Author Topic: Trading for Jahlil Okafor  (Read 15010 times)

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Trading for Jahlil Okafor
« on: April 24, 2016, 01:28:05 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Sounds like Philly would prefer to have Embid play along side Noel, making Okafor the odd man out... Can Danny pry Okafor away from Philly without giving up the Brooklyn Pick? I'm also wondering if Okafors off court antics have lowered his stock enough to allow the Celtics to get him with either the 16th and the 23rd picks or trading Smart/Bradley and the 16th pick...

Unless the Celtics are able to get a top 2 pick and draft Simmons or Ingram, I would still prefer having Okafor than what would be available with a 3-6 pick...

Thoughts?

Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Trading for Jahlil Okafor
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2016, 01:33:16 PM »

Offline The Rondo Show

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It will absolutely take the Brooklyn pick, which I would gladly give if outside the top-2.
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Re: Trading for Jahlil Okafor
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2016, 01:34:03 PM »

Offline max215

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See standard responses below :).
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Re: Trading for Jahlil Okafor
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2016, 01:46:04 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Seriously, ANOTHER "trading for Jahlil Okafor" thread?!?

Sorry for the negative connotation, but I swear there must be at least 5-10 "trading for Jahlil Okafor" threads on here in the past 2 months, all of which end up with the same old people making the exact same old responses. 

I'm going to say the same thing I have said every time. 

1) Yes, it probably would take the Brooklyn pick and players

2) No I wouldn't do it (even if the pick falls as far as #5 or#6)

3) Because I think Okafor is a one dimensional bum who has absolutely no talents outside of post scoring, and is such a major liability that Philly is something like 4 points Per 100 possessions worse when Okafor is on the court. 

Yep, it takes a special kinda of player to be so [dang] bad that the worst team in the entire NBA (and one of the worst all-time over the past 3 seasons) is actually better when Okafor is NOT playing.

Re: Trading for Jahlil Okafor
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2016, 01:47:56 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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See standard responses below :).

So you think they shouldn't get him, even if they are able to do so without trading the Brooklyn pick? Care to elaborate as to why?
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Trading for Jahlil Okafor
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2016, 01:52:42 PM »

Offline max215

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So you think they shouldn't get him, even if they are able to do so without trading the Brooklyn pick? Care to elaborate as to why?

I think he doesn't make sense in today's NBA. Not necessarily because of his outdated offensive game, but because of his defense. Having a negative defensive presence at the 5 is just not viable. If we could get him for nothing, sure, he's talented and I'd take him, but that's not happening. I'd rather have Ingram, Simmons, almost definitely Bender, and probably Hield.
Isaiah, you were lightning in a bottle.

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Re: Trading for Jahlil Okafor
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2016, 01:54:45 PM »

Offline Emmette Bryant

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Seriously, ANOTHER "trading for Jahlil Okafor" thread?!?

Sorry for the negative connotation, but I swear there must be at least 5-10 "trading for Jahlil Okafor" threads on here in the past 2 months, all of which end up with the same old people making the exact same old responses. 


This.

TP for being annoyed by a subject that's been been beaten to death. I think that the OP should have at least revived one of the old "trade for Okafor" threads.

Re: Trading for Jahlil Okafor
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2016, 02:04:56 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I wonder if he can play in the Small Ball system of CBS.   He does have some attitude issues that scare me as well.  Your right, he may be better than what we can get at 3-6 though but some thoughts to ponder:

The sixers were better without him this year.

http://patternofbasketball.blogspot.com/2016/02/76ers.html

http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612755/lineups/advanced/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=2&sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*500

His D is suspect.

http://www.sbnation.com/2016/3/8/11179130/jahlil-okafor-76ers-strengths-weaknesses-win

and he needs certain personnel around him.   We have a guy like that in Sully, now.   We should get versatile guys who can play with all types of people and line-ups.

I would rather bring Noel home but he has his flaws too.

Re: Trading for Jahlil Okafor
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2016, 02:11:42 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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See standard responses below :).

So you think they shouldn't get him, even if they are able to do so without trading the Brooklyn pick? Care to elaborate as to why?

