Author Topic: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations  (Read 8879 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2016, 07:06:39 AM »

Offline Dino Pitino

  • NCE
  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1822
  • Tommy Points: 219
Howard would be even more valuable once the new hack a shaq rules are implemented too. Less free throw shenanigans.

Unfortunately, we'd have to pay him the new max until he's 36 in order to enjoy that new wrinkle.

As an aside, I can't remember another player where fan opinions were as wildly divided between "Get him, but only if we re-sign him" and "Get him, but only if we don't re-sign him"...
"Young man, you have the question backwards." - Bill Russell

"My guess is that an aggregator of expert opinions would be close in terms of results to that of Danny." - Roy H.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2016, 07:30:30 AM »

Offline Ogaju

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19479
  • Tommy Points: 1871
even if Howard is a rental doesn't he have potential value for a sign and trade?

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2016, 07:34:56 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13129
  • Tommy Points: 885
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/here-s-what-the-trade-market-for-dwight-howard-looks-like-011422278.html


Unsurprisingly, Marks suggests the Celtics are the best trade partner. Here's his hypothetical deal:

Howard and Montrezl Harrell for Lee, Jerebko, 2016 Dallas First, 2016 Boston First

This is the exact sort of deal I would be okay with for Howard. Minimal risk, high reward (Harrell would be an awesome throw in too).

Interesting. I would be tempted to do the deal just to get Harrell.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2016, 07:40:04 AM »

Online BitterJim

  • NGT
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8913
  • Tommy Points: 1212
even if Howard is a rental doesn't he have potential value for a sign and trade?

With all the cap space people will have this year (and the change under the new CBA that doesn't allow bird rights to affect S&Ts), there's really no value in it
I'm bitter.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2016, 07:42:18 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2493
  • Tommy Points: 199
Quote
The reasoning is that if things fall apart and Howard walks we would still have JJ's deal to match in a trade for Cousins were that to materialise.

Won't we (and every other team) have enough cap space to absorb any contract? We could theoretically trade picks for Cousins, straight up.

Interesting...I guess we could. So the only impact would be a draft night trade where we are still working with this year's cap. Although it is still worth remembering that $20m in cap space can sign a $20m player, whereas $20m of contracts can bring back $25m back, so there is still more benefit in keeping JJ than having cap space.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2016, 07:53:17 AM »

Offline cman88

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5153
  • Tommy Points: 359
maybe I havent watched enough Houston rockets games, but is it me or is howard not the same "unstoppable force" he was in orlando? seemed in orlando you could pair him with a bunch of ok shooters and he dominated.

Houston is a much better team, but they havent seemed to meet expectations.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2016, 07:59:56 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2493
  • Tommy Points: 199
I like the idea of a 3 team trade that sends Howard to Atlanta and Horford to us

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=h7aegc9

We send Houston the BOS + MIN 2016
We send Atlanta the DAL 2016

you can remove Zeller and Holiday and the maths still works if you would rather not do that.

It's a better return for Houston than the proposed Bobby Marks deal with the C's. Atlanta get a star in return for Horford and Teague in Howard and get Harrell, a young prospect. Howard would likely need to agree to opt in to seal it.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2016, 08:02:36 AM »

Online Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47136
  • Tommy Points: 2401
maybe I havent watched enough Houston rockets games, but is it me or is howard not the same "unstoppable force" he was in orlando? seemed in orlando you could pair him with a bunch of ok shooters and he dominated.

Houston is a much better team, but they havent seemed to meet expectations.

Howard is nowhere close to the player he was in Orlando. Those back injuries have taken too much of physical advantage away from him. Still a very good athlete but no longer the freak of nature he once was.

Gone from MVP candidate to possible (not certain) All-Star player - which is still pretty valuable. 

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2016, 08:25:52 AM »

Offline danglertx

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2015
  • Tommy Points: 210
Two firsts for a guy who is essentially a half year rental?  No way!  If we were talking about a true difference making guy who deserves a max deal so his bird rights would matter, then yeah.  Howard isn't that guy anymore.  He brings some strengths, but also comes with liabilities.

I'd do one first, Amir, and a second with Jerebko and that's about it. 

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2016, 08:38:45 AM »

Offline Dino Pitino

  • NCE
  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1822
  • Tommy Points: 219
Two firsts for a guy who is essentially a half year rental?  No way!  If we were talking about a true difference making guy who deserves a max deal so his bird rights would matter, then yeah.  Howard isn't that guy anymore.  He brings some strengths, but also comes with liabilities.

I'd do one first, Amir, and a second with Jerebko and that's about it.

Amir is worth much more to us than the 24th pick in the draft. We have too many picks. We already have too much mid-late 1st talent at the end of the roster. Two non-Nets 1sts is worth the chance to make the Finals.
"Young man, you have the question backwards." - Bill Russell

"My guess is that an aggregator of expert opinions would be close in terms of results to that of Danny." - Roy H.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2016, 09:05:36 AM »

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
Dwight Howard would be an enormous upgrade for our team on so many levels.
We have the right locker room to reign him in. He will be the man, but he'll be held accountable.
If Kevin Mchale loves him, there's a reason for it.

It's apparent that those people slinging mud on Howard didn't watch much of last year's playoffs- a playoffs where he was coming back from a back injury which saw him sit out 75% of the regular season. He was dominant in the paint on the defensive end and without him they would never have gotten to the Western Conference finals.

At age 30, he's missed time with injuries- and those injuries mean he's not the same as 2009-2010 Dwight Howard- but it also means he's basically had 2 seasons without any playing time on his legs- so his legs are fresher than most 30 year olds.

We don't need him to be an elite scorer, we just need him to be a bigger, stronger, more imposing version of Amir Johnson that will put fear into the minds of Lebron or Kyrie Irving driving to the basket.

His 14 points and 12 rebounds per game would be a nice bonus, and the changes to the hack a shaq rule will also mean he's less of a liability from that standpoint.

If we can trade for Dwight Howard knowing that he'd be willing to re-sign here, then we should 100% pull the trigger on packages that don't include IT,Crowder,Bradley, Smart, the Brooklyn picks or Olynyk.

Just think for a second about the following line up and the defensive power and three point/spacing of that line up:

IT
Bradley
Crowder
Olynyk
Howard

switching to

Smart
Bradley
Crowder
Olynyk
Howard

Dwight Howard on our team would arguably make us the best defensive team in the NBA with no exaggeration. Not many guys in the NBA can claim that.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2016, 09:07:28 AM »

Offline wdleehi

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34023
  • Tommy Points: 1607
  • Basketball is Newtonian Physics
DWight Howard would be an enormous upgrade for our team on so many levels.
We have the right locker room to reign him in. He will be the man, but he'll be held accountable.
If Kevin Mchale loves him, there's a reason for it.

It's apparent that those people slinging mud on Howard didn't watch much of last year's playoffs- a playoffs where he was coming back from a back injury which saw him sit out 75% of the regular season. He was dominant in the paint on the defensive end and without him they would never have gotten to the Western Conference finals.

At age 30, he's missed time with injuries- and those injuries mean he's not the same as 2009-2010 Dwight Howard- but it also means he's basically had 2 seasons without any playing time on his legs- so his legs are fresher than most 30 year olds.

We don't need him to be an elite scorer, we just need him to be a bigger, stronger, more imposing version of Amir Johnson that will put fear into the minds of Lebron or Kyrie Irving driving to the basket.

His 14 points per game would be a nice bonus, and the changes to the hack a shaq rule will also mean he's less of a liability from that standpoint.

If we can trade for Dwight Howard knowing that he'd be willing to re-sign here, then we should 100% pull the trigger on packages that don't include IT,Crowder,Bradley, Smart, the Brooklyn picks or Olynyk.



Here is the other thing, he is a great defender surrounded by a terrible defense.


Now imagine how more effective he becomes with Boston's defense around him.   

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2016, 09:13:37 AM »

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
DWight Howard would be an enormous upgrade for our team on so many levels.
We have the right locker room to reign him in. He will be the man, but he'll be held accountable.
If Kevin Mchale loves him, there's a reason for it.

It's apparent that those people slinging mud on Howard didn't watch much of last year's playoffs- a playoffs where he was coming back from a back injury which saw him sit out 75% of the regular season. He was dominant in the paint on the defensive end and without him they would never have gotten to the Western Conference finals.

At age 30, he's missed time with injuries- and those injuries mean he's not the same as 2009-2010 Dwight Howard- but it also means he's basically had 2 seasons without any playing time on his legs- so his legs are fresher than most 30 year olds.

We don't need him to be an elite scorer, we just need him to be a bigger, stronger, more imposing version of Amir Johnson that will put fear into the minds of Lebron or Kyrie Irving driving to the basket.

His 14 points per game would be a nice bonus, and the changes to the hack a shaq rule will also mean he's less of a liability from that standpoint.

If we can trade for Dwight Howard knowing that he'd be willing to re-sign here, then we should 100% pull the trigger on packages that don't include IT,Crowder,Bradley, Smart, the Brooklyn picks or Olynyk.



Here is the other thing, he is a great defender surrounded by a terrible defense.


Now imagine how more effective he becomes with Boston's defense around him.

Exactly- he wouldn't have to worry about weak side help, or recovering in the pick and roll- he'd also help our pick and roll defense which is our number one defensive weakness as we saw vs the Clippers and DeAndre the other night.
His ability to alter shots around the rim is something we haven't had since KG.
Just having Crowder, Bradley, Smart and Howard is literally the hardest defensive foursome in the NBA- having IT throwing him lobs would be easy buckets too.

"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2016, 09:33:48 AM »

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2016, 09:37:37 AM »

Offline ssspence

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6375
  • Tommy Points: 403
I'm starting to lean away from such a deal. I don't think Howard puts us over the top in 2016, and I don't care to resign Howard this summer.

Horford is a different story.
Mike

(My name is not Mike)