Author Topic: Toxic players  (Read 7082 times)

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Re: Toxic players
« Reply #60 on: February 13, 2016, 08:22:51 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I'm tending to the camp that says with the right man management, team mates and motivation players can do what they are paid for - produce high quality performance - despite apparent personality flaws. I know of sporting teams who have won their top honours even though the players hated each other and didn't mix outside of training and game day.

I can't recall the NFL player (think he might have played for the cowboys) who never spoke to any of his team mates but won a super bowl with them.

There are undoubtedly exceptions where ultra talented players disrupt harmony too much. They are paid to perform, not be friends or drinking buddies though and if team and player are producing I don't care if they leave work not all mates. Obviously harmony is preferable but pro sport is about winning, not happy families.

That said, under CBS and DA I think the whole family idea is valued and they want players who contribute to that.

^

Very well said, and people should remember that basketball is a profession for these guys, not a social gathering. 

Every job I go to, I usually end up being one of the more social people in the team - I like having friendly relationships with the people I work with, at least while I'm at work.  Sometimes I make friends with people and remain in contact with them even after I move on - the majority of people I just get along with while I'm at work, then never speak to them again once I move on.

But there are some people who go see work as purely a professional thing.  They go to work to achieve their professional goals (make money, further their career, whatever it may be) and don't really have any interest in making friends or getting to know their colleagues on a personal level.  I think that's fair, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.  You're paid to do your job, and as long as you do it well you're earning your coin.  Some of the more social employees don't like people like that though, and start drawing unfair conclusions about them - things like "he/she things he/she is better than everybody else", etc.

I've known people who are perfectly nice people, but just aren't very social...and they have had entire workplaces turn against them and make their life at work a living hell purely because they aren't social butterflies that want to go out for drinks with everybody else, share their life stories, etc.

I'm sure the NBA is like that too.  In fact I could see somebody like Ray Allen potentially falling in to that latter category as a guy who just want to put in his work, get his pay cheque, and go home - rather than go out drinking with teammates, etc.

BUT there are also those employees who nobody can work with.  The ones who refuse to handle their work load (not because they lack there ability, just because they are lazy or thing it's below them), leaving everybody else in the team having to work twice as hard to cover for them.  The ones who won't be willing to swap with you on that day when you realllly need to take a earlier lunch - with their only reason being "not my problem".  The ones who will outright refuse to ever work a back even one minute, or sacrifice even 30 seconds of their lunch break, no matter the circumstances.  The ones who just are selfish team players, and who will throw anybody under the bus if they feel it will protect them from getting in trouble, or help them further their career. Those are the guys who I would call 'toxic'. 

I feel like Dwight Howard in the Magic days fits that criteria - not so much now.  I think MJ, for sure - he's KNOWN for throwing anybody under the bus for his own personal agenda.  Lebron, I could see being a bit like that behind closed doors.  I could see Kevin Love being a little bit like that too maybe - though that might not be the case.

Re: Toxic players
« Reply #61 on: February 14, 2016, 04:23:19 AM »

Offline iadera

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Very bad list. All of these players would make us better, so I really don't see why would anyone disagree with any of trades that would include these players. Personaly, the only player that I would not like to see in green is LeBron.

Re: Toxic players
« Reply #62 on: February 14, 2016, 05:17:49 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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The list really just looks like a list of guys the OP doesn't like.

Wade is toxic? Guy has played with the same franchise all his career and has 3 rings. What has he been polluting?

And I really don't care if someone is toxic. Kobe is toxic, but he has had great success, even while insulting teammates publicly. He has even driven all star caliber players away from the Lakers, but he still brought them rings.

Re: Toxic players
« Reply #63 on: February 14, 2016, 05:39:16 AM »

Offline mr. dee

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I would take out D-wade and Westbrook on the list.

Dwade is a team player. He is proven to be a leader of a championship team. You'll love him as a teammate but will hate him on the other side of the court with his dirty antics.

Westbrook, while inefficient  is also far from toxic. The guy competes every night, even if it just to stuff his stat sheet.

Chris Paul - this guy is a loser, but as long as you're winning, I don't think he will an issue unless you force him to carry your team.

Here are some real toxic players, imo:

Kobe - his feud with Shaq set the franchise back for at least 4 years when they could won more rings with the duo.

Rondo - love the guy but if you try to force him in the cage, he will bite you back.

Dwight - this guy always had some competitive issues. It can't be coincidence that all the coaches of the teams he joined were fired.

Stephenson - had a feud with his Pacers teammate including Evan Turner.

Love - had a feud with Rubio and there might be some issues in Cleveland we still don't know yet. Nuff said.

Re: Toxic players
« Reply #64 on: February 14, 2016, 06:14:16 AM »

Offline CroCorvus

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Very bad list. All of these players would make us better, so I really don't see why would anyone disagree with any of trades that would include these players. Personaly, the only player that I would not like to see in green is LeBron.

No disrespect but if you would love Wade on the Celtics team then I guess you started to follow the Celtics yesterday...

Re: Toxic players
« Reply #65 on: February 14, 2016, 04:58:04 PM »

Offline passesofftodj

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He doesn't dress prep at all.

He dresses hipster.

It's a COUNTER-culture thing.  Going against the grain.  Rebellious.  Unconventional.  That's the definition of punk.

The people who dressed unconventionally with leather jackets, long hair, piercings, tattoos, etc., they were punks.

That's all become common or accepted nowadays, so people rebel with clothing in a different manner.

Again, I didn't call him a punk due to his clothing, it was due to how he talks/carries himself in interviews.

I live in Portland, that is definitely not a hipster look - unless you are deep undercover ironic.  Not saying I don't dig it but Westbrook dresses like The Fresh Prince in "Parents Just Don't Understand".

