Yes or No Bradley + Nets pick for Okafor

[max215]

https://youtu.be/RXIZEAo9Fec


 Great Stuff here. Cousins VS Okafor 10 days ago. Cousins defensive effort is pathetic, watch just the first three times Okafor scores on cousins, DMC doesn't even put a hand up. Horrible effort.

 Cousins tries to dunk on him at 3 minutes in, Okafor challenges him, they don't call a foul and DMC misses badly.

 I think you have a better HOPE of teaching Okafor to put his freaking hand up when the other guy is shooting than DMC. They both vould be labled cancers, however DMC is the one guy I actually would pass on given the price tag.

Funny thing is that when DMC tries, he's a really good defensive player. Okafor is just hopeless.

[Who]

I wouldn't concentrate too much on J.Okafor's advanced stats. Durant's advanced stats sucked when he was a rookie too. Durant was one of the worst defensive players in the league. Durant was a prolific scorer like J.Okafor but his scoring efficiency was below average and about the same as J.Okafor's is.

One of the big +/- stat guys at the time was attacking Durant a lot and saying stuff. I can't remember what exactly -- maybe something like, not only is Durant not a #1 pick, he doesn't even deserve to be a first rounder. Saying Durant was one of the worst players in the league. Saying how he wouldn't want Durant on his team.

J.Okafor's advanced stats will improve considerably over the next few years. He is clearly a very gifted offensive player. His defense -- I expect will still be below average but it won't be a colossally disgraceful as it is right now. I expect Okafor's rebounding to improve some as well. Most young bigs improve their defensive rebounding as they get older. Improve on their fundamentals and boxing out.

[KG Living Legend]

 Nope On Brook Lopez. His handles are almost guard like he sriously handles it better than Avery Bradley. The jumpshot is coming, great form, good free throw shooter he will develop Duncan range IMO.

 He's more polished on Offense than Tim Duncan at the same point in their careers. Think about that. Duncan AVg 4 blocks per game in his college career, that's why Duncan goes down as one of the greatest bigs ever.

 Okafor Shooting percentages where actually way better than Duncan's.

[KG Living Legend]

I wouldn't concentrate too much on J.Okafor's advanced stats. Durant's advanced stats sucked when he was a rookie too. Durant was one of the worst defensive players in the league. Durant was a prolific scorer like J.Okafor but his scoring efficiency was below average and about the same as J.Okafor's is.

One of the big +/- stat guys at the time was attacking Durant a lot and saying stuff. I can't remember what exactly -- maybe something like, not only is Durant not a #1 pick, he doesn't even deserve to be a first rounder. Saying Durant was one of the worst players in the league. Saying how he wouldn't want Durant on his team.

J.Okafor's advanced stats will improve considerably over the next few years. He is clearly a very gifted offensive player. His defense -- I expect will still be below average but it won't be a colossally disgraceful as it is right now. I expect Okafor's rebounding to improve some as well. Most young bigs improve their defensive rebounding as they get older. Improve on their fundamentals and boxing out.

 Thank you WHo TP. People really hard on this punk Giant kid playing on the worst team in a long tome with ZERO leadership. Have some foresight and picture him on The Celtics! Yes Sirrr!!!

[crimson_stallion]

I wouldn't concentrate too much on J.Okafor's advanced stats. Durant's advanced stats sucked when he was a rookie too. Durant was one of the worst defensive players in the league. Durant was a prolific scorer like J.Okafor but his scoring efficiency was below average and about the same as J.Okafor's is.

One of the big +/- stat guys at the time was attacking Durant a lot and saying stuff. I can't remember what exactly -- maybe something like, not only is Durant not a #1 pick, he doesn't even deserve to be a first rounder. Saying Durant was one of the worst players in the league.

J.Okafor's advanced stats will improve considerably over the next few years. He is clearly a very gifted offensive player. His defense -- I expect will still be below average but it won't be a colossally disgraceful as it is right now. I expect Okafor's rebounding to improve some as well. Most young bigs improve their defensive rebounding as they get older. Improve on their fundamentals and boxing out.

The difference is that from day one, Durant always had elite athleticism and offensive versatility on his side.

He could always score in a variety of ways (midrange, three, getting to the basket, getting to the line, etc) and he was always a good passer and an outstanding ball handler. He always had the tools to be an elite offensive player, it was just a matter of developing those tools.

Also he always had the physical tools (length, lateral mobility, etc) to become a solid defensive player.

Okafor by comparison is very much like Al Jefferson in that he does have excellent length, but he is completely lacking in anything resembling lateral mobility.  He's horribly slow moving side to side, to the point where he looks like Jabba the Hutt in quicksand. 

Also offensively Okafor also lacks anything resembling the versatility Durant had.  His post game really is all he has right now.  Maybe he'll add to that in other ways, but looking at his similar guys have fared in the past (Lopez, Jefferson, etc) I wouldn't bet on him ever being good enough offensively to offset his defensive problems. 

[KG Living Legend]

https://youtu.be/RXIZEAo9Fec


 Great Stuff here. Cousins VS Okafor 10 days ago. Cousins defensive effort is pathetic, watch just the first three times Okafor scores on cousins, DMC doesn't even put a hand up. Horrible effort.

 Cousins tries to dunk on him at 3 minutes in, Okafor challenges him, they don't call a foul and DMC misses badly.

 I think you have a better HOPE of teaching Okafor to put his freaking hand up when the other guy is shooting than DMC. They both vould be labled cancers, however DMC is the one guy I actually would pass on given the price tag.

Funny thing is that when DMC tries, he's a really good defensive player. Okafor is just hopeless.

 Max it's OK bro. Just admit your an Okafor hater. You will feel better when you do. He did act like a jackass in Boston, but hey he's 20, here's fuel for the fire. My favorite is when he's like "WE GOT MONEY!!!"

 It makes you wish these huts got 100K contacts instead of 100 Million

 Boston 2nd fight.

https://youtu.be/1F5ZQvWVloU

[KG Living Legend]

 Crimson you would rather have Monroe? Monroe same age.

 9.4 ppg 7.4 rpg .6 bpg in almost the same amount of minutes.
 
 Okafor
 17.1 ppg 7.3 rpg 1.2 bpg

 To think how much better Okafor will be than Greg in three years is crazy.

[KG Living Legend]

 And I do think Big Al is a good comp, Big Al a better rebounder, Okafor has more tools on offense and is even stronger.

 Imagine if we could have had Big Al with the Big three plus Rondo and Perkins! That would have been an all time team don't you think!

 My point is I don't think Big Al or Okafor are not winners, just unfortunate situations. Like KG his whole career until Boston.

[crimson_stallion]

Crimson you would rather have Monroe? Monroe same age.

 9.4 ppg 7.4 rpg .6 bpg in almost the same amount of minutes.
 
 Okafor
 17.1 ppg 7.3 rpg 1.2 bpg

 To think how much better Okafor will be than Greg in three years is crazy.

Not exactly.

Per 36 minutes:

Okafor
20.4 Points, 8.7 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 0.5 steals, 1.4 blocks, 2.8 turnovers, 3.1 fouls, 49% FG, 69% FT, 24.6% FTR, 1.55 PTS/FGA, 0.5 AST/TO, 13.5% Rebound Rate

Monroe
12.2 Pts, 9.7 reb, 1.7 assists, 1.5 steals, 0.7 blocks, 1.3 turnovers, 2.2 fouls, 55% FG, 75% FT, 42% FTR, 1.36 PTS/FGA, 1.3 AST/TO, 16.5% Rebound Rate

Okafor has far scored more points than Monroe did in his rookie year, but that's ultimately just a result of him having a bigger role in the offense.  Okafor is averaging 17.6 FGA/36 this year with a Usage rate of 27.1%, while Monroe in his rookie year averaged only 8.9 FGA/36 with a usage rate of 15.4% - almost half of Okafor's USG rate. 

