Bulls Front Office: "Anything is on the table" with regard to Butler

[saltlover]

Koz is right; even with the 3rd position, there's a better than 50% chance the pick will fall in the 4-5 range.

Koz is wrong. He said we should "fully expect" that pick in the 4-5 range.  I'm only half-expecting it.

I took "fully expect" to mean, "You should prepare yourselves for this happening."

Which is my philosophy also.  I'll start dreaming about how Brad Stevens builds a top 5 offense around Ben Simmons after the lottery, if that's how things shake out.

Otherwise, I'll be watching Buddy Hield and Jamal Murray highlights  .

I know.  Just having fun with our probabilistic universe.

[Irish Stew]

Interesting.   Bulls tell Celtics we will take your nets 1st (even if it's not top 2, and anyways Danny wouldn't give up those picks)  plus your mavs and 2 good 2nds .   And Rozier

Lot to give up but Butler is locked up and would fit like a glove on the Celtics squad

Im not sure how the lineup would look like after the trade

This would be the bargain of the decade for a NBA elite player in the prime of his career. This is why Danny got these draft assets, not to draft an endless parade of teenagers destined to play in Maine, Europe, and Australia.

[kozlodoev]

Koz is right; even with the 3rd position, there's a better than 50% chance the pick will fall in the 4-5 range.

It's basically 50-50 between top 3 and 4-6. Don't understand the pessimism on this.

Just trying to temper the expectations that seemed to emanate from all those "what are we going to do with the 3rd pick" thread. We're just as likely to get the third pick as we are to get the first, and it's not a very probable outcome.

The way the draft odds are laid out, our most likely draft position is 5th (27%), followed by 4th (22%). Picks 1, 2, and 3 are in fact equally (and considerably less) likely (~16% each).

[Donoghus]

Koz is right; even with the 3rd position, there's a better than 50% chance the pick will fall in the 4-5 range.

It's basically 50-50 between top 3 and 4-6. Don't understand the pessimism on this.

Just trying to temper the expectations that seemed to emanate from all those "what are we going to do with the 3rd pick" thread. We're just as likely to get the third pick as we are to get the first, and it's not a very probable outcome.

The way the draft odds are laid out, our most likely draft position is 5th (27%), followed by 4th (22%). Picks 1, 2, and 3 are in fact equally (and considerably less) likely (~16% each).

Koz with your "Kick in the Junk" Fact of the Day everybody.

[kozlodoev]

Koz is right; even with the 3rd position, there's a better than 50% chance the pick will fall in the 4-5 range.

It's basically 50-50 between top 3 and 4-6. Don't understand the pessimism on this.

Just trying to temper the expectations that seemed to emanate from all those "what are we going to do with the 3rd pick" thread. We're just as likely to get the third pick as we are to get the first, and it's not a very probable outcome.

The way the draft odds are laid out, our most likely draft position is 5th (27%), followed by 4th (22%). Picks 1, 2, and 3 are in fact equally (and considerably less) likely (~16% each).

Koz with your "Kick in the Junk" Fact of the Day everybody.

Come on, D, I thought everyone knew that already

[Moranis]

Am I the only one that thinks AB + #3 pick is a little too much Value for Butler? Chicago needs throw in a little something extra..

You are wrong.  I would bet that wouldn't be anywhere near enough for Butler.

[loco_91]

smart, brk 3 or lower, dallas for Butler

I want to keep Bradley, he is the best defender in the league to try and defend Curry if we meet them in the finals in the next few years .

Yeah, I also think Bradley is more of a keeper than Smart.  Has really developed a great stroke. Doubtful we will ever see that from Smart.

I agree with trading Smart and keeping AB only if AB will except the 6th man role. If he excepts it then this team becomes special.

I don't understand this at all. AB is a vet with little potential for further growth, and when his contract is up he'll be unrestricted. Smart is miles and miles ahead of where AB was at his age, and he's cost controlled for longer. I actually think Smart is as good as AB already, but that's debatable. What's obvious is that Smart's value >>> Bradley's.

[Donoghus]

Am I the only one that thinks AB + #3 pick is a little too much Value for Butler? Chicago needs throw in a little something extra..

You are wrong.  I would bet that wouldn't be anywhere near enough for Butler.

I'd agree.  Chicago is going to want a ransom for Butler.  The #3 & AB wouldn't even be a starting point. 

[alldaboston]

smart, brk 3 or lower, dallas for Butler

I want to keep Bradley, he is the best defender in the league to try and defend Curry if we meet them in the finals in the next few years .

Yeah, I also think Bradley is more of a keeper than Smart.  Has really developed a great stroke. Doubtful we will ever see that from Smart.

I agree with trading Smart and keeping AB only if AB will except the 6th man role. If he excepts it then this team becomes special.

I don't understand this at all. AB is a vet with little potential for further growth, and when his contract is up he'll be unrestricted. Smart is miles and miles ahead of where AB was at his age, and he's cost controlled for longer. I actually think Smart is as good as AB already, but that's debatable. What's obvious is that Smart's value >>> Bradley's.

Maybe at the beginning of the season, but now I'm not so sure. Smart's lack of offensive progression this year has to be very bad for his value. And we can't tell whether smart is actually better than Bradley was at this age bc Bradley wasn't getting a ton of PT, or he had just started to get decent PT.

