Author Topic: Getting destroyed in the middle all year  (Read 9810 times)

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Getting destroyed in the middle all year
« on: February 23, 2016, 12:04:54 PM »

Offline PaulAllen

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While I like that DA stayed pat with the BK pick he really needed some help in the middle..
While everyone is saying we need another star or one "big" piece away I wholeheartedly disagree..
The Celtics need a defense presence in the middle... They rank near thew bottom in rebounds, second chance points, blocks.. Lately they have been giving up 20 plus games to Towns,Jokic, Favors,Jordan,Monroe, Cousins in the past 6 games... Nerleans Noel could probably been had at a decent price...

This team scores with efficiency ranks fourth in the NBA in scoring but wow all this team has is either a stretch 7' who cant defend or and undersized center who relies on pushing his weight..

Re: Getting destroyed in the middle all year
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2016, 12:13:33 PM »

Offline Chief

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Free Mickey!


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Re: Getting destroyed in the middle all year
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2016, 12:16:47 PM »

Offline PaulAllen

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You are right because he does actually play defense and is a natural shotblocker...

However he is another undersized big (6'8") who will get pushed around by the likes a guys like Towns, Jordan, Drummond etc

Re: Getting destroyed in the middle all year
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2016, 12:19:28 PM »

Offline heyvik

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You are right because he does actually play defense and is a natural shotblocker...

However he is another undersized big (6'8") who will get pushed around by the likes a guys like Towns, Jordan, Drummond etc

we will get dominated in the playoffs by teams who have a dominant C - Detroit, Toronto come to mind.

Re: Getting destroyed in the middle all year
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2016, 12:21:18 PM »

Offline PaulAllen

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Yea even Mozgov had huge games against the Celtics last year..

Re: Getting destroyed in the middle all year
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2016, 12:21:46 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Putting that presence in the middle might not be a net gain for the entire team if that guy isn't a dynamic enough player. If we had Noel, would we be winning less due to the harm to our offense? Would we have gone 2-4 in stead of 3-3?

And if your response is that Noel is young and will improve -- well, the OP seems very short term focused. Long term, we need an elite talent more than anything else.

I think we should also realize that it takes a very different defender to match up with Towns than to match up with Jordan or to match up with Monroe. In fact, you don't even match anyone up with Jordan. You mostly need good rotations for Jordan since he can't initiate his own offense.

I do find it very disappointing that Sully can match up better with the bigs. Are we missing KO's defensive magic?

Re: Getting destroyed in the middle all year
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2016, 12:24:07 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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One thing to note, the era of small ball and no real centers in the NBA is over. We've had a resurgence of big man talent in the past two seasons, so we need a legit defensive center or two if we want to contend at some point.

Re: Getting destroyed in the middle all year
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2016, 12:29:36 PM »

Offline PaulAllen

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Putting that presence in the middle might not be a net gain for the entire team if that guy isn't a dynamic enough player. If we had Noel, would we be winning less due to the harm to our offense? Would we have gone 2-4 in stead of 3-3?

And if your response is that Noel is young and will improve -- well, the OP seems very short term focused. Long term, we need an elite talent more than anything else.

I think we should also realize that it takes a very different defender to match up with Towns than to match up with Jordan or to match up with Monroe. In fact, you don't even match anyone up with Jordan. You mostly need good rotations for Jordan since he can't initiate his own offense.

I do find it very disappointing that Sully can match up better with the bigs. Are we missing KO's defensive magic?


Well like i mentioned almost all of the opposing leading scorers against the Celtics were bigs... Also if you look into the stat lines they have staggering rebound (both offensive/defensive) numbers.. I dont know how much better the team would be but with a strong defensive back court and wing the sky is the limit... Watching these games it almost looks like shooting fish in a barrel the amount of put backs that are given on a nightly basis ... Also put to note the Celtics have lost a lot of close games... Just think how many more wins if say put backs were down 50%? maybe 8-10 more wins or so ?


Noel is a 20 year old who in spite of injuries has an extremely high ceiling..
KO can not defend in the middle... He can create turnovers from time to time but you can not have him play straight up against real centers..

Re: Getting destroyed in the middle all year
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2016, 12:30:49 PM »

Offline PaulAllen

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One thing to note, the era of small ball and no real centers in the NBA is over. We've had a resurgence of big man talent in the past two seasons, so we need a legit defensive center or two if we want to contend at some point.

Agree... and it will get stronger

Re: Getting destroyed in the middle all year
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2016, 12:30:52 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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I think we will add this type of player next season and if we don't we will add enough skill to the 4 and 5 spots to make up for the lack of a shot blocker.

Dwight would solve this problem in the offseason provided he is willing to take a short term deal.

Horford doesn't solve our problem in the middle in terms of rebounding or rim protection but he would still be a big upgrade. My hope is to add Love and Horford who would provide enough scoring and rebounding to cover up for their rim protection issues.
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Re: Getting destroyed in the middle all year
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2016, 12:36:42 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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Olynyk is really underrated in this regard not because he is a beast inside but because he pulls a big way from the rim which matters a lot.  It hurts the other teams defensive rebounding (and allows other C's to get offensive boards) and provides an angle for our guys to attack the paint against less resistance.

Yeah, it would be great to have a physical big to match others.  But Olynyk gets at that problem in a round about way.

While he's hurt, we are forced to watch Zeller not even be able to catch passes.

Ultimately last night if we did rebound a bit better and play harder and tighten up on a few possessions, we could have won this game even giving up that disadvantage inside.  This team is regularly at that disadvantage with a winning record.
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Re: Getting destroyed in the middle all year
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2016, 12:52:08 PM »

Offline Diggles

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While I like that DA stayed pat with the BK pick he really needed some help in the middle..
While everyone is saying we need another star or one "big" piece away I wholeheartedly disagree..
The Celtics need a defense presence in the middle... They rank near thew bottom in rebounds, second chance points, blocks.. Lately they have been giving up 20 plus games to Towns,Jokic, Favors,Jordan,Monroe, Cousins in the past 6 games... Nerleans Noel could probably been had at a decent price...

This team scores with efficiency ranks fourth in the NBA in scoring but wow all this team has is either a stretch 7' who cant defend or and undersized center who relies on pushing his weight..



Reggie EVENS is a beast in the middle...  Not the best shot blocker, but has a little Perk in him.   Hard fouls and a mean streak.   Get him...
Diggles

Re: Getting destroyed in the middle all year
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2016, 01:10:37 PM »

Offline PaulAllen

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Olynyk is really underrated in this regard not because he is a beast inside but because he pulls a big way from the rim which matters a lot.  It hurts the other teams defensive rebounding (and allows other C's to get offensive boards) and provides an angle for our guys to attack the paint against less resistance.

Yeah, it would be great to have a physical big to match others.  But Olynyk gets at that problem in a round about way.

While he's hurt, we are forced to watch Zeller not even be able to catch passes.

Ultimately last night if we did rebound a bit better and play harder and tighten up on a few possessions, we could have won this game even giving up that disadvantage inside.  This team is regularly at that disadvantage with a winning record.

While KO can do certain things defensively he is certainly not the answer... again the Celtics have been getting beat all year in the middle..

Re: Getting destroyed in the middle all year
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2016, 01:23:38 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Yup.  The Celts are pretty good in a lot of areas, but they've got very little going on inside.  That's probably the biggest reason why they're likely to get smashed in the playoffs.  Playoff series are won in the trenches.
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Re: Getting destroyed in the middle all year
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2016, 01:26:28 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Meh, a lot of exaggeration around here. But certainly, something to address. Stevens' penchant for going small doesn't help matters much, overplaying Sullinger in those units doesn't help matters much since he sucks on them. But if the other bigs are playing like crap, what can you do?

I see a lot of finger pointing last night to Sullinger around the blog, yet there's a distinctive lack of mention to the poor job Amir (who's primary assignment was Towns) and Zeller (who is the only player with the actual required size to defend opposing centers) did.

I mean, you also had some plays in which Sullinger was the only player boxing-out surrounded by other 3 white jerseys with no man on them. Before crying about lack of length to defend, there are so many small details that can be corrected to begin with and go from there.

Towns is a monster though. As for all the crying about how KO would've made the difference defensively, I think it's a lot of BS. Towns and Dieng are simply bad match-ups for us, with or without KO. They played very well this year against us prior to this one.

I'll also point out that Towns had big games against Toronto, New York, and Chicago in the past couple of weeks... three teams who don't suffer from length issues at all.

At some point people need to stop extrapolating things from single games, but further than that, recognize how dominant and legit talent Towns is.