Author Topic: Kevin Love isn't special anymore  (Read 7915 times)

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Re: Kevin Love isn't special anymore
« Reply #60 on: February 13, 2016, 07:17:53 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I think that ridiculous perm is the leading cause of the depreciation of Kevin Love's value.
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Re: Kevin Love isn't special anymore
« Reply #61 on: February 13, 2016, 07:19:47 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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You all hear the other day Lebron... "says if he could play with any legend it would be J Kidd because of his ability find you"

Not that Lebron's wrong, Jason Kidd is one of the best producers of quality shots for his teammates that the game has ever seen, but I do think Lebron is still not entirely aware of just how much he effects his team's offense by being the primary ball handler.

Think even Jason Kidd would have trouble finding him if Lebron played the game the way he always had in his career, he's like Rondo, completely ball dominant. When he doesn't have the ball he's not usually the type to make intelligent cuts or sneaking behind off ball screens, he's calling for the ball so he can drive on his match up.

Lebron IMO is the ultimate example of the AAU system hurting a player's growth. Ever since a young age rather than working with coaches on developing a fundamentally sound game he was playing game after game against inferior competition physically dominating his match ups and passing to teammates who are just spotting up from the same spot they always watch Lebron from. He only ever got as good as he needed to. He never really learned to play off the ball because he never had to when he was learning the game.

Which brings us to Love. Whether its conscious or not Lebron pigeon holes Love into the same role that his mental makeup believes a PF should play and Love's strengths are wasted because of it. Love's just there to kick out too on drives, swing too on the perimeter and clean up Lebron's misses. Lebron's never been able to develop real chemistry with his Love or most of his other teammates in the way that Pierce, KG, and Ray did or Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli did because he views his role on the team as the Lebron show and everyone else needs to get out of his way.

Long winded analysis aside that's just my take on why Love has fallen off as far as he has.

TLDR: Kevin Love is putting up pedestrian PF numbers because the primary ball handler Lebron plays as if he's a pedestrian PF.

I agree with you about Lebron's game affecting other players...but I disagree with you that this has much to do with Love's weaker production.

If you break down and analyse his statistics, they aren't all that different from his best years in Minnesota.  With the exception of his Free Throw Rate being lower (albeit, still high in it's own right) all of his other stats are very close to what they were in his big Minnesota seasons.

People just don't get the fact that Kevin Love has been changing his game for years now - since back in the late Minny days. 

Early in his career he was much more aggressive playing inside.  As his career has gone on, his game has gradually moved further and further away from the paint, and closer and closer to the three point line.  This started to happen long before he joined the Cavs. 

Being on the Cavs no doubt has SOME impact on his change in playing style (and hence, production) but it's only a part of it.  A big part of it is due to Kevin Love himself changing the way he plays the game as he's career has gone on.

Personally, I think it's due to his "made of glass" injury history.  His push towards less scoring in the paint and more standing around the three point line, seems to have really started to accelerate aggressively after his last major injury riddled season in Minnesota.  My suspicion is that he knows he's made of glass, so he tries to reduce the chances of injuries by playing a less physical game, and spending more time out on the 'safer' perimeter.

This impacts his ability to be affective and to dominate games though.  He's still a very skilled offensive player, but he's not that elite, dominant guy he once was.  At one time people saw him as a legit superstar, and a top 10 player.  Now he is kinda more a on Al Horford level - a nice player who can impact the game in a big way, but only really a borderline star.

Re: Kevin Love isn't special anymore
« Reply #62 on: February 13, 2016, 07:24:08 PM »

Offline mgent

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He's certainly not special getting used like Ryan Anderson in Cleveland.  This is why there is talk of trading him in the first place.

So says everyone who wanted Love to come here (and thought he would turn our team around).   ;D

Please, we all need admit it was wrong to call Love a top 5 player, especially before he ever played on a team that wasn't a bottom feeder in the league.

Let's stop with this pipe-dream of, "well, he would be a top 5 player if he had Brad Stevens and was being used correctly."
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Re: Kevin Love isn't special anymore
« Reply #63 on: February 13, 2016, 07:31:11 PM »

Offline i believe in brad

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He's certainly not special getting used like Ryan Anderson in Cleveland.  This is why there is talk of trading him in the first place.

So says everyone who wanted Love to come here (and thought he would turn our team around).   ;D

Please, we all need admit it was wrong to call Love a top 5 player, especially before he ever played on a team that wasn't a bottom feeder in the league.

Let's stop with this pipe-dream of, "well, he would be a top 5 player if he had Brad Stevens and was being used correctly."

I don't think it's outrageous to believe cbs would get a lot more out of love than what we've seen of him in Cleveland.  He seems to get the most out of all our guys (see Evan turner)

Re: Kevin Love isn't special anymore
« Reply #64 on: February 13, 2016, 07:44:50 PM »

Offline Smartacus

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You all hear the other day Lebron... "says if he could play with any legend it would be J Kidd because of his ability find you"

Not that Lebron's wrong, Jason Kidd is one of the best producers of quality shots for his teammates that the game has ever seen, but I do think Lebron is still not entirely aware of just how much he effects his team's offense by being the primary ball handler.

Think even Jason Kidd would have trouble finding him if Lebron played the game the way he always had in his career, he's like Rondo, completely ball dominant. When he doesn't have the ball he's not usually the type to make intelligent cuts or sneaking behind off ball screens, he's calling for the ball so he can drive on his match up.

