Author Topic: too bad we didn't sign Biyombo instead  (Read 11244 times)

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Re: too bad we didn't sign Biyombo instead
« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2016, 04:43:04 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Nobody knew that biyombo would improve that well

Literally nothing about this surprises me. 

I pointed out numerous times that Charlotte's best defensive lineup included Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and Biyombo.  Biyombo had the best defensive rating on the entire team.  It made no sense that they didn't play those guys more and just build an identity around defense.   When Biyombo was given the opportunity to start on Charlotte, he consistently contributed.  It's one of the many reasons I feel Charlotte is one of the two worst-run teams in the league.

Last year, for instance, in 21 games as a starter he averaged 6.8 points, 8.4 rebounds, 1.8 blocks with 55% shooting in 27mpg.  He was remarkably consistent in his ability to rebound and defend.  His defensive rating was consistently great.   His offense was bad, of course, but he was very clearly a (very cheap and attainable) option for rim protection. 

His per-36 minutes constantly showed a player who would get you 8-9 points, 12 rebounds and 3 blocks with 36 minutes.   And when he played 36+ minutes, he was remarkably consistent in backing up those per-36 numbers.

I got heckled when Biyombo signed for cheap with Charlotte.  As anticipated, he ended up putting up comparable numbers to Willie Cauley Stein.  This season, he once again put up per-36 numbers of 9 points, 13 rebounds, 2.6 blocks.  He once again had the best defensive rating on his team.

In 22 games as a starter, he averaged 7 points, 12.2 rebounds, 2 blocks with 55% shooting in 30 minutes.

His past 8 playoff games he's averaged 35.5 minutes.  He's averaged 8.8 points, 12.1 rebounds, 2.4 blocks.   Which, again... shouldn't surprise anyone.   Remarkably consistent in what he's been doing the past few seasons with both his strengths and weaknesses.

Where controversy arose with Biyombo was the comparisons to Ben Wallace.  Biyombo is only 23 years old (supposedly) and as we've seen, he is remarkably consistent in getting you 8-9 points, 12 boards and a few blocks per 36 minutes.   When Ben Wallace was 23 years old, he avearged 3.1 points, 4.8 rebounds, 1 block.   It actually wasn't until Wallace 5th season in Detroit (as a 26 year old), that he saw his minutes spike to 34.5 and started avearging 6.4 points, 13 rebounds, 2.3 blocks.   The comp I made over the Summer with Biyombo was that during Wallace's 4th season with Orlando, he averaged 4.8 points, 8.2 rebounds, 1.6 blocks in 24.2mpg... which was shockingly close to what Biyombo did in his 21 games as a starter in Charlotte.   If you look at Wallace's per-36 numbers, he was remarkably consistent in his ability to get you 6-9 points, 10-14 rebounds and 2-3 blocks per game.   What changed for Wallace was his role.  So naturally, it infuriated people when folks suggested that 22 year old Biyombo compared well with 25 year old Ben Wallace.   It was obviously a stretch to say Biyombo's best-case was a dominant defender like Wallace, but you had to wonder what a player with Biyombo's skillset could do if given significant minutes on a solid team.   Now we see... He's made major contributions to a 56 win team that is now tied 2-2 in the Eastern Conference Finals.   
^^This is a perfect example of someone cherry picking box score statistics in order to prove themselves correct.  Charlotte improved immensely this season and finally produced a decent offense for the 1st time in a decade.
Irrelevant.   Biyombo didn't have a significant role in their team last year.  If you paid attention, my point was that in the rare instances that MKW and Biyombo DID have a significant role, they won more.  I'm not cherry picking anything.   Obviously, if they failed with Biyombo as a starter and then succeeded without him a starter, you'd have a point.  But Charlotte played better with Biyombo in the rare instances he actually got the minutes.   Their best stretch of the season last year (winning 8 out of 9) happened with Biyombo as their starter.

I don't think we need to go into all the ways Charlotte has operated like a brain-dead franchise.  It's pretty established at this point.

As for this season with Toronto, Biyombo once again had the best defensive rating on the team.  They were 8-3 in the games he played at least 30 minutes.  Tiny sample size, but a greater win pace than the Raptors had with him playing less than 30.

Obviously with Biyombo you get what you are gonna get.  He's not a good offensive player.  He can rebound and defend rather well, though.  So if you need someone to rebound, defend and occasionally dunk, Biyombo is a fine option. 

« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 04:51:22 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: too bad we didn't sign Biyombo instead
« Reply #61 on: May 25, 2016, 04:47:54 PM »

Offline Big333223

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I love how Biyombo is playing this series. I love it so much.

I also think he's going to be signed to the worst contract in the NBA this summer. He's this year's Erick Dampier. He's playing awesome but we're seeing the best ball he'll ever play. He can get to this level again but this is his ceiling.
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Re: too bad we didn't sign Biyombo instead
« Reply #62 on: May 25, 2016, 05:09:38 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Biyombo is putting in work, no doubt! We still would be home fishing with him because our problem this season was the bigs scoring. None of them scored more than 10pts per and Biyombo isn't going to get more or even 10. We had a million bigs and game after game you would get 1-2 at a time being productive scoring.



I'm not a fan of Howard but that's a big we could have used. We can get by with lesser defenders than Howard but that consistent scoring could be huge. Just look at how much better we looked when Jerebko was hitting shots and stretched the floor against ATL. We need a big who can score some. If Sully could have given the 14-15pts from last season who knows how much better our regular season could have been and ultimately probably changed our standing and matchup.
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Re: too bad we didn't sign Biyombo instead
« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2016, 08:17:06 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

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Re: too bad we didn't sign Biyombo instead
« Reply #64 on: May 25, 2016, 10:23:43 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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The truth is that a player like Biyombo should not have been interested in signing with the Celtics last summer.  A young player perceived as a useful role player who is looking to prove himself on a short contract in the hopes of earning a bigger one should not want to be a Celtic because there is a strong probability that the playing time is not there.  You need someone more like Evan Turner, whose value was in the toilet.

If the Celtics are targeting any non-star free agents for this summer, they will be better off looking for guys who are at the same point in their career that Amir Johnson is, because those are the kind of players who could be seeking to join a deep team like the Celtics.
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Re: too bad we didn't sign Biyombo instead
« Reply #65 on: May 25, 2016, 10:32:27 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Toronto will cut Patterson lose and make sure they pay biyombo

prob 10-12 million a year. Well it could go up to 15

Expensive for a guy that is likely to come off the bench next season but can replace Val if injured (has happened quite a bit as of late) and also start the 4th (small ball)

Re: too bad we didn't sign Biyombo instead
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2016, 03:19:42 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Nobody knew that biyombo would improve that well

Literally nothing about this surprises me. 

I pointed out numerous times that Charlotte's best defensive lineup included Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and Biyombo.  Biyombo had the best defensive rating on the entire team.  It made no sense that they didn't play those guys more and just build an identity around defense.   When Biyombo was given the opportunity to start on Charlotte, he consistently contributed.  It's one of the many reasons I feel Charlotte is one of the two worst-run teams in the league.

Last year, for instance, in 21 games as a starter he averaged 6.8 points, 8.4 rebounds, 1.8 blocks with 55% shooting in 27mpg.  He was remarkably consistent in his ability to rebound and defend.  His defensive rating was consistently great.   His offense was bad, of course, but he was very clearly a (very cheap and attainable) option for rim protection. 

His per-36 minutes constantly showed a player who would get you 8-9 points, 12 rebounds and 3 blocks with 36 minutes.   And when he played 36+ minutes, he was remarkably consistent in backing up those per-36 numbers.

I got heckled when Biyombo signed for cheap with Charlotte.  As anticipated, he ended up putting up comparable numbers to Willie Cauley Stein.  This season, he once again put up per-36 numbers of 9 points, 13 rebounds, 2.6 blocks.  He once again had the best defensive rating on his team.

In 22 games as a starter, he averaged 7 points, 12.2 rebounds, 2 blocks with 55% shooting in 30 minutes.

His past 8 playoff games he's averaged 35.5 minutes.  He's averaged 8.8 points, 12.1 rebounds, 2.4 blocks.   Which, again... shouldn't surprise anyone.   Remarkably consistent in what he's been doing the past few seasons with both his strengths and weaknesses.

