We have a GREAT SHOT to sign Horford this summer per Wojnarowski

[Chief]

If you let Amir walk and David Lee's contract is off the books, you are looking at the same amount of money we spent at that position this year. So would you rather have Lee and Amir or Hortford?

[Evantime34]

I'd happily sign Horford to a max contract, there isn't a better way we could conceivably use our cap space.

There are at least a few ways, aren't there?

1) A trade for a better, younger player than Horford without having to send out any contracts attached to good players from our end.

2) Saving it for a better free agent in 2017 when the free agent class will be deeper and better, potentially including the best free agent from this upcoming class if Durant opts for a 1 + 1 contract this summer.

3) Not having an inferior version of Horford for nearly 30 million a year in 2019 and 2020 taking up an enormous percentage of our cap space when the exploded cap will have retreated back to semi-normalcy.

In one we are giving up assets to get a player. I'd rather have horford without giving up any assets. That's besides the point though, because we can sign Horford and trade for a star to move into our remaining cap space. Horford is a guy who will help a star agree to a trade here. He is the Ray Allen to a stars kg, the star is less likely to come here without him. Even if he declined near the end of the deal his ability to increase our franchises value by making it a destination is worth it.

In business when one company acquires another they usually pay a premium above the valuation of the compamy for the extra value the acquired company provides to the whole (synergy). Adding Horford brings you extra value in addition to his performance and makes him worth the full Max.


Almost every contract the Celtics sign is followed (or preempted) by posts on here about how Boston is overpaying. It seems like Celtics bloggers want to save the cap space for elite players that wouldn't sign here. Those type of players would be more likely to sign here if we first added Horford which makes him with every penny of a Max.

[Roy H.]

I'm with ET34: I would gladly sign Horford to the max. Our payroll is in healthy shape. We can easily absorb a max player, and Horford's style of play and demeanor fit our team well.

[Vermont Green]

Horford is a fine player but statistically, he is the second best on his team right now (behind Milsap).  Horford will be 30 in June so the contract will run for ages 30-34 years.  That would be fine if I was absolutely sure about the pectoral muscle injury (which I guess doctors could assess).

I see Horford going to a more established team.  The Celtics are doing great (better than I predicted) but I don't feel Horford puts up over the top or is enough of a player to attract someone like Durant.  Our big two would be Thomas and Horford. 

It would certainly be nice to get him without giving up anything but it just doesn't feel like he is the best match for us or us for him.

[Dino Pitino]

I'd happily sign Horford to a max contract, there isn't a better way we could conceivably use our cap space.

There are at least a few ways, aren't there?

1) A trade for a better, younger player than Horford without having to send out any contracts attached to good players from our end.

2) Saving it for a better free agent in 2017 when the free agent class will be deeper and better, potentially including the best free agent from this upcoming class if Durant opts for a 1 + 1 contract this summer.

3) Not having an inferior version of Horford for nearly 30 million a year in 2019 and 2020 taking up an enormous percentage of our cap space when the exploded cap will have retreated back to semi-normalcy.

In one we are giving up assets to get a player. I'd rather have horford without giving up any assets. That's besides the point though, because we can sign Horford and trade for a star to move into our remaining cap space.

Not besides the point? If we don't use the cap space on him, we can trade for two stars without losing any players. Those lost players would count as assets, too. Depending on how much better and younger, and depending on which current players, and depending on which draft picks: I'd rather have (Better Younger Player X + Better Younger Player Y + Current Players A and B) than (Horford + Better Younger Player Y + Draft Picks Traded for Better Younger Player X)...but honestly, math isn't my strong suit, so I might be missing something there. Point is, it's conceivable the cap space could be used better that way.

Horford is a guy who will help a star agree to a trade here. He is the Ray Allen to a stars kg, the star is less likely to come here without him. Even if he declined near the end of the deal his ability to increase our franchises value by making it a destination is worth it.

In business when one company acquires another they usually pay a premium above the valuation of the compamy for the extra value the acquired company provides to the whole (synergy). Adding Horford brings you extra value in addition to his performance and makes him worth the full Max.

