Author Topic: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations  (Read 8878 times)

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Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2016, 09:43:50 PM »

Offline chambers

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Not sure I buy this one but who knows.  Houston and Denver have a deal pending where Houston's 2016 pick goes to Denver if it is 15-30 (1-14 protected).  If not conveyed, it turns into some second round pick.  So Houston will likely keep the pick if they dump Howard (they are currently slotted for the 13th pick).  I don't see Houston taking on two more 2016 picks.  So maybe it would have to be something more like DAL 2016 and BOS 2018.

I really hope the Celtics don't do this.  I don't want Howard on the books at the max for the next 5 years which is what was quoted here in another thread.  I am not all what worried about giving up the DAL and BOS picks but what is the point of giving up anything?

Maybe we need a 3rd team involved although I can't imagine who.  Philly?  Knicks?

I don't buy this one because Howard isn't re-signing with the Nuggs, and the Nuggs aren't in a position to secure a 30 year old Dwight at this stage of their rebuild.
What does Howard being there do for them for 6 months?
Even if they have his bird rights,  he'd probably choose slightly less money for a better location and to be on a playoff team.

Just not happening IMO.
Posturing from Morey and the Nuggs just trying to set the market a week out from the deadline.
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Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2016, 09:51:39 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Dwight Howard is poison. He's been poison to every team he's played for. He's very good at certain things, but he's probably only half the player he could've been if it wasn't for his poor attitude. He's never led a team to the promised land, and there's no reason to think he'll change his tune now.
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Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2016, 09:53:12 PM »

Offline max215

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Dwight Howard is poison. He's been poison to every team he's played for. He's very good at certain things, but he's probably only half the player he could've been if it wasn't for his poor attitude. He's never led a team to the promised land, and there's no reason to think he'll change his tune now.

He carried a pretty crappy Magic team to the Finals.
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Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2016, 09:58:48 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Dwight Howard is poison. He's been poison to every team he's played for. He's very good at certain things, but he's probably only half the player he could've been if it wasn't for his poor attitude. He's never led a team to the promised land, and there's no reason to think he'll change his tune now.

He carried a pretty crappy Magic team to the Finals.

That's a very good point. 

He also transformed the Rockets from nobody to somebody.  They were pretty crap before Howard came over and nobody took them very seriously.  Last year they made quite a bit of noise in the playoffs.

In fact  if you think about it, other than the Lakers superteam (which was a disaster) Howard really hasn't played on any bad teams.  All of his Orlando teams were competitive, and the Rockets have been competitive pretty much the whole time he's been there.

Hard to argue with that.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2016, 10:04:41 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Dwight Howard is poison. He's been poison to every team he's played for. He's very good at certain things, but he's probably only half the player he could've been if it wasn't for his poor attitude. He's never led a team to the promised land, and there's no reason to think he'll change his tune now.

I may be wrong because I haven't been paying attention to him in years, but Howard seems to have calmed down a LOT since coming to Houston.

I mean, back in the Magic / Lakers days you didn't HAVE to pay attention in order to hear stuff about Howard constantly.  He did such stupid stuff that he just made his way in to the news on a weekly basis.  It's not like that now, and I've barely heard a single negative thing about Howard the last couple of years.

Hard to believe, but I think he's grown up a lot. 

I don't believe he's half the player he was either.  Looking at his statistical production, he's still quite a beast by any other standards.  14 and 11 with elite defense is pretty impressive for an NBA big man - that's pretty close to DeAndre Jordan territory, and he's a VERY highly sought after guy these days.

The true value in Howard isn't what he can do on a nightly basis - though that is important.  The true value is what he can potentially do come the playoffs.  Howard even now, can still be downright dominant in stretches.  He still has the potential to put up 30 point games, 20 rebounds games, 5 block games.  All it takes is for him to have one of those nights in one or two crucial playoff game, and that could be the difference between making the finals or being a second round out.

It's also important to note that Howard is playing behind one of THE highest volume shooters in the NBA in James Harden, and that's reduced his role in a huge way offensively.  He'd get more touches in Boston (Thomas isn't James Harden),and I still firmly believe that Howards scoring numbers would jump back up to at least around 16 a night as a Celtic.  I think 16/12/2 is not outside the realm of possibility - maybe even more than that.   

Howards ability to draw instant double teams on one end of the court, and dominate the paint on the end, would completely change the dynamic of this team.  We'd have almost no flaws with him plugging up the middle - we'd be very, very hard to beat. 

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2016, 10:08:20 PM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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Howard on a two month rental wouldn't be that bad. He's VERY much a follower, not a leader, and if were not giving up any of our core I think he would fall in line.

That said, unless he's signing a short-term deal, Idk if I'd want to resign him.
He's certainly not a FA draw. He's very unpopular amongst players. IT is VERY popular amongst other players, so I think Howard would hamper our efforts on that front.

Still, if your not giving up any major assets for him, it may be worth the gamble. If all goes right, the IT/Howard P&R would be devastating and swapping out someone like Sully or Jerebko for him could push us towards being a real challenge for the Cavs in the ECF. Were always talking about how Danny can't use all these assets going forward, and consolidating them HAS to happen in some shape or form. If we can use Lee, Sully and a non-Brooklyn 1st (plus maybe the MIN pick) for a Howard rental that gives us a chance to make a deep playoff run it might be worth it. We have so many decent picks, we have the flexibility to do something like this. Even if it doesn't work out, we would've had to consolidate some picks/expirings (or RFA's) anyway.

Horford is still a MUCH better fit for this team though. He's the guy I'd want for the same kind of deal.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2016, 10:09:10 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/here-s-what-the-trade-market-for-dwight-howard-looks-like-011422278.html


Unsurprisingly, Marks suggests the Celtics are the best trade partner. Here's his hypothetical deal:

Howard and Montrezl Harrell for Lee, Jerebko, 2016 Dallas First, 2016 Boston First

This is the exact sort of deal I would be okay with for Howard. Minimal risk, high reward (Harrell would be an awesome throw in too).

Would do that in a heartbeat - sign me up. 

it feels like boston is the "best trade partner" for every player out there.

To be honest, in a lot of cases Boston probably is.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2016, 10:10:55 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Howard on a two month rental wouldn't be that bad. He's VERY much a follower, not a leader, and if were not giving up any of our core I think he would fall in line.

That said, unless he's signing a short-term deal, Idk if I'd want to resign him.
He's certainly not a FA draw. He's very unpopular amongst players. IT is VERY popular amongst other players, so I think Howard would hamper our efforts on that front.

Still, if your not giving up any major assets for him, it may be worth the gamble. If all goes right, the IT/Howard P&R would be devastating and swapping out someone like Sully or Jerebko for him could push us towards being a real challenge for the Cavs in the ECF. Were always talking about how Danny can't use all these assets going forward, and consolidating them HAS to happen in some shape or form. If we can use Lee, Sully and a non-Brooklyn 1st (plus maybe the MIN pick) for a Howard rental that gives us a chance to make a deep playoff run it might be worth it. We have so many decent picks, we have the flexibility to do something like this. Even if it doesn't work out, we would've had to consolidate some picks/expirings (or RFA's) anyway.

Horford is still a MUCH better fit for this team though. He's the guy I'd want for the same kind of deal.

No way I would take Horford over Howard for the same deal - I think Howard is a much better for for this team.  He fills a number of desperate needs, while Horford doesn't really fill any (and is just an upgrade on what we already have). 

Howard is IMHO a significantly better player than Horford, and would have significantly more positive impact on this team.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2016, 10:14:50 PM »

Offline tomrod

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I would not trade anything of value for a rental. I don't think we win a championship with Howard, maybe we push Cleveland to 7 games. But ultimately it rests on wether he would sign a proper deal with the team.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2016, 10:32:27 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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Certainly wouldn't part with a Brooklyn pick or core player for either a Horford or Howard rental.  I'd even be a little reluctant to give up Jerebko because I value his ability to stretch the floor.  Not sure Harrel would be a good fit.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2016, 10:33:20 PM »

Offline number_n9ne

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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/here-s-what-the-trade-market-for-dwight-howard-looks-like-011422278.html


Unsurprisingly, Marks suggests the Celtics are the best trade partner. Here's his hypothetical deal:

Howard and Montrezl Harrell for Lee, Jerebko, 2016 Dallas First, 2016 Boston First

This is the exact sort of deal I would be okay with for Howard. Minimal risk, high reward (Harrell would be an awesome throw in too).

