Author Topic: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis  (Read 70035 times)

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Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #255 on: May 03, 2016, 05:18:36 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I just can't come up with any great post players that had short arms.

Interesting you bring up the point about smart, I feel like sabonis has smarts bball iq, but on offense instead of defense.

I do see him as much better than nick Collison however.

I hope Eddie20 was joking.    They don't compare. Sabonis is much better at the same age

Based on that comment I'm pretty sure you never saw Collison play at Kansas. But let's compare...


Sophomore seasons


Collison vs Sabonis

PPG 14.0 - 17.6
RPG 6.7 - 11.8
APG 2.2 - 1.8
SPG 1.1 - 0.6
BPG 1.6 - 0.9
MPG 27.0 - 31.9
FG% 59.7 - 61.1

(Measurements)
HT w/ shoes 6-10 - 6-10
WT 255 - 238
Wingspan 7-1.5 - 6-10.5
Standing Reach 9-0 - ?
Max Vert 33.0 - ?



The major difference between the two though is that one played in a tough conference (Big 12), while the other played vs mediocre opponents (WAC).

Collison went on to play 2 more seasons at Kansas and was the player of the year his senior season. He then was drafted #12 (where roughly Sabonis projects). However, the point is when you lack length and athleticism, even though young Collison was more athletic and has more length than current Sabonis, your upside is limited despite who your dad is and how gritty you are.



Just so you know how Collison looked at Kansas...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB5NJAFTP-0

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #256 on: May 03, 2016, 05:44:13 PM »

Offline moiso

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Collison was a very nice prospect coming out of college, better than Sabonis.  He was on the USA basketball team with Duncan, Kidd, Iverson, McGrady, Bryant, etc.  Collison turned out to be a very solid player and I expected him to be even better.

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #257 on: May 03, 2016, 05:50:23 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Collison was a very nice prospect coming out of college, better than Sabonis.  He was on the USA basketball team with Duncan, Kidd, Iverson, McGrady, Bryant, etc.  Collison turned out to be a very solid player and I expected him to be even better.

Exactly. People become prisoners of the moment and make uneducated comments without truly understanding the type of player Collison was. Collision was a solid NBA player, but his college success didn't translate because of physical limitations.

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #258 on: May 03, 2016, 06:29:20 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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However his go to move in the post is his lefty jump hook. Jump hooks are very hard to get off against larger, longer players, as it is basically a straight up shot. As opposed to a post fade, which naturally creates separation, a post hook tends to be shot "over" your defender from a standing position. Most dominant hook shots in nba history are used by huge players. Hakeem, kareem, shaq (his baby hook is very underrated) are all longer than their opposition.

This is nonsense, jump hooks if done properly use your body to keep the defender away from the ball.  How tall are you?  Because, I am pretty sure that you never played in the post or maybe played ball period.  A post fade can create space but the defender can also close that space.  Tall guys shoot more because they are in the post more and it is a post shot, not because you have to be tall to take it...

Quote
The jump hook is a very effective shot near the basket, particularly when a taller player is guarding you.

http://www.usab.com/youth/news/2010/10/the-jump-hook.aspx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7we0Dob8UPY

Quote
Jump hook: A hook shot taken while jumping, popular among big men because it is difficult to block.

http://en.mimi.hu/basketball/jump_hook.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzJEe66_ACw

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #259 on: May 03, 2016, 07:07:24 PM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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However his go to move in the post is his lefty jump hook. Jump hooks are very hard to get off against larger, longer players, as it is basically a straight up shot. As opposed to a post fade, which naturally creates separation, a post hook tends to be shot "over" your defender from a standing position. Most dominant hook shots in nba history are used by huge players. Hakeem, kareem, shaq (his baby hook is very underrated) are all longer than their opposition.

This is nonsense, jump hooks if done properly use your body to keep the defender away from the ball.  How tall are you?  Because, I am pretty sure that you never played in the post or maybe played ball period.  A post fade can create space but the defender can also close that space.  Tall guys shoot more because they are in the post more and it is a post shot, not because you have to be tall to take it...

Quote
The jump hook is a very effective shot near the basket, particularly when a taller player is guarding you.

http://www.usab.com/youth/news/2010/10/the-jump-hook.aspx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7we0Dob8UPY

Quote
Jump hook: A hook shot taken while jumping, popular among big men because it is difficult to block.

http://en.mimi.hu/basketball/jump_hook.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzJEe66_ACw

You got me. I'm only 6'4 so I played mostly forward in high school. My coach would always yell at me whenever I went for hookshots against bigger players. I guess I was referring more to baby hook than a full hook shot.
#JKJB

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #260 on: May 03, 2016, 08:54:09 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I just can't come up with any great post players that had short arms.

