Author Topic: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations  (Read 8871 times)

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Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2016, 10:44:35 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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Howard on a two month rental wouldn't be that bad. He's VERY much a follower, not a leader, and if were not giving up any of our core I think he would fall in line.

That said, unless he's signing a short-term deal, Idk if I'd want to resign him.
He's certainly not a FA draw. He's very unpopular amongst players. IT is VERY popular amongst other players, so I think Howard would hamper our efforts on that front.

Still, if your not giving up any major assets for him, it may be worth the gamble. If all goes right, the IT/Howard P&R would be devastating and swapping out someone like Sully or Jerebko for him could push us towards being a real challenge for the Cavs in the ECF. Were always talking about how Danny can't use all these assets going forward, and consolidating them HAS to happen in some shape or form. If we can use Lee, Sully and a non-Brooklyn 1st (plus maybe the MIN pick) for a Howard rental that gives us a chance to make a deep playoff run it might be worth it. We have so many decent picks, we have the flexibility to do something like this. Even if it doesn't work out, we would've had to consolidate some picks/expirings (or RFA's) anyway.

Horford is still a MUCH better fit for this team though. He's the guy I'd want for the same kind of deal.

No way I would take Horford over Howard for the same deal - I think Howard is a much better for for this team.  He fills a number of desperate needs, while Horford doesn't really fill any (and is just an upgrade on what we already have). 

Howard is IMHO a significantly better player than Horford, and would have significantly more positive impact on this team.

I can totally understand that. I see it, Howard has elite defensive capabilities. If you just plug him into Amir's spot you might have the top defense in the league. That could just be miserable for a lot of teams to play against. Plus, not only would the IT/Howard P&R be really hard to stop but if you surround them with Bradley, Crowder and Kelly (or Jerebko and Smart for that matter) you might have enough shooting to make that line-up VERY difficult on both ends of the floor. Certainly could make us take the next step up if all went perfectly. I think him and KO could make a really good pairing. But Still, a lot of players really hate him, both teammates and opponents. He's gotten better but still has his fair share of immature antics and does some really stupid things on/off court. Doesn't really fit the mold of the culture we've been so successful building here.

Horford has none of those concerns though, and while we may not be quite as good on D, on the boards or as a roll man than Dwight, he still does all of those things at a high level. He'd get some more rebounds playing next to guys like Kelly and Jerebko than he does next to Millsap and Splitter. Plus, he's not a liability in crunch time, can step out past then 3 point line and most importantly is an excellent passer. Having bigs who can pass is key to a lot of CBS' offense. He's also a very good P&R defender and is more than adequate protecting the rim (better than Amir, who's pretty decent). High IQ.

Add in that I'd probably be much more inclined to re-sign Horford going forward than I would Howard and I'd just much rather go that route. Also, if a Howard trade went horribly wrong (think Rondo in Dallas), he could possibly opt in, so we'd be stuck and hampered by paying him another 20$M after a bad experience. Totally understand why Some might think Dwight was the better fit though. Lot can happen after the deadline, so if one of the deals happen we could be totally wrong.

But I think the idea of combining a small handful of medium assets (which we have just a huge glut of) into a guy who's expiring like Horford or Howard and trying to accelerate this impressive playoff push while consolidating some of our dearth of assets, I can get behind that. I like to think our team can handle losing Lee and Sully and stay the same. Even if it was Howard coming in.

Getting Horford over Howard would be such a Danny Ainge move: getting the less talented but more gritty/moral person over the more talented but not as gritty/immature player. Not that there's anything wrong with this, it's just become Danny's style through the years.
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Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2016, 10:54:59 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I've been an advocate of Howard (over Horford) since trade ideas started up; I would love to him for the proposed deal. Harrell would also be awesome and I don't mind giving up the 2nd first in order to get him - was a big fan of his last year and was surprised he dropped so low. His tenacity and energy would fit in extremely well with our team.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2016, 11:31:58 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Dwight Howard is poison. He's been poison to every team he's played for. He's very good at certain things, but he's probably only half the player he could've been if it wasn't for his poor attitude. He's never led a team to the promised land, and there's no reason to think he'll change his tune now.

He carried a pretty crappy Magic team to the Finals.

