Author Topic: Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston  (Read 33093 times)

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Re: Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston
« Reply #195 on: April 29, 2016, 08:41:19 PM »

Offline byennie

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You saw a similar jump in efficiency when Paul Pierce went from playing next to Antoine Walker to playing next to Kevin Garnett.   You saw a similar impact when Kobe Bryant went from leading a borderline playoff team/lotto squad (like the 34 win lotto squad in 2005 that he shot 43% FG and 34% from three on) to suddenly seeing his efficiency peak out at 46%/36% on a 57-65 win back-to-back-to-back Finals team riding on the Pau Gasol's coattails. 

For all we know, Ricky Davis would have made the All-NBA team on the shoulders of Beast Mode Gasol.

So what? Ricky Davis played 10+ years in the league and not once did he ever become efficient, play defense, or measure all that well by advanced stats (and I mean ANY of them). Maybe it was bad luck playing on lousy teams, but all of the evidence from 750+ NBA games points to him being a certain type of player. You can't just dismiss advanced stats because they have limitations. We use the best data available and when it all paints the same picture, we tend to trust it. Things like TS%, win shares, ORtg, DRtg, +/-, VORP all have their flaws, but it's absolutely false that they are highly dependent on one or two teammates. Playing with or without Pau Gasol doesn't invalidate them.

Are there any mitigating factors comparing two players like this? Sure. Maybe Joe Forte could have been a good player with a different coach, or Mark Blount could have been a perennial All-Star if he played with Kevin Garnett. But you can always invent unprovable hypotheticals.

Like others have said, your reservations about just how to value Butler are totally valid. The Davis comp is garbage though, and keep getting conveniently intertwined and doubled-down on.

Re: Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston
« Reply #196 on: April 29, 2016, 08:53:53 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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You saw a similar jump in efficiency when Paul Pierce went from playing next to Antoine Walker to playing next to Kevin Garnett.   You saw a similar impact when Kobe Bryant went from leading a borderline playoff team/lotto squad (like the 34 win lotto squad in 2005 that he shot 43% FG and 34% from three on) to suddenly seeing his efficiency peak out at 46%/36% on a 57-65 win back-to-back-to-back Finals team riding on the Pau Gasol's coattails. 

For all we know, Ricky Davis would have made the All-NBA team on the shoulders of Beast Mode Gasol.

So what? Ricky Davis played 10+ years in the league and not once did he ever become efficient, play defense, or measure all that well by advanced stats (and I mean ANY of them). Maybe it was bad luck playing on lousy teams, but all of the evidence from 750+ NBA games points to him being a certain type of player. You can't just dismiss advanced stats because they have limitations. We use the best data available and when it all paints the same picture, we tend to trust it. Things like TS%, win shares, ORtg, DRtg, +/-, VORP all have their flaws, but it's absolutely false that they are highly dependent on one or two teammates. Playing with or without Pau Gasol doesn't invalidate them.

Are there any mitigating factors comparing two players like this? Sure. Maybe Joe Forte could have been a good player with a different coach, or Mark Blount could have been a perennial All-Star if he played with Kevin Garnett. But you can always invent unprovable hypotheticals.

Like others have said, your reservations about just how to value Butler are totally valid. The Davis comp is garbage though, and keep getting conveniently intertwined and doubled-down on.

Yes, because advanced stats are taken out of context.   Thomas had a significantly higher WS this season than he did playing on the Kings despite the fact he's the same player and actually had the same raw stats.  Avery Bradley had a WS of 4.8 this season with a VORP of 1.4 ... He had arguably worse stats than he did in 2013-14 when he had a WS of 1.8 and a  VORP of -0.2

Most people quoting advanced stats don't actually understand them.   Davis had game.  He was a bit of a headcase and didn't find the right situation.  We haven't seen Butler in the wrong situation yet.  We haven't seen Butler succeed without a hall of fame big man on his team.  Despite this,  I've consistently said Ricky Davis wasn't as good as Butler, but calling Butler a premium-brand Davis is money.

Re: Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston
« Reply #197 on: April 30, 2016, 04:51:53 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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You can't claim Butler is a superstar above criticism while at the same time arguing his price should be cheap. 


WHO IS CLAIMING THAT?

Mike

To get back to seriousness. I do think Butler can be a superstar.

...

Maybe they really do pick Hoiberg over Butler...

Yeah it totally makes sense to choose a coach over a budding superstar.