I'd do this in a heartbeat. That is nothing to get a big name on the team. And we add the BKN pick this summer? Get it.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2016, 10:34:09 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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Certainly wouldn't part with a Brooklyn pick or core player for either a Horford or Howard rental.  I'd even be a little reluctant to give up Jerebko because I value his ability to stretch the floor.  Not sure Harrel would be a good fit.

oh come on can c's fans be a little realistic? won't give up jerebko for Howard or Horford? that's silly

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2016, 10:35:45 PM »

Offline manl_lui

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o how Howard has fallen to be only traded for an aging player (Lee), a bench player (Jerebko) and two mid teen to early 20s first rounder...back in 2009-2012, Howard would command at least a star back

I'm fine with it though =)

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2016, 10:39:15 PM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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Howard on a two month rental wouldn't be that bad. He's VERY much a follower, not a leader, and if were not giving up any of our core I think he would fall in line.

That said, unless he's signing a short-term deal, Idk if I'd want to resign him.
He's certainly not a FA draw. He's very unpopular amongst players. IT is VERY popular amongst other players, so I think Howard would hamper our efforts on that front.

Still, if your not giving up any major assets for him, it may be worth the gamble. If all goes right, the IT/Howard P&R would be devastating and swapping out someone like Sully or Jerebko for him could push us towards being a real challenge for the Cavs in the ECF. Were always talking about how Danny can't use all these assets going forward, and consolidating them HAS to happen in some shape or form. If we can use Lee, Sully and a non-Brooklyn 1st (plus maybe the MIN pick) for a Howard rental that gives us a chance to make a deep playoff run it might be worth it. We have so many decent picks, we have the flexibility to do something like this. Even if it doesn't work out, we would've had to consolidate some picks/expirings (or RFA's) anyway.

Horford is still a MUCH better fit for this team though. He's the guy I'd want for the same kind of deal.

No way I would take Horford over Howard for the same deal - I think Howard is a much better for for this team.  He fills a number of desperate needs, while Horford doesn't really fill any (and is just an upgrade on what we already have). 

Howard is IMHO a significantly better player than Horford, and would have significantly more positive impact on this team.

I can totally understand that. I see it, Howard has elite defensive capabilities. If you just plug him into Amir's spot you might have the top defense in the league. That could just be miserable for a lot of teams to play against. Plus, not only would the IT/Howard P&R be really hard to stop but if you surround them with Bradley, Crowder and Kelly (or Jerebko and Smart for that matter) you might have enough shooting to make that line-up VERY difficult on both ends of the floor. Certainly could make us take the next step up if all went perfectly. I think him and KO could make a really good pairing. But Still, a lot of players really hate him, both teammates and opponents. He's gotten better but still has his fair share of immature antics and does some really stupid things on/off court. Doesn't really fit the mold of the culture we've been so successful building here.

Horford has none of those concerns though, and while we may not be quite as good on D, on the boards or as a roll man than Dwight, he still does all of those things at a high level. He'd get some more rebounds playing next to guys like Kelly and Jerebko than he does next to Millsap and Splitter. Plus, he's not a liability in crunch time, can step out past then 3 point line and most importantly is an excellent passer. Having bigs who can pass is key to a lot of CBS' offense. He's also a very good P&R defender and is more than adequate protecting the rim (better than Amir, who's pretty decent). High IQ.

Add in that I'd probably be much more inclined to re-sign Horford going forward than I would Howard and I'd just much rather go that route. Also, if a Howard trade went horribly wrong (think Rondo in Dallas), he could possibly opt in, so we'd be stuck and hampered by paying him another 20$M after a bad experience. Totally understand why Some might think Dwight was the better fit though. Lot can happen after the deadline, so if one of the deals happen we could be totally wrong.

But I think the idea of combining a small handful of medium assets (which we have just a huge glut of) into a guy who's expiring like Horford or Howard and trying to accelerate this impressive playoff push while consolidating some of our dearth of assets, I can get behind that. I like to think our team can handle losing Lee and Sully and stay the same. Even if it was Howard coming in.

Re: Bobby Marks (via the Vertical) on Potential Howard Destinations
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2016, 10:42:32 PM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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EDIT: double post