Where controversy arose with Biyombo was the comparisons to Ben Wallace.  Biyombo is only 23 years old (supposedly) and as we've seen, he is remarkably consistent in getting you 8-9 points, 12 boards and a few blocks per 36 minutes.   When Ben Wallace was 23 years old, he avearged 3.1 points, 4.8 rebounds, 1 block.   It actually wasn't until Wallace 5th season in Detroit (as a 26 year old), that he saw his minutes spike to 34.5 and started avearging 6.4 points, 13 rebounds, 2.3 blocks.   The comp I made over the Summer with Biyombo was that during Wallace's 4th season with Orlando, he averaged 4.8 points, 8.2 rebounds, 1.6 blocks in 24.2mpg... which was shockingly close to what Biyombo did in his 21 games as a starter in Charlotte.   If you look at Wallace's per-36 numbers, he was remarkably consistent in his ability to get you 6-9 points, 10-14 rebounds and 2-3 blocks per game.   What changed for Wallace was his role.  So naturally, it infuriated people when folks suggested that 22 year old Biyombo compared well with 25 year old Ben Wallace.   It was obviously a stretch to say Biyombo's best-case was a dominant defender like Wallace, but you had to wonder what a player with Biyombo's skillset could do if given significant minutes on a solid team.   Now we see... He's made major contributions to a 56 win team that is now tied 2-2 in the Eastern Conference Finals.   
^^This is a perfect example of someone cherry picking box score statistics in order to prove themselves correct.  Charlotte improved immensely this season and finally produced a decent offense for the 1st time in a decade.
Irrelevant.   Biyombo didn't have a significant role in their team last year.  If you paid attention, my point was that in the rare instances that MKW and Biyombo DID have a significant role, they won more.  I'm not cherry picking anything.   Obviously, if they failed with Biyombo as a starter and then succeeded without him a starter, you'd have a point.  But Charlotte played better with Biyombo in the rare instances he actually got the minutes.   Their best stretch of the season last year (winning 8 out of 9) happened with Biyombo as their starter.

I don't think we need to go into all the ways Charlotte has operated like a brain-dead franchise.  It's pretty established at this point.

As for this season with Toronto, Biyombo once again had the best defensive rating on the team.  They were 8-3 in the games he played at least 30 minutes.  Tiny sample size, but a greater win pace than the Raptors had with him playing less than 30.

Obviously with Biyombo you get what you are gonna get.  He's not a good offensive player.  He can rebound and defend rather well, though.  So if you need someone to rebound, defend and occasionally dunk, Biyombo is a fine option.



 Gotta back up Larbrd here. I specifically remember him advocating  signing Bismack.

Re: too bad we didn't sign Biyombo instead
« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2016, 07:10:15 AM »

Offline TA9

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Michael Scotto: Bismack Biyombo has a $3 million player option this summer. Seven executives told me he can earn $12-16 million per season when he opts out.

That's a bit crazy if you ask me. Imagine such a limited player (offensively that is) being able to score a $16 million contract per season :o
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Re: too bad we didn't sign Biyombo instead
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2016, 07:17:29 AM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Quote
Michael Scotto: Bismack Biyombo has a $3 million player option this summer. Seven executives told me he can earn $12-16 million per season when he opts out.

That's a bit crazy if you ask me. Imagine such a limited player (offensively that is) being able to score a $16 million contract per season :o
The sad part is there is always going to be that one team that does offer him that much. Good for Biyombo though. Gotta cash in on his playoff performance.

Re: too bad we didn't sign Biyombo instead
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2016, 07:19:08 AM »

Offline TA9

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Michael Scotto: Bismack Biyombo has a $3 million player option this summer. Seven executives told me he can earn $12-16 million per season when he opts out.

That's a bit crazy if you ask me. Imagine such a limited player (offensively that is) being able to score a $16 million contract per season :o
The sad part is there is always going to be that one team that does offer him that much. Good for Biyombo though. Gotta cash in on his playoff performance.
That's true, and you can only shake your head when it happens. Hopefully, Ainge is smart enough to resist the temptation to offer him such a contract ;D
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Re: too bad we didn't sign Biyombo instead
« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2016, 10:22:50 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Signing Biyombo last summer wouldn't have made long-term sense.  Unless you're willing to match what he would receive in free agency if he has a good season, you end up developing a player for another team if he performs well.  On the other hand, I can see a path towards Amir Johnson being a useful Celtic on a reasonable contract four years from now.

Even if you think he's going to do well, a player at Biyombo's point in his career is probably not the right target for the Celtics if he insists on a one-year deal with a player option for a second year.
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