Philly Gauging Okafor's Trade Value

[BDeCosta26]

Lets say Philly asked for the BKN pick and some crap filler
4
Jahlil Okafor

I would do that. I love Ingram/sim dog and think he is super special, but the chances are not in our favor, and Okafor is a legit big that can get a lot better.

2 things in his game that can improve:
1)FG%: many of his misses are actually blocked shots. This is somewhat common and he will learn how to avoid getting blocked so much, say what you want he has a high bbiq.
2)Blocks:He blocked a lot of shots to start his career and then slowed down. He has it in him to get more blocks

Blocks mean very little in terms of your actual defensive ability. Okafor's problems on defense are much, much larger than just blocking shots. He literally can not guard 4's at all, even a little, and there's a growing number of 5's he just can't guard either. Poor positioning, poor defensive instincts, poor footwork/foot speed, poor recognition and an inability to guard anyone further away than 10 feet are bigger problems than his timing on drives and rim-protection. Okafor is a very poor defensive center. TBH, he's even poorer on that end than I thought he would be, and a lot of it just doesn't seem to be all that fixable. I mean, B.Lopez is a guy who used to have a lot of the same problems and has improved to an almost adequate level, but the league is changing and guys like Lopez or Okafor just can't guard a guy like Draymond Green or even Kelly Olynyk. Plus, nothing about his work ethic/professionalism so far has told me he's gonna work as hard as Lope has just to get to that almost average point.

But he is a very talented offensive player. From the moment he came into his first game he's had one of the very best back-to-the-basket post games in basketball. And he's only like 19, so there's hope for big things. Even here though, he has so many flaws in his offensive game, in a NBA that is increasingly stressing versatility, that I'm not so sure I value that all that much either. He isn't a particularly great passer, he can't shoot outside of 13 feet, he needs to be isolated on the post and given the ball on a whole lot of possessions to be the most effective, and when he's not doing that he's not very effective. He's the kind of guy you have to totally design your offense around getting him scoring chances on the block when he's in the game, grinding down ball-movement and taking away from what the other 4 guys on the court can do. Really isn't great in the P&R either considering he's not a strong roll-man like Jordan or Drummond and he can't pick and pop. Not an elite rebounder either, and has a questionable motor.

Nothing about Okafor says Franchise Cornerstone. I think in today's NBA, he'll be lucky to have a career as good as Al Jefferson's had. DEFINITELY not someone worth trading a top 5 pick that still has a chance to be Simmons or Ingram. Probably not worth it even for #5.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Would you trade the Nets pick for Okafor? Million dollar question

Yes. But Philly would decline.

I wouldn't be too sure about that.

The rights to the net's pick is extremely valuable. Philly is collecting picks again and they have the lakers this year but it's top 3 protected. Also with Saric coming over and a healthy Embiid they have decisions to make.

But the most important reason is because Ben Simmons then Ingram. Simmons alone is driving gm's crazy and Ingram is a great #2......this does not happen every draft.

[obnoxiousmime]

This is more or less what I expected. All along I've thought that if it came down to Okafor and Noel, they'd rather deal Okafor. He puts up flashier numbers (specifically scoring), but his scouting report accurately predicted he wouldn't be a good defensive player. Also, his game is not ideal for today's style of play. I think they just took who they thought was the BPA and would figure it out later. Playing him over Noel early in the season seemed to be for the purpose of showcasing/tanking, and to some extent it worked in that he boosted his counting stats. However, I'm not convinced teams around the league will be fooled. They would trade him for the Brooklyn pick in half a second.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Lets say Philly asked for the BKN pick and some crap filler
4
Jahlil Okafor

I would do that. I love Ingram/sim dog and think he is super special, but the chances are not in our favor, and Okafor is a legit big that can get a lot better.

2 things in his game that can improve:
1)FG%: many of his misses are actually blocked shots. This is somewhat common and he will learn how to avoid getting blocked so much, say what you want he has a high bbiq.
2)Blocks:He blocked a lot of shots to start his career and then slowed down. He has it in him to get more blocks

Blocks mean very little in terms of your actual defensive ability. Okafor's problems on defense are much, much larger than just blocking shots. He literally can not guard 4's at all, even a little, and there's a growing number of 5's he just can't guard either. Poor positioning, poor defensive instincts, poor footwork/foot speed, poor recognition and an inability to guard anyone further away than 10 feet are bigger problems than his timing on drives and rim-protection. Okafor is a very poor defensive center. TBH, he's even poorer on that end than I thought he would be, and a lot of it just doesn't seem to be all that fixable. I mean, B.Lopez is a guy who used to have a lot of the same problems and has improved to an almost adequate level, but the league is changing and guys like Lopez or Okafor just can't guard a guy like Draymond Green or even Kelly Olynyk. Plus, nothing about his work ethic/professionalism so far has told me he's gonna work as hard as Lope has just to get to that almost average point.