Interesting you bring up the point about smart, I feel like sabonis has smarts bball iq, but on offense instead of defense.

I do see him as much better than nick Collison however.

I hope Eddie20 was joking.    They don't compare. Sabonis is much better at the same age

Based on that comment I'm pretty sure you never saw Collison play at Kansas. But let's compare...


Sophomore seasons


Collison vs Sabonis

PPG 14.0 - 17.6
RPG 6.7 - 11.8
APG 2.2 - 1.8
SPG 1.1 - 0.6
BPG 1.6 - 0.9
MPG 27.0 - 31.9
FG% 59.7 - 61.1

(Measurements)
HT w/ shoes 6-10 - 6-10
WT 255 - 238
Wingspan 7-1.5 - 6-10.5
Standing Reach 9-0 - ?
Max Vert 33.0 - ?



The major difference between the two though is that one played in a tough conference (Big 12), while the other played vs mediocre opponents (WAC).

Collison went on to play 2 more seasons at Kansas and was the player of the year his senior season. He then was drafted #12 (where roughly Sabonis projects). However, the point is when you lack length and athleticism, even though young Collison was more athletic and has more length than current Sabonis, your upside is limited despite who your dad is and how gritty you are.



Just so you know how Collison looked at Kansas...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB5NJAFTP-0

you are off Eddie20

why don't you post Collisons 4 year stats.  Are Year 1 and 2 considered good?  Especially  rebounding #s. You tell me

Sabonis on the other hand did what collison did in his 2nd season at age 19

collison was player of the year, in his 4th year.     Wasn't Hansborough also a player of the year winner in his 4th year?


Hansborough , collison as good as they were as older college players also are 6'8, 6'9 pfs with mediocre wingspan, mediocre lateral quickness and can't jump off the ground quickly (Sabonis 2nd jump is quicker).  They both also have little to offer around the post (outside of overpowering younger players in college). 

I can understand why you bring up Collison to compare to Sabonis but if you dig deeper and look at the finer details,  Sabonis is a better player  at the same age no question. Don't forget also is 6'10-6'11 vs 6'8-6'9 which makes a difference.   For example you can see over people making it easier to make passes etc.   
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 08:59:44 PM by triboy16f »

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #261 on: May 03, 2016, 09:12:32 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I just can't come up with any great post players that had short arms.

Interesting you bring up the point about smart, I feel like sabonis has smarts bball iq, but on offense instead of defense.

I do see him as much better than nick Collison however.

I hope Eddie20 was joking.    They don't compare. Sabonis is much better at the same age

Based on that comment I'm pretty sure you never saw Collison play at Kansas. But let's compare...


Sophomore seasons


Collison vs Sabonis

PPG 14.0 - 17.6
RPG 6.7 - 11.8
APG 2.2 - 1.8
SPG 1.1 - 0.6
BPG 1.6 - 0.9
MPG 27.0 - 31.9
FG% 59.7 - 61.1

(Measurements)
HT w/ shoes 6-10 - 6-10
WT 255 - 238
Wingspan 7-1.5 - 6-10.5
Standing Reach 9-0 - ?
Max Vert 33.0 - ?



The major difference between the two though is that one played in a tough conference (Big 12), while the other played vs mediocre opponents (WAC).

Collison went on to play 2 more seasons at Kansas and was the player of the year his senior season. He then was drafted #12 (where roughly Sabonis projects). However, the point is when you lack length and athleticism, even though young Collison was more athletic and has more length than current Sabonis, your upside is limited despite who your dad is and how gritty you are.



Just so you know how Collison looked at Kansas...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB5NJAFTP-0

you are off Eddie20

why don't you post Collisons 4 year stats.  Are Year 1 and 2 considered good?  Especially  rebounding #s. You tell me

Sabonis on the other hand did what collison did in his 2nd season at age 19

collison was player of the year, in his 4th year.     Wasn't Hansborough also a player of the year winner in his 4th year?


Hansborough , collison as good as they were as older college players also are 6'8, 6'9 pfs with mediocre wingspan, mediocre lateral quickness and can't jump off the ground quickly (Sabonis 2nd jump is quicker).  They both also have little to offer around the post (outside of overpowering younger players in college). 

I can understand why you bring up Collison to compare to Sabonis but if you dig deeper and look at the finer details,  Sabonis is a better player  at the same age no question. Don't forget also is 6'10-6'11 vs 6'8-6'9 which makes a difference.   For example you can see over people making it easier to make passes etc.   

Triboy, and I mean this with all due respect, but do you have any idea what you're talking about or do you type things without putting any actual thought into it?

What I posted was a direct comparison of Collison's sophomore numbers vs Sabonis' sophomore numbers, but Collison played in a way harder conference. Collision not only continued to improve, but played in back to back final 4's and was the player of the year in his senior season. Furthermore, you list heights that are simply incorrect. They're both the same size, not 6-11 for Sabonis and 6-8, 6-9 for Collison. If you never watched Collison play in college, that's ok. But please don't pretend you have and start saying things that simply aren't true. That makes you lose credibility. 

Collison pre-draft measurements
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Nick-Collison-2031/stats/

Sabonis measurements last season
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Domantas-Sabonis-62889/

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #262 on: May 03, 2016, 09:20:56 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/nick-collison-1.html

http://www.nba.com/draft2003/profiles/CollisonNick.html

6'9 buddy

Get your facts straight eddie20

Collision and Sabonis are not comparable if you look at the finer details

Tougher conference?? Well Sabonis helped gonzaga to the elite 8 in year 1 and carried gonzaga to sweet 16 in year 2.  Does that balance it out for you then?


Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #263 on: May 03, 2016, 09:26:22 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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Collison was a very nice prospect coming out of college, better than Sabonis.  He was on the USA basketball team with Duncan, Kidd, Iverson, McGrady, Bryant, etc.  Collison turned out to be a very solid player and I expected him to be even better.

Exactly. People become prisoners of the moment and make uneducated comments without truly understanding the type of player Collison was. Collision was a solid NBA player, but his college success didn't translate because of physical limitations.

You'll note that a lot of Bill Self's players don't translate into the association for the same reasons.

Perry Ellis was a terrific collegian; he will be an NBA journeyman. One example.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #264 on: May 03, 2016, 09:26:33 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/nick-collison-1.html

http://www.nba.com/draft2003/profiles/CollisonNick.html

6'9 buddy

Get your facts straight eddie20

Collision and Sabonis are not comparable if you look at the finer details

Tougher conference?? Well Sabonis helped gonzaga to the elite 8 in year 1 and carried gonzaga to sweet 16 in year 2.  Does that balance it out for you then?

Triboy, what I listed was his actual measurements in his NBA pre-draft camp not just a random number. Listen man, I'm done arguing with ignorance. If you want to continue howling at the moon then go ahead. It's pretty clear though that you have no idea what you're talking about and are just overrating players in an illogical manner as usual.

Take care.

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #265 on: May 03, 2016, 09:28:46 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Collison was a very nice prospect coming out of college, better than Sabonis.  He was on the USA basketball team with Duncan, Kidd, Iverson, McGrady, Bryant, etc.  Collison turned out to be a very solid player and I expected him to be even better.

Exactly. People become prisoners of the moment and make uneducated comments without truly understanding the type of player Collison was. Collision was a solid NBA player, but his college success didn't translate because of physical limitations.

You'll note that a lot of Bill Self's players don't translate into the association for the same reasons.

Perry Ellis was a terrific collegian; he will be an NBA journeyman. One example.

Roy Williams

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #266 on: May 03, 2016, 09:29:26 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Collison was a very nice prospect coming out of college, better than Sabonis.  He was on the USA basketball team with Duncan, Kidd, Iverson, McGrady, Bryant, etc.  Collison turned out to be a very solid player and I expected him to be even better.

Exactly. People become prisoners of the moment and make uneducated comments without truly understanding the type of player Collison was. Collision was a solid NBA player, but his college success didn't translate because of physical limitations.

You'll note that a lot of Bill Self's players don't translate into the association for the same reasons.

Perry Ellis was a terrific collegian; he will be an NBA journeyman. One example.

I agree. I think Ellis will be a nice 2nd round pick up though

if Danny keeps all his picks hoping he uses one to grab Ellis in the 2nd round

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #267 on: May 10, 2016, 05:34:10 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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. Ainge on team: "We have a lot of tough guys, that's sort of our identity. You're not gonna fit in (w/ this team) if you're not a tough kid."

Hence why I'm saying Sabonis is a good fit

Also Hart.  And skal plays with a chip on his shoulders though he has some ways to go (adding strength especially)

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #268 on: May 11, 2016, 05:50:58 PM »

Offline meangreenmachine

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His dad was very good. The same can be said of Tim Hardaway and Glen Rice, but we already know their sons are not nearly as good as them. That said, Domantas Sabonis could possibly approach being as good as his father was near the tail end of his career, which is worth the 10th overall pick or lower...

Re: I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #269 on: May 11, 2016, 06:22:13 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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. Ainge on team: "We have a lot of tough guys, that's sort of our identity. You're not gonna fit in (w/ this team) if you're not a tough kid."

Hence why I'm saying Sabonis is a good fit

Also Hart.  And skal plays with a chip on his shoulders though he has some ways to go (adding strength especially)

If by "chip on his shoulders" you mean stands around looking lost, totally agree.