Toxic players

[Celtics4ever]

Kobe is next to the dictionary definition of toxic.

[CelticSince83]

We hear a lot of rumors these days about the players we possibly acquiring so I decided to put on a topic about my list of players who I think are toxic (meaning: care only about themselves and their "brand", not high quality personalities, no true leaders, divas and etc., hope you get my poin) to their teams. The players I would not want any part of this great team and franchise. This is my take, hope there is not another one like this so that I'm not duplicate anyone. Here is my list of players, so join in if you please (in no particural order).

- LBJ
- Melo
- CP3
- Wade
- JR Smith
- Harden
- Whiteside
- Blake Griffin
- Markief Morris
- Lance
- DMC
- Westbrook
- Gay
 
These are the players I would not want us to trade for. If it somehow happens, it happens. I would not be happy about it, just would hate them less :-)
Maybe for some of them is just my perception. Maybe they could change and become better players, maybe it's just their surroundings that makes them act silly, I don't know, it's just how I see it... that's my two cents before the storm...
thx
Nik

Really, Westbrook?  If toxic is giving it 110% every night, he's your guy. 

[Tr1boy]

whiteside and cousins

[mgent]

Actually, I'm not sure whether Westbrook has a high quality personality or not, I don't know enough about him.

Though, given how he dresses and the few interviews I've seen, he kinda seems like a punk (when we beat OKC he basically dissed Smart for no reason).

When is he ever a punk on the court?

This is a guy who gives 100 percent effort every game.

Who said anything about on the court?  Punk on the court is very different than punk off the court.

And what the heck does effort have to do with being a punk?

We were talking about personality and you're talking about how much effort one gives on the court?  What?

And anyway, with all that said, when is he not a punk on the court?  He's known for taunting, constantly loses his cool, constantly flops and plays antics, and is constantly one of the leaders in technical fouls every year.

Then there's how he pouted when he was benched in the 4th during the playoffs.

And seeing as how we were talking about personality, I didn't give those things any weight (I figured I'd give him the benefit of the doubt because I haven't seen much of his personality).

I don't see what his clothes have anything to do with his potential fit on our team.

And him having flare ups is because he cares about winning so much. Big difference from moody punks in this league.

Westbrook is far from a punk on the court.

Anything else you want to add?

Again, never said anything about his potential fit on our team.  I would take Westbrook, he's not on any "untouchable" or "toxic" list of mine.  That's the second time you've put words in my mouth, and both times, they weren't even remotely close to the origin.  All I said was Westbrook fits 2-3 of the OP's criteria for a toxic player, and even went out of my way to give him the benefit of the doubt on one of them (the one you're arguing about).

Read my posts more than once if that's what it takes for the ACTUAL words I'm saying to sink in.

Not sure what you consider a "punk on the court," but whatever you want to call the "moody" attitude that DMC, Melo, JR Smith, etc. have, that's what Westbrook also has.  Not saying that means Westbrook should be avoided.  KG was a punk on the court, and we loved him for it (though he was an amazing person off the court).

[Donoghus]

I'm not sure I'd consider nearly half the guys on the OP's list to be "toxic".

[KeepRondo]

Actually, I'm not sure whether Westbrook has a high quality personality or not, I don't know enough about him.

Though, given how he dresses and the few interviews I've seen, he kinda seems like a punk (when we beat OKC he basically dissed Smart for no reason).

When is he ever a punk on the court?

This is a guy who gives 100 percent effort every game.

Who said anything about on the court?  Punk on the court is very different than punk off the court.

And what the heck does effort have to do with being a punk?

We were talking about personality and you're talking about how much effort one gives on the court?  What?

And anyway, with all that said, when is he not a punk on the court?  He's known for taunting, constantly loses his cool, constantly flops and plays antics, and is constantly one of the leaders in technical fouls every year.

Then there's how he pouted when he was benched in the 4th during the playoffs.

And seeing as how we were talking about personality, I didn't give those things any weight (I figured I'd give him the benefit of the doubt because I haven't seen much of his personality).

I don't see what his clothes have anything to do with his potential fit on our team.

And him having flare ups is because he cares about winning so much. Big difference from moody punks in this league.

Westbrook is far from a punk on the court.

Anything else you want to add?

Again, never said anything about his potential fit on our team.  I would take Westbrook, he's not on any "untouchable" or "toxic" list of mine.  That's the second time you've put words in my mouth, and both times, they weren't even remotely close to the origin.  All I said was Westbrook fits 2-3 of the OP's criteria for a toxic player, and even went out of my way to give him the benefit of the doubt on one of them (the one you're arguing about).

Read my posts more than once if that's what it takes for the ACTUAL words I'm saying to sink in.

Not sure what you consider a "punk on the court," but whatever you want to call the "moody" attitude that DMC, Melo, JR Smith, etc. have, that's what Westbrook also has.  Not saying that means Westbrook should be avoided.  KG was a punk on the court, and we loved him for it (though he was an amazing person off the court).

You criticized him for his choice of clothes. And no his flare ups are nothing like Cousins or guys like Melo who can check out at times. The dude is super competitive.

Stop trying to spin it.

[CroCorvus]

We hear a lot of rumors these days about the players we possibly acquiring so I decided to put on a topic about my list of players who I think are toxic (meaning: care only about themselves and their "brand", not high quality personalities, no true leaders, divas and etc., hope you get my poin) to their teams. The players I would not want any part of this great team and franchise. This is my take, hope there is not another one like this so that I'm not duplicate anyone. Here is my list of players, so join in if you please (in no particural order).

- LBJ
- Melo
- CP3
- Wade
- JR Smith
- Harden
- Whiteside
- Blake Griffin
- Markief Morris
- Lance
- DMC
- Westbrook
- Gay
 
These are the players I would not want us to trade for. If it somehow happens, it happens. I would not be happy about it, just would hate them less :-)
Maybe for some of them is just my perception. Maybe they could change and become better players, maybe it's just their surroundings that makes them act silly, I don't know, it's just how I see it... that's my two cents before the storm...
thx
Nik

Can't believe I forgot to include Howard smh.

[CroCorvus]

You don't want Westbrook?

Look at IT4 in Steven's system. Westbrook would be like a steroid version of IT4 in Steven's system.

Well, maybe including Russ in that list of players was bit of a rush and misleading. He is a amazing player with out of this world athletics... but, the thing with him is that he doesn't make his players better. Just look at that OKC team throughout the years and tell me if they weren't talented and good enough to win a championship, or at least play in more finals or even conference finals? Who they got? They got Russ, KD, Ibaka and bunch of good role players always. Russ is a PG and he should make his team mates better, and I can't see he is doing that. Look at the way they play. This is one dimensional basketball. A pure pick up style of basketball. First me style of ball. And then the rest of the team.... ok, this is not only to him, small part of that blame goes to KD as well, but only a small part because he's a waay better offensive player then Russ is. First I thought it's because of Scotty Brooks, but now I see that they play the same style with the new coach. Just give me the ball and spread out. Get the hell of my way... Somewhere I read that Ibaka is getting only two shots per fourth quarter. That's 2 shots for one of the best forwards in the game...someone also said about his comments about Smart after we kicked their asses. Now if that is a grown man's all star nba superstar face of the franchise answer to the reporters then excuse me please, but I would have my Smart, AB and Crowder all day long. We could argue how he would be under Brad Stevens....
One more thing, and maybe that don't have to mean anything, but Westbrook and KD will never win an NBA championship together. I'm just an average NBA fan, but I have seen enough of basketball in my 36 yrs that I can tell.

[CroCorvus]

IT could have been on that list a few years ago. Kings let him go for nothing. And people said he took too many bad shots not in the system.

I think toxic players are over blown. Im not talking about some of the crazies. Im talking about the players that play a certain way with edgy demeanor. It's all about how a team responds to the player. When Blake is dishing and finishing teammates love him. When Blake ask for the ball and tells people to clear he is show boating only if he misses. If Cousins gets hacked and gets upset it isn't called after three previous bad calls he is a malcontent or is he trying to work over the refs? It's silly to think these type of players are toxic. We can absolutely say in some way coaches can be toxic like George Karl, MarkJackson, Fisher, Kidd and even some GMs and owners are toxic. Players play their game if coaches use that and position them in the right time/place the players do fine. If a coach, gm or owner hinders or miss uses players and/or try to make others succeed when they can't (see Doc with son) then things can go bad and become toxic.

Few years ago IT was just a last picked player in the draft, you can't talk about him that way... yeah, he was a score first pg in his last year in Sac-Town, but I didn't hear anything bad about him, or see any wrong things on the floor.

[Who]

You don't want Westbrook?

Look at IT4 in Steven's system. Westbrook would be like a steroid version of IT4 in Steven's system.

Well, maybe including Russ in that list of players was bit of a rush and misleading. He is a amazing player with out of this world athletics... but, the thing with him is that he doesn't make his players better. Just look at that OKC team throughout the years and tell me if they weren't talented and good enough to win a championship, or at least play in more finals or even conference finals? Who they got? They got Russ, KD, Ibaka and bunch of good role players always. Russ is a PG and he should make his team mates better, and I can't see he is doing that. Look at the way they play. This is one dimensional basketball. A pure pick up style of basketball. First me style of ball. And then the rest of the team.... ok, this is not only to him, small part of that blame goes to KD as well, but only a small part because he's a waay better offensive player then Russ is. First I thought it's because of Scotty Brooks, but now I see that they play the same style with the new coach. Just give me the ball and spread out. Get the hell of my way... Somewhere I read that Ibaka is getting only two shots per fourth quarter. That's 2 shots for one of the best forwards in the game...someone also said about his comments about Smart after we kicked their asses. Now if that is a grown man's all star nba superstar face of the franchise answer to the reporters then excuse me please, but I would have my Smart, AB and Crowder all day long. We could argue how he would be under Brad Stevens....
One more thing, and maybe that don't have to mean anything, but Westbrook and KD will never win an NBA championship together. I'm just an average NBA fan, but I have seen enough of basketball in my 36 yrs that I can tell.

The new coach looks pretty mediocre as well.

OKC should have gone out and signed an NBA proven top quality coach instead of a college coach. They shouldn't be wasting any more years on sub-standard to mediocre coaches.

[KeepRondo]

You don't want Westbrook?

Look at IT4 in Steven's system. Westbrook would be like a steroid version of IT4 in Steven's system.

Well, maybe including Russ in that list of players was bit of a rush and misleading. He is a amazing player with out of this world athletics... but, the thing with him is that he doesn't make his players better. Just look at that OKC team throughout the years and tell me if they weren't talented and good enough to win a championship, or at least play in more finals or even conference finals? Who they got? They got Russ, KD, Ibaka and bunch of good role players always. Russ is a PG and he should make his team mates better, and I can't see he is doing that. Look at the way they play. This is one dimensional basketball. A pure pick up style of basketball. First me style of ball. And then the rest of the team.... ok, this is not only to him, small part of that blame goes to KD as well, but only a small part because he's a waay better offensive player then Russ is. First I thought it's because of Scotty Brooks, but now I see that they play the same style with the new coach. Just give me the ball and spread out. Get the hell of my way... Somewhere I read that Ibaka is getting only two shots per fourth quarter. That's 2 shots for one of the best forwards in the game...someone also said about his comments about Smart after we kicked their asses. Now if that is a grown man's all star nba superstar face of the franchise answer to the reporters then excuse me please, but I would have my Smart, AB and Crowder all day long. We could argue how he would be under Brad Stevens....
One more thing, and maybe that don't have to mean anything, but Westbrook and KD will never win an NBA championship together. I'm just an average NBA fan, but I have seen enough of basketball in my 36 yrs that I can tell.

Timing is everything. Durant and Westbrook ran into Lebron and Wade. Durant also got hurt one year. And now if it wasn't for one of the best all time teams(Warriors) sprouting up from no where, the Thunder would be favorites with the Spurs to come out of the West again. 

Also we run a lot of give the ball to IT and get out of his way. You need players like that.

[CroCorvus]

- LBJ - don't feel the need to elaborate - hate him even more after Blatt scandal.
- Melo - don't feel the need to elaborate - he's all about Melo brand
- CP3 - great player who just doesn't win when it counts (he had pretty good teams). he's very sneaky and mean, great flopper (did you watch our last game against them? oh my god, if I was there I would smack him in the face... HE AND BG WILL NEVER WIN C'SHIP TOGETHER.
- Wade - any real C's fan hate his guts. A poser and real fake tough guy. But great player, you can't take that out of him.
- JR Smith - headcase
- Harden - he lost me in the finals against the Heat when he disappeared somewhere in south beach partying...
- Whiteside - great potential which someone will overpay in the offseason. Hope we are not that team. I see Larry Sanders in him.
- Blake Griffin - fake tough guy, no real leader, very childish...
- Markief Morris - headcase
- Lance - headcase
- DMC - great player with the teenage brain...
- Westbrook - said it before
- Gay - talent is there he just doesn't care...