Lebron IMO is the ultimate example of the AAU system hurting a player's growth. Ever since a young age rather than working with coaches on developing a fundamentally sound game he was playing game after game against inferior competition physically dominating his match ups and passing to teammates who are just spotting up from the same spot they always watch Lebron from. He only ever got as good as he needed to. He never really learned to play off the ball because he never had to when he was learning the game.

Which brings us to Love. Whether its conscious or not Lebron pigeon holes Love into the same role that his mental makeup believes a PF should play and Love's strengths are wasted because of it. Love's just there to kick out too on drives, swing too on the perimeter and clean up Lebron's misses. Lebron's never been able to develop real chemistry with his Love or most of his other teammates in the way that Pierce, KG, and Ray did or Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli did because he views his role on the team as the Lebron show and everyone else needs to get out of his way.

Long winded analysis aside that's just my take on why Love has fallen off as far as he has.

TLDR: Kevin Love is putting up pedestrian PF numbers because the primary ball handler Lebron plays as if he's a pedestrian PF.

I agree with you about Lebron's game affecting other players...but I disagree with you that this has much to do with Love's weaker production.

If you break down and analyse his statistics, they aren't all that different from his best years in Minnesota.  With the exception of his Free Throw Rate being lower (albeit, still high in it's own right) all of his other stats are very close to what they were in his big Minnesota seasons.

People just don't get the fact that Kevin Love has been changing his game for years now - since back in the late Minny days. 

Early in his career he was much more aggressive playing inside.  As his career has gone on, his game has gradually moved further and further away from the paint, and closer and closer to the three point line.  This started to happen long before he joined the Cavs. 

Being on the Cavs no doubt has SOME impact on his change in playing style (and hence, production) but it's only a part of it.  A big part of it is due to Kevin Love himself changing the way he plays the game as he's career has gone on.

Personally, I think it's due to his "made of glass" injury history.  His push towards less scoring in the paint and more standing around the three point line, seems to have really started to accelerate aggressively after his last major injury riddled season in Minnesota.  My suspicion is that he knows he's made of glass, so he tries to reduce the chances of injuries by playing a less physical game, and spending more time out on the 'safer' perimeter.

This impacts his ability to be affective and to dominate games though.  He's still a very skilled offensive player, but he's not that elite, dominant guy he once was.  At one time people saw him as a legit superstar, and a top 10 player.  Now he is kinda more a on Al Horford level - a nice player who can impact the game in a big way, but only really a borderline star.

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic about Love's decline but I just think fit has a massive amount to do with how players approach the game even down to a mental level. If your not 100% comfortable with your situation you'll be hesitant and that will negatively impact your production and could even contribute to injuries.

Think Melo's regressed mainly because of the circus that is New York where someone like Chris Paul has thrived on a team that's built around his strengths. Yes the Clippers are way better than the Knicks but I'm speaking more to the star player's body language. Paul is playing with 100% confidence where Melo's wondering what is going to be written about him in the New York media whenever he takes a shot.

Not long ago Love was a confident, aggressive, scorer on the block and outside. He wasn't worrying about stepping on toes or going 5 possessions without getting passed too. Until I see Love in a situation where his game will fit better (not even necessarily with us, think he'd do well in Houston, Portland, San Antonio, maybe Chicago) I'm not going to call the funeral on his status as an elite level player. He's been in a transition for too long he needs to find a home.

Re: Kevin Love isn't special anymore
« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2016, 07:56:24 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If the Cavs give up on Love in the next five days(they won't), its because they have determined that Kevin Love is not good enough to defend players on the Golden State Warriors enough that it would allow the Cavs to beat the Dubs in the Finals. It really comes down to that.

Say what you want about Blatt but he had that team performing at an elite level defensively in last year's playoffs without Love. That Cavs team was playing unbelievably great defense come the Conference championships and the Finals. I am not sure that Cavs team performs defensively at that level with Love on the court.

So for those thinking Stevens is suddenly going to take Love, a bad defender his whole career, even on a strong defensive team like the Cavs, and make him a good defender, you are sadly mistaken. Defense is effort and attitude and Love doesn't have that part of the game in him, its why he likes playing on the perimeter.

I don't think Love would even be as good of a defender as Sullinger or Olynyk. Some guys(like David Lee) just aren't going to miraculously turn into great defenders because of a coach. I see Love as one of those guys. If Cleveland trades Love, its because they feel the same way I do.

Re: Kevin Love isn't special anymore
« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2016, 08:05:30 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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I'm a huge fan of Kevin Love. Its because I love his outlet passing, reminiscent of Wes Unseld's, and his intelligent knack for detecting where the ball will drop, sort of like Rondo's keen sense too.

Yes hes not the perfect scorer, but I would definitely take him over what Sully or KO could honestly end up being. If at the cost is 6-7 or more expensive, then so be it. Kevin Love is certainly an better free agent draw, especially on a really good team like the Celtics; and with the coaching of Stevens, I can at least see Love being a little better.

His defense is atrocious. But I'm wary of what we would give up, and how much. Its no hidden secret how much Ainge covets Love, and its certainly not oblivious to either teams.

I think Isaiah Thomas is the perfect player next to Love.
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