But he is a very talented offensive player. From the moment he came into his first game he's had one of the very best back-to-the-basket post games in basketball. And he's only like 19, so there's hope for big things. Even here though, he has so many flaws in his offensive game, in a NBA that is increasingly stressing versatility, that I'm not so sure I value that all that much either. He isn't a particularly great passer, he can't shoot outside of 13 feet, he needs to be isolated on the post and given the ball on a whole lot of possessions to be the most effective, and when he's not doing that he's not very effective. He's the kind of guy you have to totally design your offense around getting him scoring chances on the block when he's in the game, grinding down ball-movement and taking away from what the other 4 guys on the court can do. Really isn't great in the P&R either considering he's not a strong roll-man like Jordan or Drummond and he can't pick and pop. Not an elite rebounder either, and has a questionable motor.

Nothing about Okafor says Franchise Cornerstone. I think in today's NBA, he'll be lucky to have a career as good as Al Jefferson's had. DEFINITELY not someone worth trading a top 5 pick that still has a chance to be Simmons or Ingram. Probably not worth it even for #5.

Don't look at me I wanted Myles Turner...lol. but at #5 IMO your being a little harsh.

Like you said he is young and for a rookie he's doing very well considering what franchise he is on. He has an elite wingspan(7'6'') and very good standing reach(9'3'') but he is also 272 and like you said has very good footwork. If he puts in the work, physically, IMO he can eventually defend both the 4 and 5. Many big guys have gotten jacked/cut up and because of Okafors 272lbs. IMO he could get cut up in time....and in the right system like the C's. A lot of the faults you assign him are possibly normal rookie issues.

We talk a lot about the environment we want here and how it will mold younger players.......maybe we should trust it and our coach. IMO CBS is the best coach i the league and by far, give him the right weapons like an Okafor/Jabari and I think you will be surprised.

In the end you are right in that he is not Hakeem body type. I always looked at other players like Towns and Turner and Ingram and really got rapped up with them. But he is just a rookie and if he was made available I would roll the dice with him.

[Future Celtics Owner]

This is more or less what I expected. All along I've thought that if it came down to Okafor and Noel, they'd rather deal Okafor. He puts up flashier numbers (specifically scoring), but his scouting report accurately predicted he wouldn't be a good defensive player. Also, his game is not ideal for today's style of play. I think they just took who they thought was the BPA and would figure it out later. Playing him over Noel early in the season seemed to be for the purpose of showcasing/tanking, and to some extent it worked in that he boosted his counting stats. However, I'm not convinced teams around the league will be fooled. They would trade him for the Brooklyn pick in half a second.

If you think that what are your thoughts on this:
Basics are:
BKN pick
4
Okafor, rights to LAL pick(top-3 protected in 2016,2017, and unprotected in 2018)

[alewilliam789]

Would you trade the Nets pick for Okafor? Million dollar question

Yes. But Philly would decline.

What do you mean Philly would decline?? We could send them a combination of Rozier, Olynyk, the Nets Pick, and our pick for Okafor. They add legitimate talent to slot into each individual position that actually meshes with their existing talent and allows Noel to move into his more natural position of C. They also have the possibility to have 2 top 5 picks in this upcoming draft to fill needs or trade for a superstar.
We get the ability to add a player that could be our franchise cornerstone and I believe fits perfectly into what we are doing in Boston. We still keep most of our core and still have the Dallas pick which has still has the possibility of being in the late lottery/ 14th overall pick which is still very valuable.

Philly's Starting 5:
PG: Terry Rozier
SG: Nik Stauskas
SF: Robert Covington
PF: Kelly Olynyk
C: Nerlens Noel


Celtics starting 5:
PG: Isaiah Thomas
SG: Avery Bradley
SF: Jae Crowder
PF: Amir Johnson
C: Jahlil Okafor

[Future Celtics Owner]

Would you trade the Nets pick for Okafor? Million dollar question

Yes. But Philly would decline.

