Author Topic: Forget Horford or Howard...It's Harden  (Read 13310 times)

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Re: Forget Horford or Howard...It's Harden
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2016, 12:30:31 PM »

Online Donoghus

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To play this semantics game, Harden is a swingman, not a combo guard.

My two cents.


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Re: Forget Horford or Howard...It's Harden
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2016, 12:36:15 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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To play this semantics game, Harden is a swingman, not a combo guard.

My two cents.
Swingman would be best

Re: Forget Horford or Howard...It's Harden
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2016, 12:42:59 PM »

Offline Who

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I go for "playmaking wing". Nice way to lump all those guys together.

Re: Forget Horford or Howard...It's Harden
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2016, 12:44:20 PM »

Offline mgent

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Am I the only one that threw up a little reading this trade suggestion?

No, lol.

That said, he's probably the 3rd best point forward at this point behind LeBron and Green.  If only he could stop being non-existent on defense and become less streaky/more efficient on offense.

Harden is not a forward.

Psh, whatever.

Learn the NBA and then re-read my statement.
Harden is a shooting guard, not a small forward, and therefore can not be a point forward. If anything, he is a combo guard.

You guys are ignoring the purpose/point of my post, and nitpicking semantics that have nothing to do with it (aka wasting both of our time).

He's listed at the same height as Oscar Robertson.  Look at him.  He's not just long, he's heavy.  He's listed at 4 pounds less than Lamar Odom (no reason for that comparison, it's just what showed up on Google when I looked up Harden's weight).  He's listed at 16 pounds more than Ariza who's currently playing SF for the Rockets.

I'd assume most people who know the NBA would classify him as a swingman.  Who wouldn't put him in the same category as Evan Turner?

A combo guard is like Bradley, Bayless, Terry, Eric Bledsoe, Monta Ellis, Lou Williams....

Turner has been a SG for the Celtics these past 2 years according the basketball-reference.  Would you guys be trying to correct me if I referred to Turner as a point forward (which many do)?

I understand if you guys just feel the need to disagree with someone and try to prove them wrong, but you're extremely grasping here.
Guys are just busting you on point foward its not a big thing. You slotted him at SG because you said playing with Smart and Crowder. He is also currently a SG for Rockets. So combo guard is what he would be by definition for either team. Not a point foward. It's a lost cause to argue it. It's okay to say, yes combo guard. It's all the same thing anyways. A non- PG ball handler and distributor.

I never mentioned Smart or Crowder (and isn't Jae a SF?).  I compared Harden to LeBron and Green.  Nor did I slot him at SG.  I know he plays SG, but I certainly think he can play SF, and I think he probably is playing the 3 close to half the time he's on the court even though he doesn't start there (given the amount of minutes Beverly, Lawson, Thornton, and Terry combine for).

Regardless, I'm reserving the right to refer to swingmen as point forwards (Turner, Oscar Robertson, etc.)  When Magic played SG, he was still a point forward.  When Iguodala played SG in Philly he was easily a point forward.  This can go on and on...

If you say, "It's a lost cause to argue," I think you're wrong, but I'll agree to disagree.  I'll keep calling Harden a swingman, and you guys can keep disagreeing and correcting me.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Forget Horford or Howard...It's Harden
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2016, 12:46:14 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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James Harden is like an old wooden boat.

I know people who own old wooden boats, and I don't mean the kinds that have been neglected for years and are in disrepair, but the nice ones, that have been fully restored.

And when you see those things on the water, oh man they are beautiful. They just glide, friction-less, timeless.

But behind the scenes, they take a mind-numbing amount of work to keep up. Constant upkeep, and each year every antique wooden boat owner has to figure out whether or not this will be the year that the headaches and the pain in the butt upkeep finally outweighs the benefit of having that wooden boat.

James Harden is like an old wooden boat. And I hope the Celtics don't decide to bring his mess aboard.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Forget Horford or Howard...It's Harden
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2016, 12:50:19 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Other than the beard, I don't know what is not to like about Harden.  Seems like just what we need; anchor scorer who will demand defensive attention and open things up for other players.  26 years old, on a good contract.  I think we can make up for his defense assuming he plays with Smart, Crowder, Sullinger, and maybe Mickey or Zeller?