It's like the college argument in a way. The longer you are in college, the more flaws people will notice and the more your stock is susceptible to drop. This is basically smart right now. This season kinda lowered his value in my eyes, his poor offense being the main reason. Avery wasn't getting as much PT as this age, so you couldn't really tell what his value was. But since smart has gotten time, we can make a judgment about his value more easily. And now, it's most likely less than Bradleys

[crimson_stallion]

To people mentioning AB: he can't be a deal breaker but I think Danny would have to try his hardest to keep him.  His defensive skill-set is literally perfect for the current perimeter-oriented NBA and he's on a cheap contract.

I also think we could get it done without including AB.

the reasons for including AB (from my perspective) are:
- Butler replicates what AB does but better. 
- AB becomes a luxury off the bench if kept, not providing a lot of minutes to really utilize his skills
- Including AB decreases the need to include a lot more assets.   If we moved AB and #3 pick, that should be enough prime assets.  Including Hunter/Young/Mickey and seconds (or the C's pick) shouldn't be a dealbreaker.
- Including AB should eliminate the need to include Smart in the deal.
- AB is pretty much just a SG.  He doesn't offer ballhandling skills like Smart so we're moving the more-limited player in terms of position.

Id rather trade Smart then Bradley.  AB is a better player now, and there's still a big question mark over what Smarts ceiling really is.  Right now I'm not sure it's especially high.  I imagine the bulls will see it that way too, hence why i think they'd want Bradley and not Smart.

Happy to use Rozier and Turner at backup PG with Smart gone...no biggie

fair enough.  while AB is certainly the better shooter right now and showing some drives to the basket, he's not nearly as good with the ball in his hands or passing as Smart.  While he's certainly a very good defender, Smart is at least a notch above him in that regard. 

I'm not as attached to Smart as I was at the start of the season so if he's what the Bulls wanted for Butler, I'd make the deal if it was Smart and the #3 and either the C's 1st rounder/2 seconds or Young/Hunter/Mickey.   about the same as the AB deal but I think I'd look for more of a return if we traded Smart.  maybe a protected first from the Bulls or another player that's of some use.

Honestly, I'm not so sure.

Smart isn't a very good ball handler, and Bradley is a much improved one.  I don't feel they're that far apart as ball handlers at this point, though Smart is definately a better passer.

Defensively i don't feel Smart is better, i feel they're about on par.  Smart the better team defender, while Bradley is (imho) a better on the ball defender due to his ability to pressue opponents and both:

A) Force turnovers
B) Take ball handlers out of their comfort zone

Smart is a better rebounder, but Bradley's ability to take over games with his scoring IMHO makes him the more valuable of the two. 

Money is also a moot point i think given how crazy how good value Bradley's contact is.

Not to say i dont like Smart or that i want him traded, i love hIs toughness and physicality.  Plus he's only 21, and we often don't get a team glimpse at how good players can be until they reach 24-25.  He should grow a long way.

But Bradley is only 25 as well, and hes improved significantly IMO in each of his past two seasons...so he may well not have reached his ceiling yet.  Hes barely older then Sully and Olynyk, after all.

[crimson_stallion]

smart, brk 3 or lower, dallas for Butler

I want to keep Bradley, he is the best defender in the league to try and defend Curry if we meet them in the finals in the next few years .

Yeah, I also think Bradley is more of a keeper than Smart.  Has really developed a great stroke. Doubtful we will ever see that from Smart.

I agree with trading Smart and keeping AB only if AB will except the 6th man role. If he excepts it then this team becomes special.

I don't understand this at all. AB is a vet with little potential for further growth, and when his contract is up he'll be unrestricted. Smart is miles and miles ahead of where AB was at his age, and he's cost controlled for longer. I actually think Smart is as good as AB already, but that's debatable. What's obvious is that Smart's value >>> Bradley's.

Smart is 21.

When Bradley was 21 he stole Ray Allen's starting spot, shot 40% from three, and was recognised as one of the leagues elite defensive players.

Then he got hurt which impacted his growth...but Bradley was probably a better player then Smart at 21.  He ws at the very least on par. I doubt smart would habe been able to earn a starting role on that Celtics team, personally.

[mctyson]

What is the most people would give up for Butler?

I'd give up all our 1st round picks this year a future Brooklyn pick and either Avery or Olynyk. I probably would live with them dealing Smart but I wouldn't give up as many picks in that deal.

If we add Butler, I think it increases our chances of getting Horford or Durant.

Smart, Young, Rozier, Jerebko, BRK pick, DAL pick. Perhaps some additional minor draft considerations (pick swap, 2nd rounders) if needed. Could also involve Amir if Bulls want to dump a contract (Taj?).

That seems reasonable, although Bulls fans probably don't agree.

My guess is Bulls fans would want multiple BRK picks, Smart, and Crowder.

Are these comments jokes?  Or are they serious?

[mctyson]

I'd be happy to grab Butler, but I think he's a tad overrated.

Ya think? Just a tad...

[danglertx]

The only way I give up the #3 pick and Bradley for Butler is if I am sure I am getting Durant and we are just going all in the next couple years for a championship.  Otherwise, I'm cool just keeping the rebuild on schedule, well ahead of schedule actually.

[Vermont Green]

When the Bulls say anything is on the table, that may be true but I suspect Butler would be the last thing to come off the table.  I think a trade for Butler is a pipe dream.