What do you mean Philly would decline?? We could send them a combination of Rozier, Olynyk, the Nets Pick, and our pick for Okafor. They add legitimate talent to slot into each individual position that actually meshes with their existing talent and allows Noel to move into his more natural position of C. They also have the possibility to have 2 top 5 picks in this upcoming draft to fill needs or trade for a superstar.
We get the ability to add a player that could be our franchise cornerstone and I believe fits perfectly into what we are doing in Boston. We still keep most of our core and still have the Dallas pick which has still has the possibility of being in the late lottery/ 14th overall pick which is still very valuable.

Philly's Starting 5:
PG: Terry Rozier
SG: Nik Stauskas
SF: Robert Covington
PF: Kelly Olynyk
C: Nerlens Noel


Celtics starting 5:
PG: Isaiah Thomas
SG: Avery Bradley
SF: Jae Crowder
PF: Amir Johnson
C: Jahlil Okafor

The thing is the Nets pick could end up being Simmons or Ingram. The Nets have 2 players in Embiid and saric coming back next year and they only have 1 shot at a top 2 pick in this draft.

The chance to increse your odds of getting a top 2 pick in this draft could be hard for the sixers to pass on....especially with Simmons.

Maybe we could consolidate some of our picks with them and get 2017 picks. We could use another pick in 2017 because it is deep.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Lets say Philly asked for the BKN pick and some crap filler
4
Jahlil Okafor

I would do that. I love Ingram/sim dog and think he is super special, but the chances are not in our favor, and Okafor is a legit big that can get a lot better.

2 things in his game that can improve:
1)FG%: many of his misses are actually blocked shots. This is somewhat common and he will learn how to avoid getting blocked so much, say what you want he has a high bbiq.
2)Blocks:He blocked a lot of shots to start his career and then slowed down. He has it in him to get more blocks

Blocks mean very little in terms of your actual defensive ability. Okafor's problems on defense are much, much larger than just blocking shots. He literally can not guard 4's at all, even a little, and there's a growing number of 5's he just can't guard either. Poor positioning, poor defensive instincts, poor footwork/foot speed, poor recognition and an inability to guard anyone further away than 10 feet are bigger problems than his timing on drives and rim-protection. Okafor is a very poor defensive center. TBH, he's even poorer on that end than I thought he would be, and a lot of it just doesn't seem to be all that fixable. I mean, B.Lopez is a guy who used to have a lot of the same problems and has improved to an almost adequate level, but the league is changing and guys like Lopez or Okafor just can't guard a guy like Draymond Green or even Kelly Olynyk. Plus, nothing about his work ethic/professionalism so far has told me he's gonna work as hard as Lope has just to get to that almost average point.

But he is a very talented offensive player. From the moment he came into his first game he's had one of the very best back-to-the-basket post games in basketball. And he's only like 19, so there's hope for big things. Even here though, he has so many flaws in his offensive game, in a NBA that is increasingly stressing versatility, that I'm not so sure I value that all that much either. He isn't a particularly great passer, he can't shoot outside of 13 feet, he needs to be isolated on the post and given the ball on a whole lot of possessions to be the most effective, and when he's not doing that he's not very effective. He's the kind of guy you have to totally design your offense around getting him scoring chances on the block when he's in the game, grinding down ball-movement and taking away from what the other 4 guys on the court can do. Really isn't great in the P&R either considering he's not a strong roll-man like Jordan or Drummond and he can't pick and pop. Not an elite rebounder either, and has a questionable motor.

Nothing about Okafor says Franchise Cornerstone. I think in today's NBA, he'll be lucky to have a career as good as Al Jefferson's had. DEFINITELY not someone worth trading a top 5 pick that still has a chance to be Simmons or Ingram. Probably not worth it even for #5.

I've watched more vid's and I def can tell what you mean about his jumpers. He really is great at taking it to the hoop and everything else offensively, but if/when he starts shooting the ball( even in-side the 3-point line) he will be very very good. He still scores and the players must know he does not like to shoot.

His jumper is not mechanically bad at all. I could see him making that improvement because he really has to or his game will suffer horribly. Even if he does not shoot 3's ever...he needs to have the ability to hit from KG land and in(not even as far as KG). If he can do that his game will be so much better and on a completely new level.

[oldtype]

I think he has more potential than he's showing, but I don't want us to pay as much as Philly would want for him.