I am not holding my breath but boy, I would love this.


I've never been a fan.  I do like the beard though.

Poor defender, high usage, low efficiency.

For people who are down on Harden because of defense, who would you rather have as your primary offensive scoring star player?  LeBron?  OK, Carmelo?, Curry? Durant?, that is 4.  How about Chris Paul?  Harden is younger than all of these guys.  Would you rather have Leonard or Butler?  What about Westbrook?  It seems like a pretty short list of players that would potentially be better than Harden most or all of which we would never have a chance to get or don't play any better defense anyway.

I think if Houston or the league in general is down on Harden, let's get him.  No player is perfect.

Re: Forget Horford or Howard...It's Harden
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2016, 12:51:09 PM »

Offline mgent

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I go for "playmaking wing". Nice way to lump all those guys together.

Agree, I think wing and swingman are synonymous.

I also think there's at least a distinction between "[playmaking] wing" and "combo guard."

I don't think wings are "expected" to have playmaking skills as much as combo guards are expected to have them (or other skills that make up for a lack of playmaking).
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Forget Horford or Howard...It's Harden
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2016, 12:52:53 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Am I the only one that threw up a little reading this trade suggestion?

No, lol.

That said, he's probably the 3rd best point forward at this point behind LeBron and Green.  If only he could stop being non-existent on defense and become less streaky/more efficient on offense.

Harden is not a forward.

Psh, whatever.

Learn the NBA and then re-read my statement.
Harden is a shooting guard, not a small forward, and therefore can not be a point forward. If anything, he is a combo guard.

You guys are ignoring the purpose/point of my post, and nitpicking semantics that have nothing to do with it (aka wasting both of our time).

He's listed at the same height as Oscar Robertson.  Look at him.  He's not just long, he's heavy.  He's listed at 4 pounds less than Lamar Odom (no reason for that comparison, it's just what showed up on Google when I looked up Harden's weight).  He's listed at 16 pounds more than Ariza who's currently playing SF for the Rockets.

I'd assume most people who know the NBA would classify him as a swingman.  Who wouldn't put him in the same category as Evan Turner?

A combo guard is like Bradley, Bayless, Terry, Eric Bledsoe, Monta Ellis, Lou Williams....

Turner has been a SG for the Celtics these past 2 years according the basketball-reference.  Would you guys be trying to correct me if I referred to Turner as a point forward (which many do)?

I understand if you guys just feel the need to disagree with someone and try to prove them wrong, but you're extremely grasping here.
Guys are just busting you on point foward its not a big thing. You slotted him at SG because you said playing with Smart and Crowder. He is also currently a SG for Rockets. So combo guard is what he would be by definition for either team. Not a point foward. It's a lost cause to argue it. It's okay to say, yes combo guard. It's all the same thing anyways. A non- PG ball handler and distributor.

I never mentioned Smart or Crowder (and isn't Jae a SF?).  I compared Harden to LeBron and Green.  Nor did I slot him at SG.  I know he plays SG, but I certainly think he can play SF, and I think he probably is playing the 3 close to half the time he's on the court even though he doesn't start there (given the amount of minutes Beverly, Lawson, Thornton, and Terry combine for).

Regardless, I'm reserving the right to refer to swingmen as point forwards (Turner, Oscar Robertson, etc.)  When Magic played SG, he was still a point forward.  When Iguodala played SG in Philly he was easily a point forward.  This can go on and on...

If you say, "It's a lost cause to argue," I think you're wrong, but I'll agree to disagree.  I'll keep calling Harden a swingman, and you guys can keep disagreeing and correcting me.
I miss wrote and edited. I can say when i was wrong. 8) I agree to the swingman. But not as a foward being cause. Which was your reason to call him swingman. Swingman just plays multiple positions. He can spot play foward not start. His flexibility is combo guard but in playing some light foward it is more than 2 positions so he then becomes a swingman. Smart and Turner are probably swingmen too.

Re: Forget Horford or Howard...It's Harden
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2016, 12:53:17 PM »

Online Donoghus

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I go for "playmaking wing". Nice way to lump all those guys together.

Agree, I think wing and swingman are synonymous.

