I can see the Celtics drafting Domantas Sabonis

[Tr1boy]

Sabonis at 3-5 is Danny telling Wyc to fire him.

What about taking dunn 3-5 .  what will Danny be telling wyc?

What about taking Murray? Basically draft a SG to come off the bench at 3-5

What about taking a project like bender?

What about taking another project like jaylen brown? 

Tell me what all this means. What Danny is trying to tell wyc lol

Like I stated outside of Ingram and Simmons there are no clear cut number 3, 5, 7, 9  up to 10-12

[A Future of Stevens]

I feel there is however a clear cut 3-8 group, and sabonis just really isn't in it. Will sabonis be better than everyone in the 3-8 group? Possibly. Does almost everybody in that 3-8 group have a much higher ceiling than sabonis? Yes. I think when sabonis is in his prime, his best situation would being the first big off the bench (opinion, don't destroy me over that) feasting on the bench bigs. You wouldn't necessarily build a team around sabonis, and if you did, you would have to find literally the perfect complimentary pieces to really take it to that next level.

[Tr1boy]

I feel there is however a clear cut 3-8 group, and sabonis just really isn't in it. Will sabonis be better than everyone in the 3-8 group? Possibly. Does almost everybody in that 3-8 group have a much higher ceiling than sabonis? Yes. I think when sabonis is in his prime, his best situation would being the first big off the bench (opinion, don't destroy me over that) feasting on the bench bigs. You wouldn't necessarily build a team around sabonis, and if you did, you would have to find literally the perfect complimentary pieces to really take it to that next level.

Sorry you lost me there

Sabonis at 19 carried a no name gonzaga team to the sweet 16 round.

Where did dunn, brown, Murray , poeltl carry their teams to?

No Knock on these young guns but how do you figure these 4 players for example "you can build around" but not a 19 year old player actually proved he can carry a team

You know what. It's your opinion. Hell I could be dead wrong and Sabonis is nothing better than a big off the bench ala Mike Scott.     I know I won't be hearing the end of it.  But that is OK, I'm betting he will be much better than your average prospect. Just too relentless, strong , IQ , skills at 6'10-6'11 package not to.

Hopefully Danny, CBS see the same

[Smart457]

Sabonis is a safe pick similar to how Rodney Hood was. They are solid players and you know what you are most likely going to get from them but you also know you aren't hitting a home run with them.

So it's do you go for the fences or take the pretty sure double.

[A Future of Stevens]

I feel there is however a clear cut 3-8 group, and sabonis just really isn't in it. Will sabonis be better than everyone in the 3-8 group? Possibly. Does almost everybody in that 3-8 group have a much higher ceiling than sabonis? Yes. I think when sabonis is in his prime, his best situation would being the first big off the bench (opinion, don't destroy me over that) feasting on the bench bigs. You wouldn't necessarily build a team around sabonis, and if you did, you would have to find literally the perfect complimentary pieces to really take it to that next level.

Sorry you lost me there

Sabonis at 19 carried a no name gonzaga team to the sweet 16 round.

Where did dunn, brown, Murray , poeltl carry their teams to?

No Knock on these young guns but how do you figure these 4 players for example "you can build around" but not a 19 year old player actually proved he can carry a team

You know what. It's your opinion. Hell I could be dead wrong and Sabonis is nothing better than a big off the bench ala Mike Scott.     I know I won't be hearing the end of it.  But that is OK, I'm betting he will be much better than your average prospect. Just too relentless, strong , IQ , skills at 6'10-6'11 package not to.

Hopefully Danny, CBS see the same

I guess I don't put as much stock in NCAA stock as you do. The college game has diverged so much from the nba, that I don't necessarily think the same set of skills apply. His post scoring might not be as effective due to his undersized wingspan (for his position mind you), and his jumpshot while it has room to grow, is no sure thing. His elite skill is his intangibles.