[CroCorvus]

You don't want Westbrook?

Look at IT4 in Steven's system. Westbrook would be like a steroid version of IT4 in Steven's system.

Well, maybe including Russ in that list of players was bit of a rush and misleading. He is a amazing player with out of this world athletics... but, the thing with him is that he doesn't make his players better. Just look at that OKC team throughout the years and tell me if they weren't talented and good enough to win a championship, or at least play in more finals or even conference finals? Who they got? They got Russ, KD, Ibaka and bunch of good role players always. Russ is a PG and he should make his team mates better, and I can't see he is doing that. Look at the way they play. This is one dimensional basketball. A pure pick up style of basketball. First me style of ball. And then the rest of the team.... ok, this is not only to him, small part of that blame goes to KD as well, but only a small part because he's a waay better offensive player then Russ is. First I thought it's because of Scotty Brooks, but now I see that they play the same style with the new coach. Just give me the ball and spread out. Get the hell of my way... Somewhere I read that Ibaka is getting only two shots per fourth quarter. That's 2 shots for one of the best forwards in the game...someone also said about his comments about Smart after we kicked their asses. Now if that is a grown man's all star nba superstar face of the franchise answer to the reporters then excuse me please, but I would have my Smart, AB and Crowder all day long. We could argue how he would be under Brad Stevens....
One more thing, and maybe that don't have to mean anything, but Westbrook and KD will never win an NBA championship together. I'm just an average NBA fan, but I have seen enough of basketball in my 36 yrs that I can tell.

Timing is everything. Durant and Westbrook ran into Lebron and Wade. Durant also got hurt one year. And now if it wasn't for one of the best all time teams(Warriors) sprouting up from no where, the Thunder would be favorites with the Spurs to come out of the West again. 

Also we run a lot of give the ball to IT and get out of his way. You need players like that.

Agree but you need the system and they don't have it, and that's why they are predictable. You said it right, there will always be someone better...

[CroCorvus]

You don't want Westbrook?

Look at IT4 in Steven's system. Westbrook would be like a steroid version of IT4 in Steven's system.

Well, maybe including Russ in that list of players was bit of a rush and misleading. He is a amazing player with out of this world athletics... but, the thing with him is that he doesn't make his players better. Just look at that OKC team throughout the years and tell me if they weren't talented and good enough to win a championship, or at least play in more finals or even conference finals? Who they got? They got Russ, KD, Ibaka and bunch of good role players always. Russ is a PG and he should make his team mates better, and I can't see he is doing that. Look at the way they play. This is one dimensional basketball. A pure pick up style of basketball. First me style of ball. And then the rest of the team.... ok, this is not only to him, small part of that blame goes to KD as well, but only a small part because he's a waay better offensive player then Russ is. First I thought it's because of Scotty Brooks, but now I see that they play the same style with the new coach. Just give me the ball and spread out. Get the hell of my way... Somewhere I read that Ibaka is getting only two shots per fourth quarter. That's 2 shots for one of the best forwards in the game...someone also said about his comments about Smart after we kicked their asses. Now if that is a grown man's all star nba superstar face of the franchise answer to the reporters then excuse me please, but I would have my Smart, AB and Crowder all day long. We could argue how he would be under Brad Stevens....
One more thing, and maybe that don't have to mean anything, but Westbrook and KD will never win an NBA championship together. I'm just an average NBA fan, but I have seen enough of basketball in my 36 yrs that I can tell.

The new coach looks pretty mediocre as well.

OKC should have gone out and signed an NBA proven top quality coach instead of a college coach. They shouldn't be wasting any more years on sub-standard to mediocre coaches.

Well maybe that's the problem, don't you think? You ever wonder why Lebron's always having some rookie coaches? You're welcome.

[CroCorvus]

I'm not sure I'd consider nearly half the guys on the OP's list to be "toxic".

Well, maybe "toxic" is a harsh and not completely adequate word in this case. Dislikeable, don't want them near our backyard players.