I think he doesn't make sense in today's NBA. Not necessarily because of his outdated offensive game, but because of his defense. Having a negative defensive presence at the 5 is just not viable. If we could get him for nothing, sure, he's talented and I'd take him, but that's not happening. I'd rather have Ingram, Simmons, almost definitely Bender, and probably Hield.

So you don't think that defense can be improved upon and that being in a better environment would make any difference? Do you think that Al Jefferson make sense in today's NBA? I can't believe how down some people are on Okafor. He didn't play good defense as a rookie for the leagues worst team and hes a lost cause... Then you have other posters stating that it will take the Brooklyn pick to get him.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Trading for Jahlil Okafor
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2016, 02:18:26 PM »

Offline max215

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See standard responses below :).

So you think they shouldn't get him, even if they are able to do so without trading the Brooklyn pick? Care to elaborate as to why?

I think he doesn't make sense in today's NBA. Not necessarily because of his outdated offensive game, but because of his defense. Having a negative defensive presence at the 5 is just not viable. If we could get him for nothing, sure, he's talented and I'd take him, but that's not happening. I'd rather have Ingram, Simmons, almost definitely Bender, and probably Hield.

So you don't think that defense can be improved upon and that being in a better environment would make any difference? Do you think that Al Jefferson make sense in today's NBA? I can't believe how down some people are on Okafor. He didn't play good defense as a rookie for the leagues worst team and hes a lost cause... Then you have other posters stating that it will take the Brooklyn pick to get him.

I think his defense might get better, but he's slow footed and would have to develop a lot of skills. It's not easy to develop defensive skills, especially at the 5. I would not want Big Al on this team and I think Charlotte is better off without him (as evidenced by his negative On-Off Differential). Okafor was also a pitiful rebounder, a skill which rarely develops, and typically erodes at a young age. I think he would absolutely cost the Nets Pick, because Philly is not parting with one of their best assets for pennies.
Isaiah, you were lightning in a bottle.

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Re: Trading for Jahlil Okafor
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2016, 02:37:10 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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See standard responses below :).

So you think they shouldn't get him, even if they are able to do so without trading the Brooklyn pick? Care to elaborate as to why?

I think he doesn't make sense in today's NBA. Not necessarily because of his outdated offensive game, but because of his defense. Having a negative defensive presence at the 5 is just not viable. If we could get him for nothing, sure, he's talented and I'd take him, but that's not happening. I'd rather have Ingram, Simmons, almost definitely Bender, and probably Hield.

So you don't think that defense can be improved upon and that being in a better environment would make any difference? Do you think that Al Jefferson make sense in today's NBA? I can't believe how down some people are on Okafor. He didn't play good defense as a rookie for the leagues worst team and hes a lost cause... Then you have other posters stating that it will take the Brooklyn pick to get him.

There is a very big difference between a guy who didnt play good defense, versus a guy who is (statistically) one of the 2-3 worst defensive centers in the entire NBA.

The problem with Okafor also isn't JUST his defense.  It's pretty much everything.

He cant hit a jump shot to save his life - a very important thing in today's NBA.

He's a very mediocre rebounder despite the fact that he's extremely young, is perfectly healthy, and is 6'11" and ~280 pounds with a 7'5" wingspan.  Hes putting up rebounding numbers about on par with Jonas Jerebko or Amir Johnson.

He cannot defend - period.

He doesnt get to the line at a high rate, despite the fact that his game is entirely focused on physical interior play.

His supposedly impressive playmaking ability vanished when he came to the nba.  He shows no signs of being able to make quality plays and has a poor assist:turmover ratio.

He's horribly slow - he moves like i imagine Roy Hibbert would if he was 45 years old with two bad knees and a weight problem

He seems to suffer from the Jared Sullinger syndrome - he looks horribly conditioned and doesn't look like he especially cares

There are signs of character concerns.

The Sixers are so high on this supposedly uber talented 19 year old centre...that they're willing to give up on him and trade him after one year over Noel (a guy who has no offensive game) and Embiid (a guy who hasn't played a single NBA game in two seasons).  If that doesn't sound the alarm bells in your head, then i don't know what does...because Sully has been an overweight sloth since he got here and Danny still gave him the benefit off the doubt. A rebuilding team doesnt give up on a 19 year old top 3 pick unless there are some seriously extreme concerns.