You neatly edited out the rest of my post where I said it was possible because their front office is so incredibly dysfunctional. If you don't get how the front office is dysfunctional and has made a ton of stupid moves in the last decade I don't really know where to start.

Also dude, editing my quotes around from a post to remove the meaning is pretty crappy. It is one thing to misunderstand what someone was says, but intentionally manipulating their posts to make them say something else is kind of crappy, even for you.
i didn't edit your post.  I highlighted the only relevant bits. That you think butler can be a superstar and you think the Bulls might pick a coach over him.   Dysfunctional or not, that's a comical premise.

Butler likely isn't going to be a superstar.  If you believe the Bulls will trade him for picks, it must mean the Bulls don't think he will be a superstar either.

He's still a nice player who could help.  I'd be fine with adding him at the right price.

Just like if anyone believes the Kings will trade DMC for picks, it must mean Sacramento doesn't think he is good enough to build a team around.
cousins hasn't been traded for picks. There's been no sign they are open to trading him for picks.  There are no rumors that he will be traded for picks.  And it's believed that cousins has considerable baggage.  As far as I know, butler doesn't have any major baggage and isn't demanding a trade - so it would be interesting if the Bulls dumped him.  But of course, butler is merely a borderline star - it's totally plausible he'd he traded.  They will ask for a lot despite this.   I'm not sure the price will make sense for us.

Butler is a bordeline star?

Are you honestly serious?  You talk about Jahlil Okafor like he's the second coming of god, and you refer to Jimmy Butler as a 'borderline star'??? 

Come on man - I generally respect the comments you make, but this is simply insane. 

Butler is a 21 / 5 / 5 guy and an elite defender.  He his game has no real glaring weaknesses, and his personality is a coach's dream.  He is arguably the best shooting guard in the entire NBA, and at 26 years of age he still has potential to get better.

I must admit, I am completely bewildered as to how you could refer to Butler as a 'borderline star'.
When did I talk about Okafor as the second coming of God?  Lol.   If you hate Okafor, take that up with Danny ainge - who per several reports came close to landing Okafor at the deadline for a package built around the pick.  Presumably butler had cost and will cost significantly more than that.  It sounds like we made inquires and the price was too high.

And yeah, butler is a borderline star.  He's maybe a notch above Thomas.  Take those two guys and pair them with a big man DPOY candidate like Noah in his prime and you'll probably make the second round.

Here's the thing with butler -  at minimum he's costing you all our picks, right?  Do you think he'd also cost crowder or Bradley ?

Someone made the comment earlier that butler can become a superstar.  Eh. I doubt it.  Someone made the comment that if you add butler without impacting our core, the team would threaten for the finals.  I don't buy it, but let's talk about it.

Let's pretend that the Bulls are so convinced in Butler's inability to be a franchise player that they actually decide to trade butler for our picks.  Add butler to our starting lineup. Whose minutes is he taking?  Who gets the short straw on minutes now?  Does he start next to crowder and Thomas with Bradley on the bench taking smarts minutes ?   Is he starting over Crowder?   Are we just replacing turners minutes ?   Someone is getting minutes eaten.  It will be an upgrade for sure, but if we are talking about just swapping out crowder or Bradley for butler is it really going to be a big enough upgrade to take this mediocre team to a championship?  Nah.   So if we are paying big time prices to bring in butler we better be certain of our free agency potential.  We'd need to have follow up moves to make it worthwhile.  Crowder and Bradley are solid players as is.  According to several people here, Bradley is a top 2 defensive guard.  His scoring efficiency was actually better than butler this year.  Say Bradley is 70% the player butler is.  Say he's 60%... Whatever.  If Bradley needs to be included in the deal, don't you need to factor that into the equation ?  Would you give up all our picks just to upgrade Bradley and still fall short of having a franchise player ?   

Hence why I say I'm not comfortable going all-in for butler unless is guarantees us Durant.  Id prefer the alternative of using the pick to take another big time prospect, keeping Bradley and crowder, and hoping a better option presents itself.

The Okafor comment was obviously an exaggeration, but you constantly make comments exaggerating Okafor's talent and suggesting that he is going to be a surefire future star, even though he a very one dimensional game that is filled with planet-sized flaws.

But then when it comes to Butler, you refer to him as a 'borderline star'.

There is absolutely no debate about whether Butler is a star.  He is very clearly a star, and there is absolutely no evidence to back an argument that says anything different.