Re: Toxic players
« Reply #66 on: February 14, 2016, 05:19:33 PM »

Online jambr380

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Actually, I'm not sure whether Westbrook has a high quality personality or not, I don't know enough about him.

Though, given how he dresses and the few interviews I've seen, he kinda seems like a punk (when we beat OKC he basically dissed Smart for no reason).
When is he ever a punk on the court?

This is a guy who gives 100 percent effort every game.

Who said anything about on the court?  Punk on the court is very different than punk off the court.

And what the heck does effort have to do with being a punk?

We were talking about personality and you're talking about how much effort one gives on the court?  What?

And anyway, with all that said, when is he not a punk on the court?  He's known for taunting, constantly loses his cool, constantly flops and plays antics, and is constantly one of the leaders in technical fouls every year.

Then there's how he pouted when he was benched in the 4th during the playoffs.

And seeing as how we were talking about personality, I didn't give those things any weight (I figured I'd give him the benefit of the doubt because I haven't seen much of his personality).
I don't see what his clothes have anything to do with his potential fit on our team.

And him having flare ups is because he cares about winning so much. Big difference from moody punks in this league.

Westbrook is far from a punk on the court.

Anything else you want to add?



Sorry to go a little off-topic, but the word 'punk' appeared way too many times not to post my favorite definition of the word.

Oh, and if we could add Westbrook, that would be amazing. Could Smart or IT and the Brooklyn pick get him if KD leaves?

Re: Toxic players
« Reply #67 on: February 14, 2016, 05:35:13 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Very bad list. All of these players would make us better, so I really don't see why would anyone disagree with any of trades that would include these players. Personaly, the only player that I would not like to see in green is LeBron.

No disrespect but if you would love Wade on the Celtics team then I guess you started to follow the Celtics yesterday...

Why?

I mean I don't personally feel Wade is a good fit for us (lack of outside shot, degraded defense with age, injury prone, etc) but I can still completely understand why other people might want him here.

The guy is (IMHO) one of the greatest competitors we have seen in the past 20 years. 

Honestly, the fact that somebody as egotistical as Shaq handed Wade the keys to the Miami Heat team when he was only 24 years old (in his third season) just goes to show how much respect Wade commanded.   

In fact when he was at his best (e.g. when he was averaging 30/8/5), I genuinely believed that Wade was better than Lebron.  He was putting up similar numbers, but Wade had already win a title and had also proven consistently that he was a more competitive guy by nature.

Now days Wade is obviously a shadow of his former glory, but he's still averaging 19/5/4 in only 30 minutes a game, he is still fearless going to the basket (and elite at finishing there), he still has a dangerous midrange game, and he still gets to the line at an excellent rate.  Even today, at age 34, he still one of the top 5 or 10 shooting guards in the game...and is still a great fit in the right system.  I just don't feel that our style of play and roster makeup really suits his skill set.   


Re: Toxic players
« Reply #68 on: February 15, 2016, 12:42:55 PM »

Offline mgent

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Not exactly what part you don't understand.  Spin means bias.  Opinions are inherently biased, and inherently have spin.  Putting "spin" on your own personal opinion is either impossible or a waste of time because your own personal bias is already written all over your opinions....
SMH. I think you took one too many spins around the block sir.

I think if you just keep saying stuff like that instead of actually refuting the points I'm making, you'll convince a lot more people.

I wouldn't sweat it too much, mgent.  That's his go-to when he can't refute things.   He also reads what he wants to read in his head in regards to peoples' posts rather than the words written sometimes.  I wouldn't bang your head too much about this.
Right because you don't like me calling Hillary Killery. Only reason you are sticking up for him. I got dragged into this silly back and forth. All I said was Westbrook is not a punk. He got bent out of shape. Whatever.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, that's ALL you said?    :o

I questioned Westbrook's personality and you countered that/stuck up for him by saying he gives 100% when playing basketball....  Of course I have to respond to that, and of course I'm going to respond whenever somebody misquotes me or misunderstood/misrepresents what I said.

I don't think it's a crazy question because a lot of professional NBA/NFL/MLB players who have grown up being better than everyone else can be jerks/horrible people.  Of course i treat every player as innocent until proven guilty, but the way Westbrook acts in interviews (like he's better than everyone else) has made me question.  I've told you multiple times this is the main reason why I'm questioning his personality/questioning whether he's a punk (which is much different than CALLING him a punk) but you can't seem to look past the fact I *GASP* mentioned his clothes (because the way someone dresses says absolutely nothing about them right?)
This back and forth with you is like having an argument with a drunk guy who keeps rambling about nonsense. I don't really care what you have to say any longer.

You do know that's exactly the type of thing someone says when they have absolutely no clue how to refute the points you just laid out in front of them?

You definitely make me smile, bud.

Continually saying someone doesn't make sense, without giving any evidence or even attempting to prove WHY they don't make sense, just isn't a good look.  I hope you stop.

I'm already aware you don't care what I have to say, because you put literally ZERO effort into reading my posts and trying to comprehend them before going ahead and responding.

Instead your effort goes to changing my words so that way you can look like you're winning the argument.

I'm really just starting to think you believe you're gonna win the debate so long as you say the last word.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 12:48:04 PM by mgent »
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Toxic players
« Reply #69 on: February 15, 2016, 12:51:14 PM »

Offline mgent

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Please. Guys just kiss and make up.

You guys are two perfectly well and articulate gentlemen. Just walk away, and lets discuss more insightful conversations about the team we both love.

;)

#Banner, not one, not two, not three... not four.... FIVE! (TP to anyone who can guess my reference.)

Thanks, man.  Tommy point to ya for the level head and nice words.

Also, LeBron reference I think?
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale