually on the block.

Any deal happens after the lotto.  I think we're all operating under the assumption the pick doesn't end up #1.  If it ends up #1, I'd cry if they traded it in a package for Jimmy Butler.   So we're assuming it ends up 3-5. 

Just curious.  If you're the Bulls, would you rather have that 3-5 pick in a package... or ALL of the above instead of that pick:   2017 Brooklyn pick swap + 2018 Brooklyn pick + #16 + #23 + #31? 

Obviously still assuming we're including a player or two like Bradley or Crowder.   Just wondering if those 5 picks are enough of a replacement for the Brooklyn pick this year.

An interesting thought. My initial reaction is a hard no, based on our troubles to move up last year, I have since kinda been trying to convince myself the whole consolidating picks idea is futile. However when you look at those picks it could be enticing. Brooklyn looks to be a lotto pick in 2017 and Chicago does a really nice job evaluating guys in the back half of the first round so they may be more excited about a few later picks.

I think the value of our 3-5 pick will really really vary from team to team. Bender-Dunn-Murray-Brown-Hield are all flawed guys. Hield and Dunn are old, Bender is a mystery, Brown has few skills but boy is he athletic, and Murray is such a natural pure score I could see teams falling in love with any of them. If Chicago falls in love with one of those guys our picks value skyrockets. If they dont fall in love with anyone I could see them being much more inclined to take the big package.

Fwiw, I was just listening to Scal.  He suggested that getting Butler would get you Durant.  I'm obviously on board with it if that's what it takes to get Durant.  But one thing Scal said was that if the pick falls 1-3, the Bulls would be interested in it.  He seemed to suggest the Bulls wouldn't want the pick if it ends up 4-6.

I think you're reaching with that. He probably just threw out a number considering the C's have the 3rd best odds. If he had said "if the pick falls in the top 2" I would take it more at face value since the consensus is that there is a significant drop off after Simmons and Ingram.

watch the vid:  http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/scal-once-you-get-jimmy-butler-you-get-kevin-durant

"Now it all comes down to where the ping pong balls drop.  If they drop and we are 1, 2 or 3, that is a valuable asset.  Now, if it's 4, 5 or 6, obviously you lose value.  Here's the name - if it's 1, 2 or 3, Chicago trades Jimmy Butler.  They want to sell the idea they can rebuild and they can rebuild with a top 3 pick.  We'll take Jimmy Butler on that contract - 20 somethin million, but you're getting an all-star.  So how does that work... once you get Jimmy Butler then you get who? - KEVIN DURANT (group laughs)"

Am I reachin, Ed?  Scal seems to explicitly say that it would need to be a top 3 pick.  Judging by what someone else just said on this forum - that the Lakers are prepared to offer a top 3 pick and Clarkson for Butler, it makes some sense.   The price will be high.

Yeah, it does sound like he just threw out a number because he didn't specifically say the player. Who is the consensus 3rd pick? Is it Bender? Is it Murray? Is it Dunn? Is it Hield? The point is that there is no way to determine who the Bulls covet the 3rd most and where that player will go. For example, if the Suns have the 3rd pick it's highly doubtful they take a guard with Booker, Bledsoe, and Knight already in the fold, so that means Bender will fall past them. Maybe that's who the Bulls covet, maybe it's not.

[Celtics4ever]

I think it will be Heild, especially if they trade their existing SG

[greece66]

Say goodbye to Crowder , Nets pick and Rozier

If it gets us Butler and leads to KD, I can live with it.  Draft Brice Johnson at 16 or move up and take Sabonis or the like.  We might be able to sign another guy too, and we keep IT.

If this goes down (and it is likely it does not)  I bet we would trade AB for another big.

That deal seems tough for Chicago to turn down. Especially if Jimmy is actually on the block.

Any deal happens after the lotto.  I think we're all operating under the assumption the pick doesn't end up #1.  If it ends up #1, I'd cry if they traded it in a package for Jimmy Butler.   So we're assuming it ends up 3-5. 

Just curious.  If you're the Bulls, would you rather have that 3-5 pick in a package... or ALL of the above instead of that pick:   2017 Brooklyn pick swap + 2018 Brooklyn pick + #16 + #23 + #31? 

Obviously still assuming we're including a player or two like Bradley or Crowder.   Just wondering if those 5 picks are enough of a replacement for the Brooklyn pick this year.

An interesting thought. My initial reaction is a hard no, based on our troubles to move up last year, I have since kinda been trying to convince myself the whole consolidating picks idea is futile. However when you look at those picks it could be enticing. Brooklyn looks to be a lotto pick in 2017 and Chicago does a really nice job evaluating guys in the back half of the first round so they may be more excited about a few later picks.

I think the value of our 3-5 pick will really really vary from team to team. Bender-Dunn-Murray-Brown-Hield are all flawed guys. Hield and Dunn are old, Bender is a mystery, Brown has few skills but boy is he athletic, and Murray is such a natural pure score I could see teams falling in love with any of them. If Chicago falls in love with one of those guys our picks value skyrockets. If they dont fall in love with anyone I could see them being much more inclined to take the big package.

Fwiw, I was just listening to Scal.  He suggested that getting Butler would get you Durant.  I'm obviously on board with it if that's what it takes to get Durant.  But one thing Scal said was that if the pick falls 1-3, the Bulls would be interested in it.  He seemed to suggest the Bulls wouldn't want the pick if it ends up 4-6.

I think you're reaching with that. He probably just threw out a number considering the C's have the 3rd best odds. If he had said "if the pick falls in the top 2" I would take it more at face value since the consensus is that there is a significant drop off after Simmons and Ingram.

watch the vid:  http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/scal-once-you-get-jimmy-butler-you-get-kevin-durant

"Now it all comes down to where the ping pong balls drop.  If they drop and we are 1, 2 or 3, that is a valuable asset.  Now, if it's 4, 5 or 6, obviously you lose value.  Here's the name - if it's 1, 2 or 3, Chicago trades Jimmy Butler.  They want to sell the idea they can rebuild and they can rebuild with a top 3 pick.  We'll take Jimmy Butler on that contract - 20 somethin million, but you're getting an all-star.  So how does that work... once you get Jimmy Butler then you get who? - KEVIN DURANT (group laughs)"

Am I reachin, Ed?  Scal seems to explicitly say that it would need to be a top 3 pick.  Judging by what someone else just said on this forum - that the Lakers are prepared to offer a top 3 pick and Clarkson for Butler, it makes some sense.   The price will be high.

Thx for the quote LarBrd.

Personally, I do not put much faith into what Scal says. He probably knows as much about trades as the average poster here. And if he knew more, I doubt he would share it on TV.

One thing to notice: why is he putting together picks 1,2 and 3? They have different values, esp. in a draft where the two top players are the most sought after.

The other thing, I am not sure where the Durant would love to play with Butler thing is coming from? If anyone has a source on this pls share.

Back to the substance of the comment: it sure looks like the price will be high for Butler. He is a versatile 2-3 player that would fit in many rosters, he is 26 yo, he had a couple of great seasons, still has three seasons in his contract, and the contract is good value for money with the new salary cap.

[Moranis]

Scal has a national radio show on the NBA channel on Sirius XM.  I'm not suggesting that means his opinion is worth much, only that he obviously stays connected with the NBA and that plus his playing days probably gives him contacts that many people wouldn't have.