If you look at the advanced stats though, Monroe was clearly a superior offensive player overall.  He was far more efficient offensively (largely because he was a monster at drawing fouls), he had clearly superior court feel (his AST/TO ratio was almost 3x higher than Okafor's this year) and his rebound rate was far superior.

Monroe also had a Net Rating of +11 his rookie year (vs -10 for Okafor) so pretty much every advanced stat tells you that he was a far, far better overall player than Okafor.  Not even close really.

Basically if you take a look at Monroe's scoring rate (1.36 PTS/FGA) and multiply that by 17.6 (Okafor's FGA) you can work our that Monroe would have been scoring some 24 PTS/36 if he was taking as many attempts as Okafor has this year. 

Conversely, if you cut Okafor's FGA to 8.9 Per 36 he'd only be averaging 10.3 PTS/36. 

That's pretty much all the proof you need to show that Okafor's high scoring numbers are entirely the result of an inflated offensive role on a really bad team.  Somebody has to take those shots, and in this case it is Okafor - and if you take enough shots, you're going to get points.

[jpotter33]

Crimson you would rather have Monroe? Monroe same age.

 9.4 ppg 7.4 rpg .6 bpg in almost the same amount of minutes.
 
 Okafor
 17.1 ppg 7.3 rpg 1.2 bpg

 To think how much better Okafor will be than Greg in three years is crazy.

Not exactly.

Per 36 minutes:

Okafor
20.4 Points, 8.7 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 0.5 steals, 1.4 blocks, 2.8 turnovers, 3.1 fouls, 49% FG, 69% FT, 24.6% FTR, 1.55 PTS/FGA, 0.5 AST/TO, 13.5% Rebound Rate

Monroe
12.2 Pts, 9.7 reb, 1.7 assists, 1.5 steals, 0.7 blocks, 1.3 turnovers, 2.2 fouls, 55% FG, 75% FT, 42% FTR, 1.36 PTS/FGA, 1.3 AST/TO, 16.5% Rebound Rate

Okafor has far scored more points than Monroe did in his rookie year, but that's ultimately just a result of him having a bigger role in the offense.  Okafor is averaging 17.6 FGA/36 this year with a Usage rate of 27.1%, while Monroe in his rookie year averaged only 8.9 FGA/36 with a usage rate of 15.4% - almost half of Okafor's USG rate. 

If you look at the advanced stats though, Monroe was clearly a superior offensive player overall.  He was far more efficient offensively (largely because he was a monster at drawing fouls), he had clearly superior court feel (his AST/TO ratio was almost 3x higher than Okafor's this year) and his rebound rate was far superior.

Monroe also had a Net Rating of +11 his rookie year (vs -10 for Okafor) so pretty much every advanced stat tells you that he was a far, far better overall player than Okafor.  Not even close really.

Basically if you take a look at Monroe's scoring rate (1.36 PTS/FGA) and multiply that by 17.6 (Okafor's FGA) you can work our that Monroe would have been scoring some 24 PPG if he was taking as many attempts as Okafor has this year.  That's pretty much all the proof you need to show that Okafor's scoring numbers are only as high as they are because of an inflated role on a bad team.

It's amazing how this argument works for you with Okafor but not with Love 

[crimson_stallion]

Crimson you would rather have Monroe? Monroe same age.

 9.4 ppg 7.4 rpg .6 bpg in almost the same amount of minutes.
 
 Okafor
 17.1 ppg 7.3 rpg 1.2 bpg

 To think how much better Okafor will be than Greg in three years is crazy.

Not exactly.

