Poll: Who would make the Celtics better Noel or Okafor

[guava_wrench]

I don't have strong opinions on this, but it does seem that Okafor has shown that he can already have some NBA success at what he is good at, even if he is horrible at some other things. Has Noel shown already that he is a force on defense the way Okafor is a force on offense?

None of this means that we know what the two players will be like in 3 years. It is also interesting that there isn't much of a gap in their PER scores. I do feel like Okafor has a better chance of becoming something special, but that doesn't answer the team impact question and there is always the possibility Okafor gums up the offense wherever he goes.

[jambr380]

In response to the question, I chose Noel, as the Cs could use a dominating defensive presence down low who can also finish with an easy dunk.

In response to who I would trade the Brooklyn pick for, I probably go with Okafor due to his slightly higher ceiling and additional two years of rookie contract (the latter is huge).

[Celtics18]

I honestly worry more about Okafor's passing ability than his defense.  He needs to learn to become effective at finding open guys with all the touches he's going to need and all the attention he's going to draw.

I like guys like Nik Vucevic and Greg Monroe because they are capable and willing passers.  They don't end up gobbling up as many possessions as Okafor does.

As talented as Jah is, the Sixers are significantly worse offensively when he is on the floor than when he is out of the game. 


All his flaws can be worked on, he's still real young.  I'd just rather have someone else if I had my druthers . . . like Nerlens Noel.

[Evantime34]

I honestly worry more about Okafor's passing ability than his defense.  He needs to learn to become effective at finding open guys with all the touches he's going to need and all the attention he's going to draw.

I like guys like Nik Vucevic and Greg Monroe because they are capable and willing passers.  They don't end up gobbling up as many possessions as Okafor does.

As talented as Jah is, the Sixers are significantly worse offensively when he is on the floor than when he is out of the game. 


All his flaws can be worked on, he's still real young.  I'd just rather have someone else if I had my druthers . . . like Nerlens Noel.

I think his lack of passing has a lot to do with his teammates and how they aren't winning. He showed to be a willing and capable passer at Duke and I think that will come back once he is on a different team.

IMO he's going to be significantly better than Monroe or Vucevic overall.

[Who]

I honestly worry more about Okafor's passing ability than his defense.  He needs to learn to become effective at finding open guys with all the touches he's going to need and all the attention he's going to draw.

I like guys like Nik Vucevic and Greg Monroe because they are capable and willing passers.  They don't end up gobbling up as many possessions as Okafor does.

As talented as Jah is, the Sixers are significantly worse offensively when he is on the floor than when he is out of the game. 


All his flaws can be worked on, he's still real young.  I'd just rather have someone else if I had my druthers . . . like Nerlens Noel.

I think his lack of passing has a lot to do with his teammates and how they aren't winning. He showed to be a willing and capable passer at Duke and I think that will come back once he is on a different team.

IMO he's going to be significantly better than Monroe or Vucevic overall.

Okafor is a much passer than Vucevic was at a young age.

It's only in the last year or so (24 / 25 years old) that Vucevic has been even an average passing center. Before that, Vucevic was a hindrance to Orlando's offense because he could not be relied upon to make basic passes from the high post. Orlando's offense would freeze whenever they passed Vuc (or other Magic big men) the ball.

Okafor is having the same problems as just about every low post scorer rookie has had coming out of college to the NBA. Double teams are much quicker in the NBA. He is getting doubled by much taller longer more athletic guards and forwards. It's harder to make passes. NBA teams are better at mixing defensive coverages and giving post players different looks. It takes time to adapt to that. All young big men go through this. All low post scorers. It's very rare when a low post scorer comes in and is a good passer out of the post as a rookie. It's just so different in the NBA from college.

Then you add in all the spacing problems Philly has gotten and that that Noel - Okafor partnership is just downright terrible for either one of them on offense.

Okafor showed solid passing in college and he is right were he is supposed to be in terms of his development (as a passer) as an NBA rookie.

I see nothing to be worried about in terms of Okafor's passing at this moment in time.

[Celtics18]

I honestly worry more about Okafor's passing ability than his defense.  He needs to learn to become effective at finding open guys with all the touches he's going to need and all the attention he's going to draw.

I like guys like Nik Vucevic and Greg Monroe because they are capable and willing passers.  They don't end up gobbling up as many possessions as Okafor does.

As talented as Jah is, the Sixers are significantly worse offensively when he is on the floor than when he is out of the game. 


All his flaws can be worked on, he's still real young.  I'd just rather have someone else if I had my druthers . . . like Nerlens Noel.