I'm still skeptical that Horford has that kind of pull. Only reason I think he might draw Durant is that there are murmurs that Durant in particular likes Horford. If Horford were that kind of star magnet, then why didn't Atlanta draw a bigger star than Millsap? (Not that Millsap isn't really good, but he wasn't quite a star when he signed there.)

Almost every contract the Celtics sign is followed (or preempted) by posts on here about how Boston is overpaying. It seems like Celtics bloggers want to save the cap space for elite players that wouldn't sign here. Those type of players would be more likely to sign here if we first added Horford which makes him with every penny of a Max.

The thing with any 2016 free agents that get reflexively dismissed as overpays by people here might be that, aside from Durant, those people would probably be right, because this free agent class stinks and the contracts that'll be handed out will be huge. The only player this summer worth trying to use Horford as free agent bait for is Durant. In the summer of 2017, if trends continue, Horford will probably be an even dimmer attraction.

[mef730]

I'd happily sign Horford to a max contract, there isn't a better way we could conceivably use our cap space.

There are at least a few ways, aren't there?

1) A trade for a better, younger player than Horford without having to send out any contracts attached to good players from our end.

2) Saving it for a better free agent in 2017 when the free agent class will be deeper and better, potentially including the best free agent from this upcoming class if Durant opts for a 1 + 1 contract this summer.

3) Not having an inferior version of Horford for nearly 30 million a year in 2019 and 2020 taking up an enormous percentage of our cap space when the exploded cap will have retreated back to semi-normalcy.

In one we are giving up assets to get a player. I'd rather have horford without giving up any assets. That's besides the point though, because we can sign Horford and trade for a star to move into our remaining cap space. Horford is a guy who will help a star agree to a trade here. He is the Ray Allen to a stars kg, the star is less likely to come here without him. Even if he declined near the end of the deal his ability to increase our franchises value by making it a destination is worth it.

In business when one company acquires another they usually pay a premium above the valuation of the compamy for the extra value the acquired company provides to the whole (synergy). Adding Horford brings you extra value in addition to his performance and makes him worth the full Max.


Almost every contract the Celtics sign is followed (or preempted) by posts on here about how Boston is overpaying. It seems like Celtics bloggers want to save the cap space for elite players that wouldn't sign here. Those type of players would be more likely to sign here if we first added Horford which makes him with every penny of a Max.

But in business, you overpay because you anticipate that the acquisition will grow in value, rather than shrink. Horford is peaking.

There's also no limit on how much money you can spend in business, other than your own capital resources. With a fixed ceiling in place, Horford takes up the space that another "acquisition" could fill.

Having said that, I don't know what I would do with the money otherwise this year, but the 2017 class looks ridiculous.

Mike

[mahonedog88]

Luckily, Horford feels like one of these guys that actually would sign somewhere not based on the weather, or the size of the market, which so many of them do in this league.

And I totally buy that it was Horford that IT was talking about during all-star weekend when he said "a player" asked him about playing in Boston.

Giving him a big time max contract is certainly a risk for a player like Horford, given his age and the injury bug hitting him a little more than we'd like lately.  But given it's virtually impossible to get better than average free agents to come here, beggars can't be choosers, so it's a risk I'm willing to take.

[PAOBoston]

I'd sign Horford to a 4 year deal in a heartbeat. He's a really good player that's still in his prime. He would be a good fit on this team. From all accounts, he files the leader type mold the C's value in the locker room.

[Evantime34]

I'd happily sign Horford to a max contract, there isn't a better way we could conceivably use our cap space.

There are at least a few ways, aren't there?

1) A trade for a better, younger player than Horford without having to send out any contracts attached to good players from our end.

2) Saving it for a better free agent in 2017 when the free agent class will be deeper and better, potentially including the best free agent from this upcoming class if Durant opts for a 1 + 1 contract this summer.

3) Not having an inferior version of Horford for nearly 30 million a year in 2019 and 2020 taking up an enormous percentage of our cap space when the exploded cap will have retreated back to semi-normalcy.

In one we are giving up assets to get a player. I'd rather have horford without giving up any assets. That's besides the point though, because we can sign Horford and trade for a star to move into our remaining cap space.

Not besides the point? If we don't use the cap space on him, we can trade for two stars without losing any players. Those lost players would count as assets, too. Depending on how much better and younger, and depending on which current players, and depending on which draft picks: I'd rather have (Better Younger Player X + Better Younger Player Y + Current Players A and B) than (Horford + Better Younger Player Y + Draft Picks Traded for Better Younger Player X)...but honestly, math isn't my strong suit, so I might be missing something there. Point is, it's conceivable the cap space could be used better that way.

Horford is a guy who will help a star agree to a trade here. He is the Ray Allen to a stars kg, the star is less likely to come here without him. Even if he declined near the end of the deal his ability to increase our franchises value by making it a destination is worth it.

In business when one company acquires another they usually pay a premium above the valuation of the compamy for the extra value the acquired company provides to the whole (synergy). Adding Horford brings you extra value in addition to his performance and makes him worth the full Max.

I'm still skeptical that Horford has that kind of pull. Only reason I think he might draw Durant is that there are murmurs that Durant in particular likes Horford. If Horford were that kind of star magnet, then why didn't Atlanta draw a bigger star than Millsap? (Not that Millsap isn't really good, but he wasn't quite a star when he signed there.)

Almost every contract the Celtics sign is followed (or preempted) by posts on here about how Boston is overpaying. It seems like Celtics bloggers want to save the cap space for elite players that wouldn't sign here. Those type of players would be more likely to sign here if we first added Horford which makes him with every penny of a Max.

The thing with any 2016 free agents that get reflexively dismissed as overpays by people here might be that, aside from Durant, those people would probably be right, because this free agent class stinks and the contracts that'll be handed out will be huge. The only player this summer worth trying to use Horford as free agent bait for is Durant. In the summer of 2017, if trends continue, Horford will probably be an even dimmer attraction.

I don't agree that we could trade for two stars without giving up any players. We won't be able to trade for stars using just picks, we will need to include quality young players in a trade IMO.

Celticsblog has a history of dismissing every free agent except the elite guys as being overpaid. Maybe they end up being right about some of the 2016 free agents, but I'm just pointing out how often this board has taken this stance on a quality player and ended up being wrong.

Horford is on Durant's shortlist because he's a very good player who does the little things well. Durant respects Horford's game, and if KD does it wouldn't be surprising if other had as well.

[loco_91]

This would be awesome. I would definitely sign Horford to the max. He hasn't shown any statistical evidence of decline the last couple years, as his PER, TS%, USG, OWS, and DWS are all at or above his career averages. His rebounding and free throw rate have slipped, but he's made up for it by increasing his blocks and assists while cutting turnovers. He's also begun to take and make 3's this year (23% of FGA, makes 34%).

Horford is the type of super-skilled big man who won't decline too quickly, like Pau Gasol or Tim Duncan. Even at age 29 he's still adding stuff to his game-- he's been surprisingly successful shooting the 3, and I'm especially impressed by the fact that he's brought his TOV% down under 9% the last two years, after averaging ~12% his first 7 years in the league. We should pursue him aggressively in FA.

[Fafnir]

A four year max deal for Horford is one I'd happily sign. It has risks but he's a all-star caliber player, how do you pass on that when your cap space is as clean as ours will be?

A max contract isn't nearly as scary as it used to be when they were for 6 or 7 years.

[PaulAllen]

A soon to be 30 year old undersized center who wants max money??
DA can not be that stupid...
Im sure its just another RUMOR..

[Fafnir]

Also if we don't get Horford and the Cavs don't win the title I think we go all in on Love again, its going to happen just a matter of if the Cavs want to play ball.

[PaulAllen]

Also if we don't get Horford and the Cavs don't win the title I think we go all in on Love again, its going to happen just a matter of if the Cavs want to play ball.

Something is bound to happen to that team when they dont win a championship this year... Kyrie does not like playing second dog to Lebron...

[Fafnir]

Also if we don't get Horford and the Cavs don't win the title I think we go all in on Love again, its going to happen just a matter of if the Cavs want to play ball.

Something is bound to happen to that team when they dont win a championship this year... Kyrie does not like playing second dog to Lebron...

I think they'll try to trade either Kyrie or Love, but they might get gun shy based on the offers given.