Per 36 minutes:

Okafor
20.4 Points, 8.7 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 0.5 steals, 1.4 blocks, 2.8 turnovers, 3.1 fouls, 49% FG, 69% FT, 24.6% FTR, 1.55 PTS/FGA, 0.5 AST/TO, 13.5% Rebound Rate

Monroe
12.2 Pts, 9.7 reb, 1.7 assists, 1.5 steals, 0.7 blocks, 1.3 turnovers, 2.2 fouls, 55% FG, 75% FT, 42% FTR, 1.36 PTS/FGA, 1.3 AST/TO, 16.5% Rebound Rate

Okafor has far scored more points than Monroe did in his rookie year, but that's ultimately just a result of him having a bigger role in the offense.  Okafor is averaging 17.6 FGA/36 this year with a Usage rate of 27.1%, while Monroe in his rookie year averaged only 8.9 FGA/36 with a usage rate of 15.4% - almost half of Okafor's USG rate. 

If you look at the advanced stats though, Monroe was clearly a superior offensive player overall.  He was far more efficient offensively (largely because he was a monster at drawing fouls), he had clearly superior court feel (his AST/TO ratio was almost 3x higher than Okafor's this year) and his rebound rate was far superior.

Monroe also had a Net Rating of +11 his rookie year (vs -10 for Okafor) so pretty much every advanced stat tells you that he was a far, far better overall player than Okafor.  Not even close really.

Basically if you take a look at Monroe's scoring rate (1.36 PTS/FGA) and multiply that by 17.6 (Okafor's FGA) you can work our that Monroe would have been scoring some 24 PPG if he was taking as many attempts as Okafor has this year.  That's pretty much all the proof you need to show that Okafor's scoring numbers are only as high as they are because of an inflated role on a bad team.

It's amazing how this argument works for you with Okafor but not with Love 

Why wouldn't it work with Love?

Love's Per 36 stats this year:
17.6 Pts, 11.7 reb, 2.6 assists, 1.0 steals, 0.7 blocks, 2.0 turnovers, 2.3 fouls, 41.8% FG, 80% FT, 29.6% FTR, 1.24 PTS/FGA, 1.3 AST/TO, 21% Rebound Rate, 22.7% Usage Rate

Love's usage rate is quite high this year, and is dead in the middle of Monroe's rookie year, and Okafor's this year.  He's not taking every shot available for his team like Okafor does, but by no means is he "lacking touches" like Monroe was in his rookie year.

His offensive efficiency (1.24 PTS/FGA) is better than Okafor's rookie stats, but again nowhere near as good as Monroe's rookie stats.

If Kevin Love was taking as many FGA/36 this year as Greg Monroe was in his rookie year, then he'd be averaging approximately 11 PTS/36 (versus Monroe's 12.2 PTS/36).
 
His passing is about on part with Monroe's rookie year, his rebounding is significantly better.

If you are are hoping to prove that Kevin Love right now is about as good as Greg Monroe was in his rookie year then congrats, you are successful.

If you are trying to get me to say that Kevin Love is a better player right now than Jahlil Okafor in his rookie year, then I will happily give you that too...which doesn't say much given that Okafor is (according to advanced stats) one of the worst centers in the entire NBA.

Ultimately if you look at Love's current stats the same way I just looked at Okafor's and Monroe's rookie year stats, it pretty much cements the fact that Kevin Love is a good player.  Not a superstar, not a game changer, not even just a 'star' - but a good player and a borderline star. 

That's pretty much exactly what I've been saying all along, so I am happy to see that the stats agree.   

Of course if you look at his stats early in his career, they told a very different story.  Albeit at that time he was a very different player.

[KG Living Legend]

 Come on C, with your fancy stats just admit that Okafor was probably better at same age.

 You know what has more weight than you and I going back and fourth. The NBA Scouts and Braintrusts.

 I remember Monroe well coming out. Nice college player very good passer. Slow of foot like Okafor never a great shot blocker did get some steals though pretty good hands on D.

