Author Topic: Big names rarely move. Realistic trade with MIN  (Read 1934 times)

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Big names rarely move. Realistic trade with MIN
« on: February 11, 2016, 12:57:00 AM »

Offline SRaposa33

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http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zldnknv

Celtics get:
                 Gorgui Dieng - 6'11", 241, 26 yr.  contract (2yr/1.5M)
                 Shabazz Muhammad - 6'6", 223, 23 yr.  contract (2yr/2M)
                 Tayshawn Prince - (buyout, $ necessary to execute trade)

Timberwolves get:
                 Kelly Olynyk
                 Jordan Mickey
                 Bos 2016 1st round pick

Why Celtics do it:
Dieng provides much-needed upgrade in paint on both ends. Muhammad adds a capable offensive creator and provides Turner insurance if we can't re-sign him. Both players are young, hungry, highly-skilled, and on excellent contracts. Prince can be bought out.
Olynyk has played his best ball not long ago and still has promise but Jerebko provides a lot of the same "tools". Nothing against Mickey either we just have plenty of kids and picks and could use more "ready" assets.

Why Timberwolves do it:
Olynyk gives them something different. Minnesota is the second-worst three-point shooting team in the league and Kelly can help them there. Pekovic and his contract, ditto for Rubio and K.Martin, aren't going anywhere, so you have to pencil them in with Towns, Wiggins, and LaVine in some fashion. Dieng and Muhammad remain somewhat redundant looking forward, Mickey may be a younger, cheaper clone, and they get another pick.

Thoughts?

Re: Big names rarely move. Realistic trade with MIN
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2016, 01:01:32 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I really dont like it at all.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Big names rarely move. Realistic trade with MIN
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2016, 01:29:28 AM »

Offline SRaposa33

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Why not?

Re: Big names rarely move. Realistic trade with MIN
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2016, 01:30:54 AM »

Offline alldaboston

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I'd rather not give up Mickey
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: Big names rarely move. Realistic trade with MIN
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2016, 02:12:32 AM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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I don't think we have to give up Mickey. If you look at it from Minnys perspective, they are losing their 6th man in Shabazz and their very good backup center/starting power forward in Dieng. Trading Prince is actually a plus, as it clears up more minutes for their young guns. So KO replaces Dieng in their rotation, and is arguably a better fit next to Towns, given Minny lacks shooting and Towns can protect the rim, covering for KO. Losing Shabazz hurts, but he isn't a longterm starter for them anyway, and taking a flyer on a guy like Hunter or Young isn't that big of a downgrade. And if Young (or Hunter) doesn't work out, they will still have a mid first to try to pick up a rotation level wing to replace Shabazz.

Shabazz, Dieng, Prince
KO, Young, BOS 16 1st

Would this be better?
CB Mock Deadline - Minnesota Timberwolves
Kemba Walker / Tyus Jones / Aaron Brooks
Jimmy Butler / Jamal Crawford / Treveon Graham
Rodney Hood / Nic Batum / Marcus Georges Hunt
Taj Gibson / Nemanja Bjelica / Jonas Jerebko
KAT / Derrick Favors / Cole Aldrich
Picks - 2018 CHA 1st (Lotto protected), none out

Re: Big names rarely move. Realistic trade with MIN
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2016, 02:50:04 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I don't think we have to give up Mickey. If you look at it from Minnys perspective, they are losing their 6th man in Shabazz and their very good backup center/starting power forward in Dieng. Trading Prince is actually a plus, as it clears up more minutes for their young guns. So KO replaces Dieng in their rotation, and is arguably a better fit next to Towns, given Minny lacks shooting and Towns can protect the rim, covering for KO. Losing Shabazz hurts, but he isn't a longterm starter for them anyway, and taking a flyer on a guy like Hunter or Young isn't that big of a downgrade. And if Young (or Hunter) doesn't work out, they will still have a mid first to try to pick up a rotation level wing to replace Shabazz.

Shabazz, Dieng, Prince
KO, Young, BOS 16 1st

Would this be better?
I dont get why we do it. Why do we give up real assets for 2 really mediocre players.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Big names rarely move. Realistic trade with MIN
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2016, 03:17:44 AM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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I don't think we have to give up Mickey. If you look at it from Minnys perspective, they are losing their 6th man in Shabazz and their very good backup center/starting power forward in Dieng. Trading Prince is actually a plus, as it clears up more minutes for their young guns. So KO replaces Dieng in their rotation, and is arguably a better fit next to Towns, given Minny lacks shooting and Towns can protect the rim, covering for KO. Losing Shabazz hurts, but he isn't a longterm starter for them anyway, and taking a flyer on a guy like Hunter or Young isn't that big of a downgrade. And if Young (or Hunter) doesn't work out, they will still have a mid first to try to pick up a rotation level wing to replace Shabazz.

