Author Topic: As with Bender, same question with Ingram  (Read 3366 times)

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As with Bender, same question with Ingram
« on: February 12, 2016, 12:31:42 AM »

Offline coffee425

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Brandon Ingram has the clear basketball skills to be successful in the league and has the potential to be a star.
All of his weaknesses involve his lack of physical strength (attacking the rim, rebounding, defense), and boy does he definitely lack that. 
So just as i posted a while ago about Dragan Bender (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=82745.0), what is the Physical Potential/Comparison that you could expect Brandon to grow into?

For me, i think he has the body type to grow into what Anthony Davis is now. They had the same build in college and their shoulders are good for growth. I am highly concerned with his lower body though, but so was the same concern on Karl Anthony Towns.
When Unibrow was 6'9 in 2010, his DE profile had him listed at 190lbs. Coincidentally that's what Brandon is listed right now at Duke. Has anyone seen how jacked Unibrow is recently? If Brandon gets to this weight/build, this kid is gonna be unstoppable.

Other possible physical comparisons: Travis Outlaw, Durant, Rudy Gay, Batum, Tayshaun Prince, Brent Barry...

« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 11:20:08 AM by coffee425 »
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Even at the end of the game, we lined up in different formation that he hadn't seen and he called out our play before I got the ball. I heard him calling it out. -John Wall on Brad Stevens

Re: As with Bender, same question with Ingram
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2016, 01:24:07 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Although he will need to add some strength/weight for the NBA, Ingram is actually pretty good at attacking the rim, playing defense and rebounding.  He has generally held his own playing PF against bigger players.  He is stronger than you think and he uses his length very well in all phases of the game. 

Re: As with Bender, same question with Ingram
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2016, 02:31:19 AM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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You forget to mention he is literally 1.3 years younger than Simmons and really should be a hs senior. So all of those weaknesses will clear up naturally, IMO, because its just fact that you gain muscle easier from 17-21.

I get what you mean but he's not AD. They both are hybrid type players but Ingram has less of a wingspan and 1.5 inches shorter (maybe even less like 1-1.25). Ingram is actually very athletic and eventually will be able to play 1-5.

The best comparison is T-Mac meets KD meets AD. Ingrams quickness, handle and play as pg on AAU make me think that he may be a 2 depending on the team. Also I think it would be easier at first to put him at the 2 bc of his age and strength

Re: As with Bender, same question with Ingram
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2016, 04:35:50 AM »

Offline cltc5

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He's the best player in the draft. 

Re: As with Bender, same question with Ingram
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2016, 06:53:22 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
All of his weaknesses involve his lack of physical strength (attacking the rim, rebounding, defense), and boy does he definitely lack that. 

This is true, but it is pretty superficial.   

Bender scores 4 points per game, and is not a good offensive talent.

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Dragan-Bender/Summary/41582

Ingram can shoot and score 16.9 PPG.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3913176/brandon-ingram

This means Bender lacks some of the skills that Ingram does in all honesty at this point.  He is still young and has time to improve it, but he is a bigger risk than Ingram.

How can guys not see this?   I think they choose not to see it.

Re: As with Bender, same question with Ingram
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2016, 11:18:44 AM »

Offline coffee425

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You forget to mention he is literally 1.3 years younger than Simmons and really should be a hs senior. So all of those weaknesses will clear up naturally, IMO, because its just fact that you gain muscle easier from 17-21.

I get what you mean but he's not AD. They both are hybrid type players but Ingram has less of a wingspan and 1.5 inches shorter (maybe even less like 1-1.25). Ingram is actually very athletic and eventually will be able to play 1-5.

The best comparison is T-Mac meets KD meets AD. Ingrams quickness, handle and play as pg on AAU make me think that he may be a 2 depending on the team. Also I think it would be easier at first to put him at the 2 bc of his age and strength


Right, i was comparing Brandon to what Anthony Davis measured at in 2010: which was 6'9, 190, 7'2 wingspan (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Anthony-Davis-6236/). Identical to what Brandon was just measured at right before he stepped onto Duke.

Again, I'm not doing basketball comparisons with Brandon. I'm only trying to visually what he can physically grow into. The reason that I used Anthony Davis is because of their slender builds with wide shoulders. I know they have completely different skillsets. I know the McGrady/Durant comparisons fit more of his basketball identity, but those two guys have very narrow shoulders and thicker waists.

With muscle, I still believe that Brandon's physical potential is Anthony Davis and Travis Outlaw. Still lean and lanky, but enough shoulder mass to clear a little space when needed
Quote
Even at the end of the game, we lined up in different formation that he hadn't seen and he called out our play before I got the ball. I heard him calling it out. -John Wall on Brad Stevens

Re: As with Bender, same question with Ingram
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2016, 06:16:53 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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You forget to mention he is literally 1.3 years younger than Simmons and really should be a hs senior. So all of those weaknesses will clear up naturally, IMO, because its just fact that you gain muscle easier from 17-21.

I get what you mean but he's not AD. They both are hybrid type players but Ingram has less of a wingspan and 1.5 inches shorter (maybe even less like 1-1.25). Ingram is actually very athletic and eventually will be able to play 1-5.

The best comparison is T-Mac meets KD meets AD. Ingrams quickness, handle and play as pg on AAU make me think that he may be a 2 depending on the team. Also I think it would be easier at first to put him at the 2 bc of his age and strength


Right, i was comparing Brandon to what Anthony Davis measured at in 2010: which was 6'9, 190, 7'2 wingspan (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Anthony-Davis-6236/). Identical to what Brandon was just measured at right before he stepped onto Duke.

Again, I'm not doing basketball comparisons with Brandon. I'm only trying to visually what he can physically grow into. The reason that I used Anthony Davis is because of their slender builds with wide shoulders. I know they have completely different skillsets. I know the McGrady/Durant comparisons fit more of his basketball identity, but those two guys have very narrow shoulders and thicker waists.

With muscle, I still believe that Brandon's physical potential is Anthony Davis and Travis Outlaw. Still lean and lanky, but enough shoulder mass to clear a little space when needed
Mike Schmitz from DraftExpress compared Ingram to Giannis from a physical potential standpoint.  I don't expect physicality to be much of an issue for Ingram.  He'll play SG/SF in the NBA.   
http://duke.247sports.com/Bolt/Brandon-Ingram-draws-lofty-comparison-43625138

Re: As with Bender, same question with Ingram
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2016, 08:00:07 PM »

Offline Grindfather

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Quote
All of his weaknesses involve his lack of physical strength (attacking the rim, rebounding, defense), and boy does he definitely lack that. 

This is true, but it is pretty superficial.   

Bender scores 4 points per game, and is not a good offensive talent.

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Dragan-Bender/Summary/41582

Ingram can shoot and score 16.9 PPG.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3913176/brandon-ingram

This means Bender lacks some of the skills that Ingram does in all honesty at this point.  He is still young and has time to improve it, but he is a bigger risk than Ingram.

How can guys not see this?   I think they choose not to see it.

Bender plays in a professional basketball league against men who are 5-15 years older than him, Ingram plays against other 18-21 year olds. You can't directly compare their counting stats and draw any kind of meaningful conclusions.

Re: As with Bender, same question with Ingram
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2016, 08:11:11 PM »

Offline jdz101

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For guards and wings you always pick skill, athleticism and basketball talent over strength in the NBA. EVERY time.


how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was chris bosh?

Re: As with Bender, same question with Ingram
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2016, 08:32:16 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Bender plays in a professional basketball league against men who are 5-15 years older than him, Ingram plays against other 18-21 year olds. You can't directly compare their counting stats and draw any kind of meaningful conclusions

Excuses are like you know what....

By that logic, anyone who has played in the NCAAs is playing against poor competition.  I would point the amateur record of the US vs. these professional leagues you speak of, we both know it is a poor record indeed.  We had a nice run in the Olympic with boys playing against those men.  So that blows your feeble argument out of the water.

In fact, a lot of guys from the USA choose to go other and play when they can't make it in our pros yet Euro teams take them gladly.   A large portion of American pros and Canadian play in the NCAAs.   

Re: As with Bender, same question with Ingram
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2016, 12:15:46 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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Bender plays in a professional basketball league against men who are 5-15 years older than him, Ingram plays against other 18-21 year olds. You can't directly compare their counting stats and draw any kind of meaningful conclusions

Excuses are like you know what....

By that logic, anyone who has played in the NCAAs is playing against poor competition.  I would point the amateur record of the US vs. these professional leagues you speak of, we both know it is a poor record indeed.  We had a nice run in the Olympic with boys playing against those men.  So that blows your feeble argument out of the water.

In fact, a lot of guys from the USA choose to go other and play when they can't make it in our pros yet Euro teams take them gladly.   A large portion of American pros and Canadian play in the NCAAs.

You make decent points about the caliber of competition, but he's right that comparing stats is a poor way to draw conclusions about them.

Re: As with Bender, same question with Ingram
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2016, 02:21:05 PM »

Offline Denis998

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Quote
All of his weaknesses involve his lack of physical strength (attacking the rim, rebounding, defense), and boy does he definitely lack that. 

This is true, but it is pretty superficial.   

Bender scores 4 points per game, and is not a good offensive talent.

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Dragan-Bender/Summary/41582

Ingram can shoot and score 16.9 PPG.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3913176/brandon-ingram

This means Bender lacks some of the skills that Ingram does in all honesty at this point.  He is still young and has time to improve it, but he is a bigger risk than Ingram.

How can guys not see this?   I think they choose not to see it.

Bender plays in a professional basketball league against men who are 5-15 years older than him, Ingram plays against other 18-21 year olds. You can't directly compare their counting stats and draw any kind of meaningful conclusions.
I don't know that you could really call what Bender is doing in the Euro league as "Playing". The guy rides the pine harder than (insert joke here).

Re: As with Bender, same question with Ingram
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2016, 02:24:49 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Bender plays in a professional basketball league against men who are 5-15 years older than him, Ingram plays against other 18-21 year olds. You can't directly compare their counting stats and draw any kind of meaningful conclusions.
The fact that Bender is 17 does not automatically imply that everyone he plays against is 22 or older.
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