 So yes. Okafor was at least more highly touted than Monroe and time will tell who's better. I know where my money is.

 There was a reason he went #7 overall though with players like Wall, Turner, Favors Wesley Johnson, cousins and Udoh going ahead of him.

 Okafor on the other hand was the Best player in his class by far since he was  15 to 16 years old. All the way till hallway through his first year of college when the scouts decided Town's had more Upside on both ends and guess what, they were right.

 Then Duke goes onto win the National Championship in his first year with him being the best player on the team and the Lakers pass on him which I do not agree with and he goes #3 overall.

[crimson_stallion]

Come on C, with your fancy stats just admit that Okafor was probably better at same age.

 You know what has more weight than you and I going back and fourth. The NBA Scouts and Braintrusts.

 I remember Monroe well coming out. Nice college player very good passer. Slow of foot like Okafor never a great shot blocker did get some steals though pretty good hands on D.

 So yes. Okafor was at least more highly touted than Monroe and time will tell who's better. I know where my money is.

 There was a reason he went #7 overall though with players like Wall, Turner, Favors Wesley Johnson, cousins and Udoh going ahead of him.

 Okafor on the other hand was the Best player in his class by far since he was  15 to 16 years old. All the way till hallway through his first year of college when the scouts decided Town's had more Upside on both ends and guess what, they were right.

 Then Duke goes onto win the National Championship in his first year with him being the best player on the team and the Lakers pass on him which I do not agree with and he goes #3 overall.

Draft position really means absolutely nothing though once a player makes it to the NBA and actually plays some games.  We have many examples to prove this such as Draymond Green, Anthony Bennett, Darko Milicic, Kawhi Leonard, etc.

Milicic in particular was expected by EVERYBODY to be an absolute monster, and the next great center.  He was taken over Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade. 

Trying to argue Okafor is better than Monroe in their rookies years because Okafor got drafted higher, is just not a rational argument. 

What matters is what those guys actually did in the NBA, and Monroe had a significantly better  rookie year than Okafor has now in almost every statistical area.

Hey look man I'm not trying to say that there is NO chance Okafor is going to be a great player.  He might shock the world, go into beast mode in a year or two, and destroy everything. Entirely possible. I just think it's highly unlikely.

All I'm saying is that right now, his box score numbers make him look a lot better than he actually is, and that he is going to have to overcome a LOT of weaknesses in his game if he hopes to become nearly as good as you seem to think he will be. 

Again I'm not saying that won't happen or that it can't happen, I just very strongly doubt it.

I really can't see him becoming any more than a poor man's Brook Lopez / Al Jefferson once you consider his very obvious limitations on both ends of the floor.

Either way, the fact that we are comparing Okafor to Monroe (who is a good player, but has never really been a genuine star) is, IMHO, a pretty good indication of where Okafor's potential lies. 

I think if he ever becomes as good (all-round) as Monroe has been so far, then you're pretty lucky.

He's probably going to develop into a better offensive player than Monroe in time, but I doubt he ever catches Monroe's efficiency, rebounding, passing or defensive ability (which is not great, but passable).

[KG Living Legend]

 Biggest reason why Okafor is better than Monroe is that Oak can get his shot Anytime he wants to against anybody, and still shoot a good%

 Just because your more efficient doesn't mean you better necessarily.
 There is a lot of Kelly Olynyk, Jeff Green's out there that are good but they seem timid quite often. Too a lesser extent that's Monroe.

 Where as Okafor see's himself like Iverson Or Kobe on offense, just give me the [dang] ball and get out of my way. There is something rare about that selfishness slash ego.

 Admittedly it can go good or bad but you need it to be great.   

[wdleehi]

I wouldn't do the nets pick and Bradley for him.


The 76ers need to move a big man.  They can't go into next season with 3 C that need minutes.  A top 5 draft pick for one of their big men (who have not done anything in this league) is more then fair.