He's an excellent scorer (20.9 PPG and 1.36 Points Per FGA).  He's an outstanding rebounder (5.3 per game) and playmaker (4.8 APG / 2.4 Ast Per TO) for a shooting guard.  He's a two time all-defensive team selection.  He's a two time all-star.  He is extremely disciplined (low turnover and foul rates) and plays with grit and with 100% effort every night, so he has all the intangibles you could want in a player.

Butler is about as close as it gets to being to being the 'perfect' shooting guard in that his game is pretty much completely void of any major flaws, and he does just about everything at a high level.  You could make a very strong argument that he is the best SG in the NBA. 

If there is any criticism of Butler it's that he doesn't put up out of this world scoring numbers (e.g. 25 PPG) but if he did he would be a superstar, not a star.  If you want to argue whether he is a superstar, then that's fine.  But a Star?  That is undeniable. 

Hell there are still people here who try to argue that Horford, Hayward, Love and Milsap are stars in their current career state.  Butler is (at least) one whole level above those guys.

Is he as good as Durant, Lebron, Curry, Davis, etc?  Of course not.  Those guys are franchise players and are perennial superstars.

Butler isn't on that level, but he's one step down from those guys, he's only 26 years old, and he's improved every single year he's been in the league.  He is a young two-way star who still has his best years ahead of him.

I actually think I'd take Butler over Paul George.  It would be a difficult decision, but I think when push comes to shove I'd take Butler.  I think George has more talent and that they are on par overall as players, but take Butler because of his intangibles if put on the spot to choose.

Re: Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston
« Reply #198 on: April 30, 2016, 06:12:41 AM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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How concerned are people about Ricky Davis 2.0's 3-point shooting? I know that was an issue early in his career and he'd seemed to improve that part of his game last year (.378 in '14-'15) but he dropped back to a below average 3-point shooter this past season (.311).

Maybe it was that ugly shooting last night or maybe it was the poor 3-point shooting all season, but I don't see how he helps us in this area at all.
Spacing can impact shooting.  How much of an impact did it make for the guards when they added a beast-mode Pau Gasol down low?   Like I said in a previous post, Paul Pierce went from shooting 40%/29% in the down year without much surrounding talent in 2004 to 49%/38% alongside Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen.   Some of Butler's surrounding talent regressed this year... hence them missing the playoffs and his percentages dropping back down again. 

He's still a good player.  I'm not saying he's not a good player.  If butler was a free agent like Derozan, I could see going hard after Butler.  But Butler is a trade-candidate and he's going to come at a considerable price if you want to add him.  Luckily most people here seem SuUUuuuper confident in Butler's abilities, so I guess they wouldn't mind seeing a crazy offer of Bradley + Crowder + all the picks for Butler.  I personally only do such a trade if he acts as the Ray Allen that leads to the KG/Durant aftermath.  If Durant wants Butler, go get Butler at any cost.  If we come out on top in the big picture, maybe it's a price worth paying.  In a bubble, I HATED adding 32 year old injury-prone Ray Allen for a package built around the #5 pick.  In the context of it being the key to KG waiving his no-trade clause (which he previously was unwilling to do when Boston tried acquiring him), it worked out really well.


I'm not totally convinced Jimmy Jeeves is a good 3-point shooter and we kind of need a great one. Could be due to spacing and carrying the load on offense and it's just one knock on his game but 3-point shooting is a huuuuge need for us.

Pierce had 2 seasons of hovering around a .300 3-pt% but was a good-great shooter before and after that and shooting was never really a question mark in his game.
It really does not matter because DA is gonna make the Cousins trade happen...either with just 1 pick or more(if the pick is 3 and after). Then we can actually sell Durant on a championship right away if he signs with Boston.

We really should be ok to get Cousins even if we get the 3-4th pick and we give Nets 2017. I'd rather get the rarest commodity in the league than an upgrade at the 2, especially since he isn't knocking down a ton of 3's.

If we get the top pick and trade it for Cousins and then sign Durant, we could also look to sign a very good 3pt shooter that had an underwhelming season/s and may be on the cheap. Evan Fournier and Eric Gordon come to mind, though I like Fournier better because he is only 23 and has room to become more consistent.

Re: Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston
« Reply #199 on: April 30, 2016, 08:23:10 AM »

Offline byennie

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Yes, because advanced stats are taken out of context.   Thomas had a significantly higher WS this season than he did playing on the Kings despite the fact he's the same player and actually had the same raw stats.  Avery Bradley had a WS of 4.8 this season with a VORP of 1.4 ... He had arguably worse stats than he did in 2013-14 when he had a WS of 1.8 and a  VORP of -0.2

Most people quoting advanced stats don't actually understand them.   Davis had game.  He was a bit of a headcase and didn't find the right situation.  We haven't seen Butler in the wrong situation yet.  We haven't seen Butler succeed without a hall of fame big man on his team.  Despite this,  I've consistently said Ricky Davis wasn't as good as Butler, but calling Butler a premium-brand Davis is money.

They can be, of course. But you're acting like thousands of games of evidence mean nothing because context overrules all.

IT doesn't support your case at all:
2013-14 (SAC): 7.7 win shares, 3.1 VORP, 20.5 PER, 57 TS% in 72 games
2015-16 (BOS): 9.7 win shares, 3.3 VORP, 21.5 PER, 56 TS% in 82 games

Same assist rate, same rebounding rate... practically identical player on two very different teams.

Bradley? He played 10% more minutes this year, raised his TS% from 51 to 54, reduced his turnover rate, and graded much better defensively. All of which completely supports the higher VORP / WS. He played more, shot better, turned it over less, and played more defense.

Of course we'll never be able to settle the meaning of vague adjectives like "premium brand". You did make the argument that the two players are very similar, whether or not you had other reasonable points about overpaying for Butler.

Re: Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston
« Reply #200 on: April 30, 2016, 10:12:26 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Isn't it nice to see me "hating" on someone who doesn't play for the team?  It's kind of refreshing, isn't it?

Does anyone need any more evidence that LarBrd33 is a childish troll?  The only value he has now is in demonstrating a problematic social dynamic in human relationships.

If some brand new poster came on here and acted as arrogant and dismissive and insulting, while simultaneously making such weak and immature arguments, he'd get 10 times the grief that LarBrd33 does.  But because he's an established member of this community, a lot of people cut him a lot of slack.

Giving him that slack, however, merely encourages worse and worse behavior, which makes his presence more and more unpleasant.  His claims become increasingly inane.  His sophistry ever more transparent.  His attitude growingly juvenile.  His very existence becoming destructive.

Ultimately, all you can really do is ignore him.  You can't have a useful debate with him, as proven by this thread.  He thinks speculating about what an alternate universe Ricky Davis would be like is an intelligent point when all he's doing is slappin' his salami.  But it's frustrating to have to alter your behavior because no one will do anything about his.

In the last 8 years or so, the Celtics have had only one really bad season.  What if we went through one of those common stretches in the NBA where a team only wins 20 or 30 games for several seasons?  What is we missed the playoffs for three or four years in a row?  If LarBrd33 was still here, acting the way he acts, how many of us would give up and stop spending time here to avoid the aggravation?

Mike

Re: Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston
« Reply #201 on: April 30, 2016, 10:27:27 AM »

Offline GetLucky

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Isn't it nice to see me "hating" on someone who doesn't play for the team?  It's kind of refreshing, isn't it?

Does anyone need any more evidence that LarBrd33 is a childish troll?  The only value he has now is in demonstrating a problematic social dynamic in human relationships.

If some brand new poster came on here and acted as arrogant and dismissive and insulting, while simultaneously making such weak and immature arguments, he'd get 10 times the grief that LarBrd33 does.  But because he's an established member of this community, a lot of people cut him a lot of slack.

Giving him that slack, however, merely encourages worse and worse behavior, which makes his presence more and more unpleasant.  His claims become increasingly inane.  His sophistry ever more transparent.  His attitude growingly juvenile.  His very existence becoming destructive.

Ultimately, all you can really do is ignore him.  You can't have a useful debate with him, as proven by this thread.  He thinks speculating about what an alternate universe Ricky Davis would be like is an intelligent point when all he's doing is slappin' his salami.  But it's frustrating to have to alter your behavior because no one will do anything about his.

In the last 8 years or so, the Celtics have had only one really bad season.  What if we went through one of those common stretches in the NBA where a team only wins 20 or 30 games for several seasons?  What is we missed the playoffs for three or four years in a row?  If LarBrd33 was still here, acting the way he acts, how many of us would give up and stop spending time here to avoid the aggravation?

Mike

Mike, this is a little over the top. If you don't like LarBrd's conjecture or analysis, that's fine; just follow your own advice and ignore it. However, attacking him as someone whose "very existence [is] becoming destructive" and is "growingly juvenile" is something that is both inappropriate for a forum and probably won't do much, either. LarBrd certainly has some divisive opinions, but he also has some in-depth analysis on a regular basis, some of which you may enjoy and some of which you may not. It's not like he is saying, "JIMMY BUTLER = RICKY DAVIS BECUZ EYE TEST!" like some other (yes, established) people do with other players. LarBrd has some statistical evidence (that we happen to not agree with) to back his point up.

Also, I apologize in advance for maybe coming across as condescending in a forum post. I certainly do not want the tone of this to come across as "higher than thou," especially as a relatively unestablished poster. But the last time something like this happened, we lost a great contributor (Dos) either to indefinite suspension or suspension and bitterness. I don't want to see the same happen to you.

Re: Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston
« Reply #202 on: April 30, 2016, 01:34:26 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Isn't it nice to see me "hating" on someone who doesn't play for the team?  It's kind of refreshing, isn't it?

Does anyone need any more evidence that LarBrd33 is a childish troll?  The only value he has now is in demonstrating a problematic social dynamic in human relationships.

If some brand new poster came on here and acted as arrogant and dismissive and insulting, while simultaneously making such weak and immature arguments, he'd get 10 times the grief that LarBrd33 does.  But because he's an established member of this community, a lot of people cut him a lot of slack.

Giving him that slack, however, merely encourages worse and worse behavior, which makes his presence more and more unpleasant.  His claims become increasingly inane.  His sophistry ever more transparent.  His attitude growingly juvenile.  His very existence becoming destructive.

Ultimately, all you can really do is ignore him.  You can't have a useful debate with him, as proven by this thread.  He thinks speculating about what an alternate universe Ricky Davis would be like is an intelligent point when all he's doing is slappin' his salami.  But it's frustrating to have to alter your behavior because no one will do anything about his.

In the last 8 years or so, the Celtics have had only one really bad season.  What if we went through one of those common stretches in the NBA where a team only wins 20 or 30 games for several seasons?  What is we missed the playoffs for three or four years in a row?  If LarBrd33 was still here, acting the way he acts, how many of us would give up and stop spending time here to avoid the aggravation?

Mike

Mike, this is a little over the top. If you don't like LarBrd's conjecture or analysis, that's fine; just follow your own advice and ignore it. However, attacking him as someone whose "very existence [is] becoming destructive" and is "growingly juvenile" is something that is both inappropriate for a forum and probably won't do much, either. LarBrd certainly has some divisive opinions, but he also has some in-depth analysis on a regular basis, some of which you may enjoy and some of which you may not. It's not like he is saying, "JIMMY BUTLER = RICKY DAVIS BECUZ EYE TEST!" like some other (yes, established) people do with other players. LarBrd has some statistical evidence (that we happen to not agree with) to back his point up.

Also, I apologize in advance for maybe coming across as condescending in a forum post. I certainly do not want the tone of this to come across as "higher than thou," especially as a relatively unestablished poster. But the last time something like this happened, we lost a great contributor (Dos) either to indefinite suspension or suspension and bitterness. I don't want to see the same happen to you.

What happened to Dos? I just noticed he completely stopped posting. With respect to this it is not always easy to ignore someone if they are constantly arguing with 4-5 posters. I can't really think of another posting that has long standing feuds and constantly derails threads. If Mike doesn't respond to him someone else will and it never ends. This thread is a pretty good example of a detailed thread. It started as an actual story of butler possibly joining the Celtics. It has become 8 pages of comparing butler to a better alternate universe version of Rickey Davis and how beast mode gasol helped butler. Can everyone agree that is ridiculous?

Re: Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston
« Reply #203 on: April 30, 2016, 02:29:17 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Does anyone need any more evidence that LarBrd33 is a childish troll?  The only value he has now is in demonstrating a problematic social dynamic in human relationships.

Can we get you a tissue?
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston
« Reply #204 on: April 30, 2016, 02:49:15 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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This thread has spiraled out of control and should be locked.

Re: Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston
« Reply #205 on: April 30, 2016, 03:36:55 PM »

Offline jambr380

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WTH! LarBrd has consistently said that Butler is a better version of Ricky Davis. If you don't agree and think he is all-world while Davis is trash, then make your point and move on. Why do people get so upset at what he says - is it because he really is a smart guy who puts forth quite a bit of effort on this board and we expect more from him than the dummy that creates a RJ and Zeller for Cousins thread?

It's really strange. We aren't always going to agree and LarBrd maybe a bit of an instigator, but why get all worked up over somebody else's (supposed) opinion?

Re: Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston
« Reply #206 on: April 30, 2016, 03:40:16 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Fwiw, I think Ricky was underrated.  Quality player.  Dude had game.  Maybe he would have flourished next to gasol. Who knows. 

I don't know why people take this stuff so seriously.  It's a thread about trading for butler. I'm on the fence about it.  What's the appropriate reaction? 

Re: Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston
« Reply #207 on: April 30, 2016, 03:54:43 PM »

Offline biggs

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Remember when Ricky through the ball to him self off the backboard to get a rebound for the triple double?

God I loved him ;D

This is the Ricky Davis thread, right?
Truuuuuuuuuth!

Re: Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston
« Reply #208 on: April 30, 2016, 03:55:02 PM »

Online Who

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Didn't Ricky Davis play alongside KG in Minnesota? Ricky Davis was the Szczerbiak trade right? He would have a year and a half alongside KG. Doesn't KG count as a dominant big man?

29/30 year old KG was certainly better than a 35 year old Pau Gasol.

Re: Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston
« Reply #209 on: April 30, 2016, 03:58:32 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Isn't it nice to see me "hating" on someone who doesn't play for the team?  It's kind of refreshing, isn't it?

Does anyone need any more evidence that LarBrd33 is a childish troll?  The only value he has now is in demonstrating a problematic social dynamic in human relationships.

If some brand new poster came on here and acted as arrogant and dismissive and insulting, while simultaneously making such weak and immature arguments, he'd get 10 times the grief that LarBrd33 does.  But because he's an established member of this community, a lot of people cut him a lot of slack.

Giving him that slack, however, merely encourages worse and worse behavior, which makes his presence more and more unpleasant.  His claims become increasingly inane.  His sophistry ever more transparent.  His attitude growingly juvenile.  His very existence becoming destructive.

Ultimately, all you can really do is ignore him.  You can't have a useful debate with him, as proven by this thread.  He thinks speculating about what an alternate universe Ricky Davis would be like is an intelligent point when all he's doing is slappin' his salami.  But it's frustrating to have to alter your behavior because no one will do anything about his.

In the last 8 years or so, the Celtics have had only one really bad season.  What if we went through one of those common stretches in the NBA where a team only wins 20 or 30 games for several seasons?  What is we missed the playoffs for three or four years in a row?  If LarBrd33 was still here, acting the way he acts, how many of us would give up and stop spending time here to avoid the aggravation?

Mike
Lol mike. If the Celtics went through multiple tank seasons, your bigger concern is my presence on this board ?

Mike, you repeatedly insult me on this forum. If you feel like I ignore your comments, you're probably right.  I genuinely try to avoid getting into a discussion with you.

As for your "evidence", that quote was obviously just me playing with the constant criticism that I "hate" everyone on the Celtics and "overrate" everyone on other teams (which has never actually been true but it doesn't stop folks from saying it).   Now here we are in a thread where I'm criticizing Jimmy butler in favor of keeping our guys and I'm still getting flack for it.  Is it fine to have some levity and make a joke about t?

Crimson, you bring up some points above how you see jimmy butler as being better than Paul George.  A true two-way star.  I suppose you think he's the type of player you can build an offense around.  I suppose you are supportive of the thread that was just started where they float the idea is trading Isaiah Thomas and the Brooklyn pick for butler.  Fine.  If that's your opinion, that's your opinion.

In my opinion, all of the above leads me to believe jimmy butler is extremely overrated right now.  I wouldn't overpay for him unless it guaranteed us Durant.   And all those Raw stats you listed (his points, assists, rebounds, steals, shooting percentages, size, athleticism) were basically identical to prime Ricky Davis.   Look for yourself:  http://i.imgur.com/eJCaKiY.jpg




Obviously, Davis never made an allstar team, never played on a solid playoff team next to a hall of fame big man, and never made the all defensive team.   Obviously, Ricky never played on a team that could inflate his advanced stats.   Nobody, myself included, is saying Davis was as good as Jimmy butler.  But here's hoping Danny Ainge brings up their nearly identical stats when the Bulls come calling with their asking price of the Brooklyn pick + crowder/Thomas/Bradley/smart.  After the two teams laugh it off, maybe they come to a reasonable compromise and we have a reason to root for butler.

« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 04:34:02 PM by LarBrd33 »