Author Topic: Do the Bucks bite?  (Read 4773 times)

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Re: Do the Bucks bite?
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2016, 01:53:45 PM »

Offline sdceltsfan

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Ah shoot, I totally forgot that it was just a swap of picks. So obviously that 2017 pick isn't going to be included.

What about just taking that pick out of the equation all together?

Re: Do the Bucks bite?
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2016, 02:00:01 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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Ah shoot, I totally forgot that it was just a swap of picks. So obviously that 2017 pick isn't going to be included.

What about just taking that pick out of the equation all together?

I'd do lee, sully, young, our 2016 and Dallas pick for Monroe and Jabari.

Re: Do the Bucks bite?
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2016, 02:01:03 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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Ah shoot, I totally forgot that it was just a swap of picks. So obviously that 2017 pick isn't going to be included.

What about just taking that pick out of the equation all together?

I'd do lee, sully, young, our 2016 and Dallas pick for Monroe and Jabari.

Doubt the Bucks do that
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: Do the Bucks bite?
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2016, 02:03:55 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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Ah shoot, I totally forgot that it was just a swap of picks. So obviously that 2017 pick isn't going to be included.

What about just taking that pick out of the equation all together?

I'd do lee, sully, young, our 2016 and Dallas pick for Monroe and Jabari.

Doubt the Bucks do that

So do I, but I'm not giving up any more  for that return.


Re: Do the Bucks bite?
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2016, 02:11:45 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I put the change to the trade I think works already.

Re: Do the Bucks bite?
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2016, 02:17:05 PM »

Offline jambr380

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If I'm the Bucks very much bite. C's probably not. If you take out Boston 2017 (pick swap rights you dont want to trade that), and Nets 2018 then the C's might pull the trigger. With those out its still a fair deal.
Rozier >=MCW
Nets 2016>=Parker
Sully, Lee, Young, Dallas 1st, C's 1st, Philly 2nd>=Monroe

This is a good breakdown and I agree - TP

Re: Do the Bucks bite?
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2016, 02:19:59 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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They've been bad since they got Monroe. Detroit was bad when they had Monroe. If we have to trade our incredible future to get a guy who has made all his teams worse, count me OUT.

I agree with your first sentence and your second, and many people combine those sentences and then feel irrefutably that the only logical conclusion is that Monroe will make any team he goes to worse. I disagree with this conclusion and how this is constantly, especially pointedly used against Monroe.

ET's Philly teams weren't so great. ET's team in Indiana sucked. ET comes here and wins. Let's use a less polarizing figure. IT loses in Sactown, loses in Phoenix, wins here. Why can't Monroe do the same.

People bang Monroe big-time for his defense or his lack thereof, and especially point to his Detroit days to show how bad a defender he was. His numbers in Detroit say differently. Monroe's +/- in Detroit were better when he was alone on the court compared to when he was with Drummond and compared to Drummond alone.  Now granted, Monroe's offense is most likely the reason for this , but that doesn't belie the fact that the Pistons were better with him on the court, except when he was paired with another lane-clogging, no range big.

Monroe is 25 years old, durable, runs the floor, passes and rebounds well and is probably (with Al Jeff in decline), a top 3 on the block offensive player in the league. And at $17mil for the next  2 1/2 years is a bargain compared to Sully at $12 mil. Monroe and Love or Monroe and Horford (with Horford's range) would be exciting.

Surround him with 4 shooters and him down-low and watch out. With the perimeter D that we have, CBS coaching him up  to improve his switching on D (with his great foot-work clearly on display in his offensive game, so he has the physical tools to do it) which is his greatest problem now and a critical skill needed to play for us, he'll be a substantial net positive for us.

Moot issue, though, because it didn't seem like Danny/ CBS were interested this summer when we could've had him for no assets given up.

Re: Do the Bucks bite?
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2016, 02:41:31 PM »

Offline playdream

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76ers ,Suns and Kings both sucked big time after IT/ET are gone
Pistons the opposite
Monroe may be the cancer so you don't give much for a try

Re: Do the Bucks bite?
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2016, 03:34:15 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Surround him with 4 shooters and him down-low and watch out. With the perimeter D that we have, CBS coaching him up  to improve his switching on D (with his great foot-work clearly on display in his offensive game, so he has the physical tools to do it) which is his greatest problem now and a critical skill needed to play for us, he'll be a substantial net positive for us.

This paragraph could mostly be applied to David Lee.  I'm not convinced that Greg Monroe works out significantly better than Lee.  I could buy Monroe if he's more like the third option on offense, but you're not going to build a legitimate title contender if someone like Monroe is the focus of your offense.
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Re: Do the Bucks bite?
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2016, 04:10:39 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Surround him with 4 shooters and him down-low and watch out. With the perimeter D that we have, CBS coaching him up  to improve his switching on D (with his great foot-work clearly on display in his offensive game, so he has the physical tools to do it) which is his greatest problem now and a critical skill needed to play for us, he'll be a substantial net positive for us.

This paragraph could mostly be applied to David Lee.  I'm not convinced that Greg Monroe works out significantly better than Lee.  I could buy Monroe if he's more like the third option on offense, but you're not going to build a legitimate title contender if someone like Monroe is the focus of your offense.

I don't think that we are that far off in our opinions here. Nice comparison to D Lee, TP, hadn't really thought of that....but, the qualifier I would add would be (DLee) "in his prime." And THAT DLee, could be our co-2nd option on O with IT depending on match-ups and circumstances, like a 2A and 2B.