That's a very good point. 

He also transformed the Rockets from nobody to somebody.  They were pretty crap before Howard came over and nobody took them very seriously.  Last year they made quite a bit of noise in the playoffs.

In fact  if you think about it, other than the Lakers superteam (which was a disaster) Howard really hasn't played on any bad teams.  All of his Orlando teams were competitive, and the Rockets have been competitive pretty much the whole time he's been there.

Hard to argue with that.

I don't think Orlando would've gotten past Boston in the conference semis if KG had been playing. As it was, it took the Magic 7 games to beat the Celtics.

I never intended to suggest that Howard's teams haven't been good—his raw talent alone is going to be a big help to any team—but he's had a lot of attitude problems throughout his career, and I don't think he's done much to improve as a player—he's never developed a midrange shot, or developed a post game beyond an ugly running half-hook. I agree that he's (seemingly) been better in Houston, but I just don't think his head's in the right place.

I agree that he's been (at least seemingly) a better presence in Houston,
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Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2016, 11:50:38 PM »

Offline bballdog384

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What about Howard and Korver?

Korver might be the best fit from Atlanta if they decide to fire-sale..
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Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2016, 12:30:07 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Dwight Howard is poison. He's been poison to every team he's played for. He's very good at certain things, but he's probably only half the player he could've been if it wasn't for his poor attitude. He's never led a team to the promised land, and there's no reason to think he'll change his tune now.

He carried a pretty crappy Magic team to the Finals.

That's a very good point. 

He also transformed the Rockets from nobody to somebody.  They were pretty crap before Howard came over and nobody took them very seriously.  Last year they made quite a bit of noise in the playoffs.

In fact  if you think about it, other than the Lakers superteam (which was a disaster) Howard really hasn't played on any bad teams.  All of his Orlando teams were competitive, and the Rockets have been competitive pretty much the whole time he's been there.

Hard to argue with that.

I don't think Orlando would've gotten past Boston in the conference semis if KG had been playing. As it was, it took the Magic 7 games to beat the Celtics.

I never intended to suggest that Howard's teams haven't been good—his raw talent alone is going to be a big help to any team—but he's had a lot of attitude problems throughout his career, and I don't think he's done much to improve as a player—he's never developed a midrange shot, or developed a post game beyond an ugly running half-hook. I agree that he's (seemingly) been better in Houston, but I just don't think his head's in the right place.

I agree that he's been (at least seemingly) a better presence in Houston,

The thing is though, he's never really needed a mid-range shot or a post game.

He is 4th all-time in FG%, 25th All-Time in FT attempts.  The guy averages 18 PPG for his career on only 11 FGA, which is absolutely ridiculous. 

That's the value of Dwight. 

He doesn't need a million plays called for him, or the entire offense run through him, in order for him to be productive and efficient on offense.  You can run your game as you please, and he will get his points in the flow of the offense.  He's not going to shoot you out of games Kobe/Westbrook style by chucking up contested long range jumpers all night. 

He is the perfect complimentary star - run your offense though Isaiah Thomas as your go to guy, and Dwight will quietly get his points off P&R, offensive rebounds and hustle points. 

Then on the other end of the floor, he will make every team that faces us think long and hard about whether they REALLY want to try drive into the paint.

Plus it would be nice to be on the other end of all those elbows for a chance - let us be the ones dealing them instead of being the ones taking them lol

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2016, 01:52:00 AM »

Offline aingeforthree

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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/here-s-what-the-trade-market-for-dwight-howard-looks-like-011422278.html


Unsurprisingly, Marks suggests the Celtics are the best trade partner. Here's his hypothetical deal:

Howard and Montrezl Harrell for Lee, Jerebko, 2016 Dallas First, 2016 Boston First

This is the exact sort of deal I would be okay with for Howard. Minimal risk, high reward (Harrell would be an awesome throw in too).

That's a garbage offer for a BIG like Howard. Morey should be fired if Ainge gets away with that.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2016, 02:06:10 AM »

Offline max215

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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/here-s-what-the-trade-market-for-dwight-howard-looks-like-011422278.html


Unsurprisingly, Marks suggests the Celtics are the best trade partner. Here's his hypothetical deal:

Howard and Montrezl Harrell for Lee, Jerebko, 2016 Dallas First, 2016 Boston First

This is the exact sort of deal I would be okay with for Howard. Minimal risk, high reward (Harrell would be an awesome throw in too).

That's a garbage offer for a BIG like Howard. Morey should be fired if Ainge gets away with that.

That was conceived by a former NBA Assistant GM. No offense, but I think he's a little more qualified to determine a 'fair' trade than anyone on this board.
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Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2016, 02:11:52 AM »

Offline aingeforthree

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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/here-s-what-the-trade-market-for-dwight-howard-looks-like-011422278.html


Unsurprisingly, Marks suggests the Celtics are the best trade partner. Here's his hypothetical deal:

Howard and Montrezl Harrell for Lee, Jerebko, 2016 Dallas First, 2016 Boston First

This is the exact sort of deal I would be okay with for Howard. Minimal risk, high reward (Harrell would be an awesome throw in too).

That's a garbage offer for a BIG like Howard. Morey should be fired if Ainge gets away with that.

That was conceived by a former NBA Assistant GM. No offense, but I think he's a little more qualified to determine a 'fair' trade than anyone on this board.

No offense taken. All speculation, like always.

As you know, to each their own. I also thought Ainge's offer for IT4 was a garbage offer, and Phoenix took it. So again, you never know.


Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2016, 02:16:26 AM »

Offline max215

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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/here-s-what-the-trade-market-for-dwight-howard-looks-like-011422278.html


Unsurprisingly, Marks suggests the Celtics are the best trade partner. Here's his hypothetical deal:

Howard and Montrezl Harrell for Lee, Jerebko, 2016 Dallas First, 2016 Boston First

This is the exact sort of deal I would be okay with for Howard. Minimal risk, high reward (Harrell would be an awesome throw in too).

That's a garbage offer for a BIG like Howard. Morey should be fired if Ainge gets away with that.

That was conceived by a former NBA Assistant GM. No offense, but I think he's a little more qualified to determine a 'fair' trade than anyone on this board.

No offense taken. All speculation, like always.

As you know, to each their own. I also thought Ainge's offer for IT4 was a garbage offer, and Phoenix took it. So again, you never know.

Haha, well you were right about the Phoenix offer.
Isaiah, you were lightning in a bottle.

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Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2016, 02:22:07 AM »

Offline aingeforthree

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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/here-s-what-the-trade-market-for-dwight-howard-looks-like-011422278.html


Unsurprisingly, Marks suggests the Celtics are the best trade partner. Here's his hypothetical deal:

Howard and Montrezl Harrell for Lee, Jerebko, 2016 Dallas First, 2016 Boston First

This is the exact sort of deal I would be okay with for Howard. Minimal risk, high reward (Harrell would be an awesome throw in too).

That's a garbage offer for a BIG like Howard. Morey should be fired if Ainge gets away with that.

That was conceived by a former NBA Assistant GM. No offense, but I think he's a little more qualified to determine a 'fair' trade than anyone on this board.

No offense taken. All speculation, like always.

As you know, to each their own. I also thought Ainge's offer for IT4 was a garbage offer, and Phoenix took it. So again, you never know.

Haha, well you were right about the Phoenix offer.

And that's just it. Everybody's different, & every GM values players differently. So who knows.

If Ainge lands him for that proposed offer, I'll be extremely impressed (I'm already impressed with Ainge and his trading capabilities but still, this would be his largest steal of a trade IMO)

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2016, 02:27:00 AM »

Offline max215

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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/here-s-what-the-trade-market-for-dwight-howard-looks-like-011422278.html


Unsurprisingly, Marks suggests the Celtics are the best trade partner. Here's his hypothetical deal:

Howard and Montrezl Harrell for Lee, Jerebko, 2016 Dallas First, 2016 Boston First

This is the exact sort of deal I would be okay with for Howard. Minimal risk, high reward (Harrell would be an awesome throw in too).

That's a garbage offer for a BIG like Howard. Morey should be fired if Ainge gets away with that.

That was conceived by a former NBA Assistant GM. No offense, but I think he's a little more qualified to determine a 'fair' trade than anyone on this board.

No offense taken. All speculation, like always.