I also think there's at least a distinction between "[playmaking] wing" and "combo guard."

I don't think wings are "expected" to have playmaking skills as much as combo guards are expected to have them (or other skills that make up for a lack of playmaking).

I agree with this.  When I picture a combo guard, its someone like Monta Ellis or Iverson.  Playmaking Wing/Swingman?  Paul Pierce.


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Re: Forget Horford or Howard...It's Harden
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2016, 12:54:54 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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James Harden is like an old wooden boat.

I know people who own old wooden boats, and I don't mean the kinds that have been neglected for years and are in disrepair, but the nice ones, that have been fully restored.

And when you see those things on the water, oh man they are beautiful. They just glide, friction-less, timeless.

But behind the scenes, they take a mind-numbing amount of work to keep up. Constant upkeep, and each year every antique wooden boat owner has to figure out whether or not this will be the year that the headaches and the pain in the butt upkeep finally outweighs the benefit of having that wooden boat.

James Harden is like an old wooden boat. And I hope the Celtics don't decide to bring his mess aboard.

TP. 

. . . a wooden boat? . . . Wow!!!!  That's some fancy poetic stuff right there.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Forget Horford or Howard...It's Harden
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2016, 12:55:45 PM »

Offline mgent

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To play this semantics game, Harden is a swingman, not a combo guard.

My two cents.
Swingman would be best

So no longer a "combo guard by definition?"  Which is a confusing assertion because now you also have to prove Harden plays significant time at the 1 (as in, the shortest guy on the floor).
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Forget Horford or Howard...It's Harden
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2016, 12:57:11 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I go for "playmaking wing". Nice way to lump all those guys together.

I like that the best.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Forget Horford or Howard...It's Harden
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2016, 12:59:19 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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James Harden is like an old wooden boat.

I know people who own old wooden boats, and I don't mean the kinds that have been neglected for years and are in disrepair, but the nice ones, that have been fully restored.

And when you see those things on the water, oh man they are beautiful. They just glide, friction-less, timeless.

But behind the scenes, they take a mind-numbing amount of work to keep up. Constant upkeep, and each year every antique wooden boat owner has to figure out whether or not this will be the year that the headaches and the pain in the butt upkeep finally outweighs the benefit of having that wooden boat.

James Harden is like an old wooden boat. And I hope the Celtics don't decide to bring his mess aboard.
the only wooden boat I ever had was a popsicle stick I watched float down the street in the rain until it went down the sewer drain
 :'(

Re: Forget Horford or Howard...It's Harden
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2016, 01:03:20 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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To play this semantics game, Harden is a swingman, not a combo guard.

My two cents.
Swingman would be best

So no longer a "combo guard by definition?"  Which is a confusing assertion because now you also have to prove Harden plays significant time at the 1 (as in, the shortest guy on the floor).

Swingman plays more than 2 postions. Harden can play PG and SG without being over matched he can play spot minutes at SF. Playing SF isn't enough to be a swingman it's 3 positions. He can be swung to 3 positions. Which is the point I was making that makes him a swing man. Today's swingman is confused with SG/SF capable players. Swingman is for guys that could play 3 spots. So C/PF/SF is a swingman. PG/SG/SF is a swingman. It's a special player

Re: Forget Horford or Howard...It's Harden
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2016, 01:10:00 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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James Harden is like an old wooden boat.

I know people who own old wooden boats, and I don't mean the kinds that have been neglected for years and are in disrepair, but the nice ones, that have been fully restored.

And when you see those things on the water, oh man they are beautiful. They just glide, friction-less, timeless.

But behind the scenes, they take a mind-numbing amount of work to keep up. Constant upkeep, and each year every antique wooden boat owner has to figure out whether or not this will be the year that the headaches and the pain in the butt upkeep finally outweighs the benefit of having that wooden boat.

James Harden is like an old wooden boat. And I hope the Celtics don't decide to bring his mess aboard.
the only wooden boat I ever had was a popsicle stick I watched float down the street in the rain until it went down the sewer drain
 :'(

Brilliant!! 

Yours seems more like James Young; we can have high hopes for its journey for a while if we really use our imagination.  But in the end, we all know where it's destined to end up.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson