You can't claim Butler is a superstar above criticism while at the same time arguing his price should be cheap.
WHO IS CLAIMING THAT?
Mike
To get back to seriousness. I do think Butler can be a superstar.
...
Maybe they really do pick Hoiberg over Butler...
Yeah it totally makes sense to choose a coach over a budding superstar.
You neatly edited out the rest of my post where I said it was possible because their front office is so incredibly dysfunctional. If you don't get how the front office is dysfunctional and has made a ton of stupid moves in the last decade I don't really know where to start.
Also dude, editing my quotes around from a post to remove the meaning is pretty crappy. It is one thing to misunderstand what someone was says, but intentionally manipulating their posts to make them say something else is kind of crappy, even for you.
i didn't edit your post. I highlighted the only relevant bits. That you think butler can be a superstar and you think the Bulls might pick a coach over him. Dysfunctional or not, that's a comical premise.
Butler likely isn't going to be a superstar. If you believe the Bulls will trade him for picks, it must mean the Bulls don't think he will be a superstar either.
He's still a nice player who could help. I'd be fine with adding him at the right price.
Just like if anyone believes the Kings will trade DMC for picks, it must mean Sacramento doesn't think he is good enough to build a team around.
cousins hasn't been traded for picks. There's been no sign they are open to trading him for picks. There are no rumors that he will be traded for picks. And it's believed that cousins has considerable baggage. As far as I know, butler doesn't have any major baggage and isn't demanding a trade - so it would be interesting if the Bulls dumped him. But of course, butler is merely a borderline star - it's totally plausible he'd he traded. They will ask for a lot despite this. I'm not sure the price will make sense for us.
Butler is a bordeline star?
Are you honestly serious? You talk about Jahlil Okafor like he's the second coming of god, and you refer to Jimmy Butler as a 'borderline star'
Come on man - I generally respect the comments you make, but this is simply insane.
Butler is a 21 / 5 / 5 guy and an elite defender. He his game has no real glaring weaknesses, and his personality is a coach's dream. He is arguably the best shooting guard in the entire NBA, and at 26 years of age he still has potential to get better.
I must admit, I am completely bewildered as to how you could refer to Butler as a 'borderline star'.
When did I talk about Okafor as the second coming of God? Lol. If you hate Okafor, take that up with Danny ainge - who per several reports came close to landing Okafor at the deadline for a package built around the pick. Presumably butler had cost and will cost significantly more than that. It sounds like we made inquires and the price was too high.
And yeah, butler is a borderline star. He's maybe a notch above Thomas. Take those two guys and pair them with a big man DPOY candidate like Noah in his prime and you'll probably make the second round.
Here's the thing with butler - at minimum he's costing you all our picks, right? Do you think he'd also cost crowder or Bradley ?
Someone made the comment earlier that butler can become a superstar. Eh. I doubt it. Someone made the comment that if you add butler without impacting our core, the team would threaten for the finals. I don't buy it, but let's talk about it.
Let's pretend that the Bulls are so convinced in Butler's inability to be a franchise player that they actually decide to trade butler for our picks. Add butler to our starting lineup. Whose minutes is he taking? Who gets the short straw on minutes now? Does he start next to crowder and Thomas with Bradley on the bench taking smarts minutes ? Is he starting over Crowder? Are we just replacing turners minutes ? Someone is getting minutes eaten. It will be an upgrade for sure, but if we are talking about just swapping out crowder or Bradley for butler is it really going to be a big enough upgrade to take this mediocre team to a championship? Nah. So if we are paying big time prices to bring in butler we better be certain of our free agency potential. We'd need to have follow up moves to make it worthwhile. Crowder and Bradley are solid players as is. According to several people here, Bradley is a top 2 defensive guard. His scoring efficiency was actually better than butler this year. Say Bradley is 70% the player butler is. Say he's 60%... Whatever. If Bradley needs to be included in the deal, don't you need to factor that into the equation ? Would you give up all our picks just to upgrade Bradley and still fall short of having a franchise player ?
Hence why I say I'm not comfortable going all-in for butler unless is guarantees us Durant. Id prefer the alternative of using the pick to take another big time prospect, keeping Bradley and crowder, and hoping a better option presents itself.
The Okafor comment was obviously an exaggeration, but you constantly make comments exaggerating Okafor's talent and suggesting that he is going to be a surefire future star, even though he a very one dimensional game that is filled with planet-sized flaws.
But then when it comes to Butler, you refer to him as a 'borderline star'.
There is absolutely no debate about whether Butler is a star. He is very clearly a star, and there is absolutely no evidence to back an argument that says anything different.
He's an excellent scorer (20.9 PPG and 1.36 Points Per FGA). He's an outstanding rebounder (5.3 per game) and playmaker (4.8 APG / 2.4 Ast Per TO) for a shooting guard. He's a two time all-defensive team selection. He's a two time all-star. He is extremely disciplined (low turnover and foul rates) and plays with grit and with 100% effort every night, so he has all the intangibles you could want in a player.
Butler is about as close as it gets to being to being the 'perfect' shooting guard in that his game is pretty much completely void of any major flaws, and he does just about everything at a high level. You could make a very strong argument that he is the best SG in the NBA.
If there is any criticism of Butler it's that he doesn't put up out of this world scoring numbers (e.g. 25 PPG) but if he did he would be a superstar, not a star. If you want to argue whether he is a superstar, then that's fine. But a Star? That is undeniable.
Hell there are still people here who try to argue that Horford, Hayward, Love and Milsap are stars in their current career state. Butler is (at least) one whole level above those guys.
Is he as good as Durant, Lebron, Curry, Davis, etc? Of course not. Those guys are franchise players and are perennial superstars.
Butler isn't on that level, but he's one step down from those guys, he's only 26 years old, and he's improved every single year he's been in the league. He is a young two-way star who still has his best years ahead of him.
I actually think I'd take Butler over Paul George. It would be a difficult decision, but I think when push comes to shove I'd take Butler. I think George has more talent and that they are on par overall as players, but take Butler because of his intangibles if put on the spot to choose.