Most of the other guys have a skill that projects to be elite. Murray -shooting should be very good
Brown- elite athleticism (personally don't really think he will pan out)
Bender- foot speed and positioning on defense for a 7'1 guy.
Dunn- playmaking? Never really seen much with him so don't wanna claim it.
Poeltl - don't like him either for this discussion in regards to an elite skill

But you get the point. It's kinda like Olynyk carrying gonzaga a few years ago or kaminsky. Neither will probably be word beaters (yea I know kaminsky just got in the league, but I'm not a huge fan.) They have skills that are good at the college level that may not translate to the nba. I mean olynyk was very good inside in college, but he is a trashcan there now

However I respect your opinion, you have gotten me to actually look into sabonis, a month ago I was dismissing him for the celtics pick. Now, I would be happy with him at the mavs, even if we traded up with it.

[Tr1boy]

I feel there is however a clear cut 3-8 group, and sabonis just really isn't in it. Will sabonis be better than everyone in the 3-8 group? Possibly. Does almost everybody in that 3-8 group have a much higher ceiling than sabonis? Yes. I think when sabonis is in his prime, his best situation would being the first big off the bench (opinion, don't destroy me over that) feasting on the bench bigs. You wouldn't necessarily build a team around sabonis, and if you did, you would have to find literally the perfect complimentary pieces to really take it to that next level.

Sorry you lost me there

Sabonis at 19 carried a no name gonzaga team to the sweet 16 round.

Where did dunn, brown, Murray , poeltl carry their teams to?

No Knock on these young guns but how do you figure these 4 players for example "you can build around" but not a 19 year old player actually proved he can carry a team

You know what. It's your opinion. Hell I could be dead wrong and Sabonis is nothing better than a big off the bench ala Mike Scott.     I know I won't be hearing the end of it.  But that is OK, I'm betting he will be much better than your average prospect. Just too relentless, strong , IQ , skills at 6'10-6'11 package not to.

Hopefully Danny, CBS see the same

I guess I don't put as much stock in NCAA stock as you do. The college game has diverged so much from the nba, that I don't necessarily think the same set of skills apply. His post scoring might not be as effective due to his undersized wingspan (for his position mind you), and his jumpshot while it has room to grow, is no sure thing. His elite skill is his intangibles.

Most of the other guys have a skill that projects to be elite. Murray -shooting should be very good
Brown- elite athleticism (personally don't really think he will pan out)
Bender- foot speed and positioning on defense for a 7'1 guy.
Dunn- playmaking? Never really seen much with him so don't wanna claim it.
Poeltl - don't like him either for this discussion in regards to an elite skill

But you get the point. It's kinda like Olynyk carrying gonzaga a few years ago or kaminsky. Neither will probably be word beaters (yea I know kaminsky just got in the league, but I'm not a huge fan.) They have skills that are good at the college level that may not translate to the nba. I mean olynyk was very good inside in college, but he is a trashcan there now

However I respect your opinion, you have gotten me to actually look into sabonis, a month ago I was dismissing him for the celtics pick. Now, I would be happy with him at the mavs, even if we traded up with it.

KO actually never carried gonzaga far.  I think they lost in the 1st round. He played well but team was eliminated

Kaminsky was like a grandfather before going to the NBA.   I still think he will turn out OK. After adding some good strength/work on his lateral movement

But Sabonis was 19. Think about that

His post game and rebounding will translate .  post game not as dominant but will still be a tool available. Unlike what happened to sully/ko

[A Future of Stevens]

Olynyk made it to the round of 32, mainly on his shoulders. So yea sabonis carried his team one more game.

I guess my biggest problem with Sabonis is his offensive upside. I think he will be able to add like a slightly below average jumper (not bad for a big).

However his go to move in the post is his lefty jump hook. Jump hooks are very hard to get off against larger, longer players, as it is basically a straight up shot. As opposed to a post fade, which naturally creates separation, a post hook tends to be shot "over" your defender from a standing position. Most dominant hook shots in nba history are used by huge players. Hakeem, kareem, shaq (his baby hook is very underrated) are all longer than their opposition.

That is my biggest hang up on his game, his hook was deadly in college, because he wasn't going against long athletes all the time, but he struggled against elite length (DX weakness video).

I do however like that he has a counter step through, yet I don't know how effective it is if his hook isn't elite anymore. Also his fader needs work.

So yea if he reinvents his offensive repertoire in the post, he could be deadly in the nba. I just don't really know any undersized (length wise) forwards who were dominant in the post.