Here's some excellent insight into Monroe from the thread the other day on Monroe. It is offered by a poster that I view as I do you, analytical and knowledgeable.
 I suppose two people could read this and come away with differing opinions as to whether we should take a chance on Monroe or not, because it talks about both his +s and -s, but I thought that it was balanced and thorough and hence worth sharing:

Quote
I'm in a fantasy league (Plug to DKCLeague, always looking for new members) where i have a lot invested in Monroe. I watched him a lot on the Pistons, I've watched probably 15 or so of his games this year.

What i think, is that Monroe is not a leader. He's not a guy who can call out defensive sets. He's a frontrunner, where he plays about as well as his team is playing. He demands (and deserves, usually) the ball regardless, but when the team is down, emotionally, not necessarily score-wise, Monroe does not run hard, he does not rotate on defense, he points fingers when there are blown assignments on the wing that he can't cover.

When they're losing, looking at Monroe is easy as a part of the problem, because he is. He can't be a defensive anchor in a lineup of flawed defenders, and resents when guys who aren't good defenders let their guy blow by them. He starts looking at the refs after every missed shot, or turnover. He is kind of a wet blanket when things are down, if that makes sense.

He's also obviously the Bucks best player when the team is engaged. He offers something only 3 or 4 other centers in the NBA can offer, in that you can legit run your offense through him. He doesn't have gaudy assist numbers, because he makes the pass that makes the pass. Think Marc Gasol level passing. Monroe could offer that. He also is kind of unstoppable in the post if the rest of the defense is being kept honest. Think of the best defensive center in the NBA. Greg Monroe can score on them. He's also been an elite rebounder in the past, and I'm sure he can be one again. He's only a pretty good rebounder for the position now.

Greg Monroe is a lot like a gifted but somewhat lazy teenager. He can surprise you when you put him in a position to succeed. He has a problem with self-motivation, he needs a team around him that is motivated. He likes to think he's important, but if you ask him to handle too much, you're going to be disappointed. He thinks he's 'the man', but is terrified of really embracing the role, and would rather someone else did it. He likes to be a part of something that is excited, if you put him on a team with a strong coach, with motivated teammates who have bought in, he'll fall in line. If he's on a team that is a bit rudderless, well...you'll go nowhere.

Sounds like we're a good match (Monroe and the current engaged, exciting, ball moving, defensive minded Cs). But I could see why others might think not. Monroe's game would greatly improve because of our team, and I think that our team would benefit from his skills and value.

Re: Do the Bucks bite?
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2016, 04:19:00 PM »

Offline sdceltsfan

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If I'm the Bucks very much bite. C's probably not. If you take out Boston 2017 (pick swap rights you dont want to trade that), and Nets 2018 then the C's might pull the trigger. With those out its still a fair deal.
Rozier >=MCW
Nets 2016>=Parker
Sully, Lee, Young, Dallas 1st, C's 1st, Philly 2nd>=Monroe

This is a good breakdown and I agree - TP

Thanks for the input. I totally forgot that that 2017 is a swap only, and not two picks for us (our own and BKN). So yeah definitely would not include that. So you also think taking out the Nets 2018?

I would counter that MIL would want to keep their own 2017


So reworking it...

Boston Sends: David Lee, Sullinger, Young, Rozier, BKN 2016, Dallas 2016, Boston 2016, Boston 2016 2nd rounder (highest pick)

Milwaukee Sends: Greg Monroe, Jabari Parker, MCW


For me, I'm also down to just keep Rozier and they can keep MCW.....just thought they may value Rozier over MCW, as he has displayed clear inconsistency. Either way, we are talking about our 3rd string PG/rotational guard.

Re: Do the Bucks bite?
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2016, 04:27:23 PM »

Offline sdceltsfan

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So basically it could be broken down as:

Cap space with Lee (plus ability to re-sign him next year for much less), Sully, 2 mid- 1st rounders, high 2nd rounder for Monroe

Young, plus a likely top 3-5 pick for Parker

Rozier for MCW


I feel like the BKN pick plus Young is more than fair, if not a little bit of any over-pay for Parker, considering he's not putting up All-Star numbers.....we are just assuming the risk of him getting there.

Sully is a more than capable big man for MIL at a cheaper price (for now)....say about 70-80 cents on the dollar compared to Monroe. A couple mid-1sts and a high-2nd seems like solid return for MIL

Rozier for MCW is more or less a wash, and not even necessary to include in the deal.....although I would still concede Rozier, even if MIL wanted to keep MCW.


I really feel like the addition of these two players in to the rotation really puts the team in to the contender realm, and we will still have plenty of draft ammo to add to the roster. Amir Johnson can be waived if we needed additional $$$ to go after any max-dollar FA's, if the opportunity arises in the off-season.

Re: Do the Bucks bite?
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2016, 04:45:51 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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No ...

Dey get ya wif deer antlers ..... :)

Re: Do the Bucks bite?
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2016, 05:37:54 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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The Bucks should tear it down and rebuild?!

Their biggest stars are 21 and under.  So much for patience in the rebuilding process. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Do the Bucks bite?
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2016, 07:29:41 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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I can only imagine, but deer probably do bite given the right circumstances, and I suspect it'd be painful.
ha, ha...you beat me to it. tp for the quick wit.  ;D
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