As you know, to each their own. I also thought Ainge's offer for IT4 was a garbage offer, and Phoenix took it. So again, you never know.

Haha, well you were right about the Phoenix offer.

And that's just it. Everybody's different, & every GM values players differently. So who knows.

If Ainge lands him for that proposed offer, I'll be extremely impressed (I'm already impressed with Ainge and his trading capabilities but still, this would be his largest steal if a trade IMO)

Yeah, I mean there are two very legitimate arguments:

1. Dwight is still a great player and is inherently worth more than those assets.
2. Dwight is an expiring with no reason to resign in Houston with the way they're playing. Houston would be smart to get whatever they can for him.

Personally, I'm in the second camp, but I'm sure there are some GMs in line with #1.
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Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2016, 05:20:55 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/here-s-what-the-trade-market-for-dwight-howard-looks-like-011422278.html


Unsurprisingly, Marks suggests the Celtics are the best trade partner. Here's his hypothetical deal:

Howard and Montrezl Harrell for Lee, Jerebko, 2016 Dallas First, 2016 Boston First

This is the exact sort of deal I would be okay with for Howard. Minimal risk, high reward (Harrell would be an awesome throw in too).

That's a garbage offer for a BIG like Howard. Morey should be fired if Ainge gets away with that.

That was conceived by a former NBA Assistant GM. No offense, but I think he's a little more qualified to determine a 'fair' trade than anyone on this board.

No offense taken. All speculation, like always.

As you know, to each their own. I also thought Ainge's offer for IT4 was a garbage offer, and Phoenix took it. So again, you never know.

Haha, well you were right about the Phoenix offer.

And that's just it. Everybody's different, & every GM values players differently. So who knows.

If Ainge lands him for that proposed offer, I'll be extremely impressed (I'm already impressed with Ainge and his trading capabilities but still, this would be his largest steal if a trade IMO)

Yeah, I mean there are two very legitimate arguments:

1. Dwight is still a great player and is inherently worth more than those assets.
2. Dwight is an expiring with no reason to resign in Houston with the way they're playing. Houston would be smart to get whatever they can for him.

Personally, I'm in the second camp, but I'm sure there are some GMs in line with #1.

Well in the article Bobby Marks suggests that Houston want to make a run at Durant, which would require them to offload Howard and his player option. That's where the speculation comes that they wouldn't want money on the books past this season.

If that is how Houston is thinking then it's a fair offer for both sides.

I'd be interested in what people think about this though:

Lee, Sully, Zeller, DAL 2016, BOS 2016 for Howard, Harrell, Thornton

The reasoning is that if things fall apart and Howard walks we would still have JJ's deal to match in a trade for Cousins were that to materialise. Not sure what I think about it, it has it's own risks that we end up gutting our front line for next season. On top of which I'm not high on Howard anyway, mainly because of attitude and I feel he wouldn't re-sign here.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2016, 06:17:58 AM »

Offline chambers

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Howard would be even more valuable once the new hack a shaq rules are implemented too. Less free throw shenanigans.
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Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2016, 06:55:28 AM »

Offline JBcat

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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/here-s-what-the-trade-market-for-dwight-howard-looks-like-011422278.html


Unsurprisingly, Marks suggests the Celtics are the best trade partner. Here's his hypothetical deal:

Howard and Montrezl Harrell for Lee, Jerebko, 2016 Dallas First, 2016 Boston First

This is the exact sort of deal I would be okay with for Howard. Minimal risk, high reward (Harrell would be an awesome throw in too).

Would do that in a heartbeat - sign me up. 

it feels like boston is the "best trade partner" for every player out there.

To be honest, in a lot of cases Boston probably is.

This specific trade would give us too many big men.

Do people think Horford and Howard could play together?  What if we combine both rumors. :P. Johnson, Sully, Zeller for Horford and Korver.

Why stop there with the rumors.  :P. Hunter and Young for Shabazz.

Throw in our second picks and maybe our own 2018 pick where needed. Ha

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2016, 06:58:00 AM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Quote
The reasoning is that if things fall apart and Howard walks we would still have JJ's deal to match in a trade for Cousins were that to materialise.

Won't we (and every other team) have enough cap space to absorb any contract? We could theoretically trade picks for Cousins, straight up.
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