There are so many red flags about Jahlil Okafor that it is just so much easier and quicker to list what he does well, then it is to list what he does poorly.  That's why i sick to the easy and quick response of "he's a good post scorer amd utterly garbage at everything else".

To which I usually get responses like "but he's averaging 17 points and 8 rebounds for the 76ers as a rookie!!" - as if averaging 17 PPG for the 76ers is some kind of great achievement.

MCW averaged 16 / 5 / 5 there as a rookie, and the second he left Philly he's looked like hot garbage.  Nerlens Noel averaged double figures there, and he might be the worst offensive player in the entire NBA.   I think my overweight senior aged cat could average 17 PPG playing for the Sixers, no word of a lie.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 02:50:47 PM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Trading for Jahlil Okafor
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2016, 03:12:22 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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First of all I don't see any trade not including the pick making any sense for Philly.  Unless you are suggesting we trade Marcus smart or Avery Bradley in a package, no collection of late 1sts is going to entice that team.  They can get better offers elsewhere

As far as whether or not we should do it... Really the discussion should be less about Okafor's red flags and more about how Okafor compares to our options with the pick.  If Ainge feels okafor is a better bet than whatever is available to us, he will make the move.  Much 2006 when he surveyed our options with the 7th pick and decided he'd rather gamble on Sebastian telfair.

You never know how it might work out.  But there's some major positives to Okafor.  He's coming off a rookie season where he nearly averaged 20 and 10.  Luckily there are some guards at the top of the draft that Philly might have interest in, but keep in mind they might already have two picks on the top 5.   They'd have to really love this draft to move a solid prospect like Okafor for another guy at the top of what is being called a pretty weak draft.

Re: Trading for Jahlil Okafor
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2016, 03:30:29 PM »

Offline max215

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First of all I don't see any trade not including the pick making any sense for Philly.  Unless you are suggesting we trade Marcus smart or Avery Bradley in a package, no collection of late 1sts is going to entice that team.  They can get better offers elsewhere

As far as whether or not we should do it... Really the discussion should be less about Okafor's red flags and more about how Okafor compares to our options with the pick.  If Ainge feels okafor is a better bet than whatever is available to us, he will make the move.  Much 2006 when he surveyed our options with the 7th pick and decided he'd rather gamble on Sebastian telfair.

You never know how it might work out.  But there's some major positives to Okafor.  He's coming off a rookie season where he nearly averaged 20 and 10.  Luckily there are some guards at the top of the draft that Philly might have interest in, but keep in mind they might already have two picks on the top 5.   They'd have to really love this draft to move a solid prospect like Okafor for another guy at the top of what is being called a pretty weak draft.

17.5 and 7 is nowhere near 20 and 10. That's the equivalent of saying Isaiah averaged 25/7/5 (MVP numbers vs. All-Star numbers).
Isaiah, you were lightning in a bottle.

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Re: Trading for Jahlil Okafor
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2016, 03:44:59 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Smart and the Nets(3-5) pick for Okafor and 24th pick seems right. I don't like Okafor very much but he had a good 1st year and is more promising than any of the guys at 3-6. I'd much rather just trade Dallas pick, philly second and Brooklyn 2018 for Noel. And not lose Smart at all. 76ers may like the idea of a high pick with out having to tank themselves coming soon. It's better than the MCW deal so maybe they  take it. Will ultimately depend on if 76ers get Simmons or Bender. If they do it makes sense to stay with Okafor and move Noel.

Re: Trading for Jahlil Okafor
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2016, 03:48:19 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Sounds like Philly would prefer to have Embid play along side Noel, making Okafor the odd man out... Can Danny pry Okafor away from Philly without giving up the Brooklyn Pick? I'm also wondering if Okafors off court antics have lowered his stock enough to allow the Celtics to get him with either the 16th and the 23rd picks or trading Smart/Bradley and the 16th pick...

Unless the Celtics are able to get a top 2 pick and draft Simmons or Ingram, I would still prefer having Okafor than what would be available with a 3-6 pick...

Thoughts?

no.  I can see if we don't draft simmons or ingram or another player danny is crazy about

trading the nets pick for okafor

but smart and or AB will not be included

MAYBE rozier , Young, nets,  23rd, 31st