[Eddie20]

Triboy, with the Nets pick we're looking to hit a homerun, but you seem to be satisfied landing a Nick Collison type player.

[Tr1boy]

Olynyk made it to the round of 32, mainly on his shoulders. So yea sabonis carried his team one more game.

I guess my biggest problem with Sabonis is his offensive upside. I think he will be able to add like a slightly below average jumper (not bad for a big).

However his go to move in the post is his lefty jump hook. Jump hooks are very hard to get off against larger, longer players, as it is basically a straight up shot. As opposed to a post fade, which naturally creates separation, a post hook tends to be shot "over" your defender from a standing position. Most dominant hook shots in nba history are used by huge players. Hakeem, kareem, shaq (his baby hook is very underrated) are all longer than their opposition.

That is my biggest hang up on his game, his hook was deadly in college, because he wasn't going against long athletes all the time, but he struggled against elite length (DX weakness video).

I do however like that he has a counter step through, yet I don't know how effective it is if his hook isn't elite anymore. Also his fader needs work.

So yea if he reinvents his offensive repertoire in the post, he could be deadly in the nba. I just don't really know any undersized (length wise) forwards who were dominant in the post.

He can take his man off the dribble. He will execute the hook shot. Because he is no dummy diving into players who has outstanding length. He dribbles to the middles  fading away then raises his right arm with the baby left hook . and if you "cheat" he will fake you out , up and under, spins.    He has battled against one of the toughest /tall/lengthy opponent all his life. His dad.    You got to believe

Add take his man off the dribble, jump shot that has noticeably improved from year 1.  Again in gonzaga they wanted him 'inside" .  in the NBA he can work an inside/outside game

He is not "stuck" as you project him to be. This is very much a chess player on top of a basketball player.  He is directing players to go here there. Set picks this way that way. Turning his body methodically.     Example watch him in the low lost against guys with longer length. He will rotate one way then to the right , then back tk the middle and shoot from the opponent's chest. Unless you got a 7'7 wingspan or narrow shoulders to raise your arms with both hands touching , it's difficult to block such a shot

Limiting Sabonis that he is xyz or will struggle xyz is not smart. He still has room to grow.  Will outthink on top of trying to outwork you on the court. 

I see Sabonis like I do smart, crowder but a PF version.  But with a higher iq and more efficient offensively

I see Sabonis vs Skal/poeltl as  I see  David West vs Brandan Wright. And I would take David West any day of the week.

Let's see what happens

[A Future of Stevens]

I just can't come up with any great post players that had short arms.

Interesting you bring up the point about smart, I feel like sabonis has smarts bball iq, but on offense instead of defense.

I do see him as much better than nick Collison however.

[Tr1boy]

I just can't come up with any great post players that had short arms.

Interesting you bring up the point about smart, I feel like sabonis has smarts bball iq, but on offense instead of defense.

I do see him as much better than nick Collison however.

I hope Eddie20 was joking.    They don't compare. Sabonis is much better at the same age

[Smart457]

I just can't come up with any great post players that had short arms.

Interesting you bring up the point about smart, I feel like sabonis has smarts bball iq, but on offense instead of defense.

I do see him as much better than nick Collison however.

Maybe a pick and roll big like Malone or Amare but those are two of the best bigs ever at the pick and roll so very bad on me for bringing up those guys in a conversation about Sabonis.

[IDreamCeltics]

I just can't come up with any great post players that had short arms.

Blake Griffin and Kevin Love

[A Future of Stevens]

Amare had a 7'2 wingspan

Malone didn't have any credible sources, but saw some listing him at a little over 7'1wing

Griffin has insane lift on his post moves. It's actually kinda cool how high he rises up to overcome his small arms.

Love I will give you. I kinda forget how dominant in the post he was before lebron stole his juju.

[A Future of Stevens]

I just can't come up with any great post players that had short arms.

Interesting you bring up the point about smart, I feel like sabonis has smarts bball iq, but on offense instead of defense.

I do see him as much better than nick Collison however.

I hope Eddie20 was joking.    They don't compare. Sabonis is much better at the same age

Yea I'm sure he was, I was just making a joking comment about it.