I think his lack of passing has a lot to do with his teammates and how they aren't winning. He showed to be a willing and capable passer at Duke and I think that will come back once he is on a different team.

IMO he's going to be significantly better than Monroe or Vucevic overall.

I won't disagree that he's ridiculously talented.  He could definitely end up proving me wrong. 

Consider a completely hypothetical situation where Nerlens Noel ends up becoming a super role player on a legitimate championship contender, even winning one at some point, with him being the defensive anchor and a good pick and roll finished and rim runner, but never a top level scorer.

On the other hand, Okafor ends up scoring 20 point a game and getting close to 10 rebounds, but never plays for a winner, maybe makes one or two playoffs along the way as the top dog on a bottom seeded, first round exit team.

Given those two hypothetical futures, who do we ultimately say had the better career?

[Who]

It took Tim Duncan about half a season to get used to passing out of the post in the NBA. That was after FOUR YEARS of college basketball. Hakeem Olajuwon was a black hole early in his career. Ewing was a bit better than Olajuwon but not by much. Shaq led the league in turnovers his rookie year. Mutombo was a lousy passer (16.6ppg rookie year). Mourning was probably worse than all of them (one assist a game despite 21ppg and 3.0tpg).

Most young post players go through a period of adaption as a passer when they come into the NBA. The difference between the size and athleticism of NBA players vs NCAA players is HUGE. It takes time to adapt. It takes experience. This is normal.

It's the big men (post scorers) that are strong passers from Day One that are an oddity. An rarity. Now you don't see that very often. But bigs who struggle as rookies as passer? That is normal.

J.Okafor isn't behind in his development (as a passer). He is right where you would expect him to be given his skill-set (high usage low post scorer).

[pearljammer10]

I think with a young team like this you go with the guy with higher all around potential and that's Okafor. Noel fits our needs pretty perfectly right now, but we have two of three years left to let some guys develop. I'd see what Okafor could bring us and how he could develop with us in that time.

[KG Living Legend]

It took Tim Duncan about half a season to get used to passing out of the post in the NBA. That was after FOUR YEARS of college basketball. Hakeem Olajuwon was a black hole early in his career. Ewing was a bit better than Olajuwon but not by much. Shaq led the league in turnovers his rookie year. Mutombo was a lousy passer (16.6ppg rookie year). Mourning was probably worse than all of them (one assist a game despite 21ppg and 3.0tpg).

Most young post players go through a period of adaption as a passer when they come into the NBA. The difference between the size and athleticism of NBA players vs NCAA players is HUGE. It takes time to adapt. It takes experience. This is normal.

It's the big men (post scorers) that are strong passers from Day One that are an oddity. An rarity. Now you don't see that very often. But bigs who struggle as rookies as passer? That is normal.

J.Okafor isn't behind in his development (as a passer). He is right where you would expect him to be given his skill-set (high usage low post scorer).

 Excellent point Who, Tp.

 Okafor was a very good passer at Duke and overall blows me away with his Basketball IQ, especially on offense. His head fakes hesitations are masterful for anyone let alone a 20 year old.

[Surferdad]

In response to the question, I chose Noel, as the Cs could use a dominating defensive presence down low who can also finish with an easy dunk.

In response to who I would trade the Brooklyn pick for, I probably go with Okafor due to his slightly higher ceiling and additional two years of rookie contract (the latter is huge).

Ditto to all of this. I chose Noel because this team is branding itself as a defensive nightmare for other teams. However, I would not trade the BKN pick for him.

[wdleehi]

It took Tim Duncan about half a season to get used to passing out of the post in the NBA. That was after FOUR YEARS of college basketball. Hakeem Olajuwon was a black hole early in his career. Ewing was a bit better than Olajuwon but not by much. Shaq led the league in turnovers his rookie year. Mutombo was a lousy passer (16.6ppg rookie year). Mourning was probably worse than all of them (one assist a game despite 21ppg and 3.0tpg).

Most young post players go through a period of adaption as a passer when they come into the NBA. The difference between the size and athleticism of NBA players vs NCAA players is HUGE. It takes time to adapt. It takes experience. This is normal.

It's the big men (post scorers) that are strong passers from Day One that are an oddity. An rarity. Now you don't see that very often. But bigs who struggle as rookies as passer? That is normal.

J.Okafor isn't behind in his development (as a passer). He is right where you would expect him to be given his skill-set (high usage low post scorer).

 Excellent point Who, Tp.

 Okafor was a very good passer at Duke and overall blows me away with his Basketball IQ, especially on offense. His head fakes hesitations are masterful for anyone let alone a 20 year old.

Not to mention who does he have to pass to?