Shabazz, Dieng, Prince
KO, Young, BOS 16 1st

Would this be better?
I dont get why we do it. Why do we give up real assets for 2 really mediocre players.
Why are you counting Young and our BOS 1st as "real assets" over Shabazz and Dieng? Because Young has done absolutely nothing so far and right now our 1st would be the 24th pick in the draft. A late first. KO is probably worth the most out of anything in this deal, but Shabazz and Dieng are clearly worth the most after him.
CB Mock Deadline - Minnesota Timberwolves
Kemba Walker / Tyus Jones / Aaron Brooks
Jimmy Butler / Jamal Crawford / Treveon Graham
Rodney Hood / Nic Batum / Marcus Georges Hunt
Taj Gibson / Nemanja Bjelica / Jonas Jerebko
KAT / Derrick Favors / Cole Aldrich
Picks - 2018 CHA 1st (Lotto protected), none out

Re: Big names rarely move. Realistic trade with MIN
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2016, 03:35:59 AM »

Offline Irish Stew

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My gut feeling is that Minnesota would say no but it would depend on their evaluation of Mickey's Development League tape and any live scouting they have done of him. This is not an unfair trade but does contain more risk for Minn than us.

Re: Big names rarely move. Realistic trade with MIN
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2016, 04:07:00 AM »

Offline SRaposa33

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I don't think we have to give up Mickey. If you look at it from Minnys perspective, they are losing their 6th man in Shabazz and their very good backup center/starting power forward in Dieng. Trading Prince is actually a plus, as it clears up more minutes for their young guns. So KO replaces Dieng in their rotation, and is arguably a better fit next to Towns, given Minny lacks shooting and Towns can protect the rim, covering for KO. Losing Shabazz hurts, but he isn't a longterm starter for them anyway, and taking a flyer on a guy like Hunter or Young isn't that big of a downgrade. And if Young (or Hunter) doesn't work out, they will still have a mid first to try to pick up a rotation level wing to replace Shabazz.

Shabazz, Dieng, Prince
KO, Young, BOS 16 1st

Would this be better?
I dont get why we do it. Why do we give up real assets for 2 really mediocre players.

Dieng is by no means a "mediocre" player. He has flaws, as do most NBA guys outside of any particular team's top 3 or 4, as his offensive spot-up game is weak (and ugly), but he can finish around the rim and circle, defend, and rebound. He's long and athletic and extremely active. I wonder if you've seen him play more than a clip here or there. I would call him "solid...with upside". He's the type of player you love to have on your team. I know plenty of people who insisted (and some who miraculously continue to insist) that Crowder was/is "mediocre". Rrrrright. Dieng still has untapped potential and his ability to flush and finish and be active and disruptive on D fits perfectly with the Celtics' attitude, style and needs.

Muhammad can score and he does so in an aggressive fashion, attacking the rim relentlessly at his best. He rebounds well for a guard and is tall, long, and rangy. His biggest flaw is probably his effort and energy level but I think that could be boosted in a positive, winning situation. Not to mention he's dirt cheap (just like Dieng) and only 23 still!

The assets going away here are middling, of which we have plenty on this roster.

Re: Big names rarely move. Realistic trade with MIN
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2016, 04:08:49 AM »

Offline walker834

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Dieng would be a decent option. I wouldnt give up Kelly for him though. Or Mickey.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 04:18:36 AM by walker834 »

Re: Big names rarely move. Realistic trade with MIN
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2016, 04:16:51 AM »

Offline SRaposa33

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My gut feeling is that Minnesota would say no but it would depend on their evaluation of Mickey's Development League tape and any live scouting they have done of him. This is not an unfair trade but does contain more risk for Minn than us.

You might be right. Idk, they have zero shooting and Olynyk and Towns could be a really interesting combo. Wiggins' size and strength could help cover up Kelly's weak D too. Plus a fresh pick to fill a hole or help maneuver up from their own. ??

Re: Big names rarely move. Realistic trade with MIN
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2016, 04:25:25 AM »

Offline SRaposa33

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Dieng would be a decent option. I wouldnt give up Kelly for him though.

Kelly has gotten better this year. His three-point shot (when he's set) and his free-throw shooting (when he doesn't spazz) are particularly valuable and beyond that I would argue his biggest improvement has been his "toughness" (for him) and willingness to drive and run the floor, at least on the nights when he's into those things.

Still, what's his ultimate upside for you?

I see him as a guy who's always going to be slow and goofy. Feeble in the paint. Skilled for sure, but not someone I'd be excited to see on the floor in big moments. Even the threes he hits, which are beyond respectable, for this team to be where I hope, they need a better player taking those shots when they matter. Dieng would at least be a player you'd be excited to see out there (I presume) making life harder on opposing bigs who have become accustomed to feasting on the C's.

Re: Big names rarely move. Realistic trade with MIN
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2016, 04:35:06 AM »

Offline walker834

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Kelly is hard to figure out.  I think his upside is really good. Sometimes he looks like it.  Other times he comes back down to reality and looks like just another big man. I think talentwise it's there but his mindset isn't which might keep him from becoming anything but an average player.  I still wouldn't trade him at this point though.

He had a stretch there where he looked like he was turning the corner then came back down to reality.  Sully does this too.  Maybe it's just who they are.  But each year they seem to improve in areas.

I think right now they are above average roleplayers borderline starting players. They are anywhere from the 5th to the 8th best player on a really good team which is what they are  right now.  Kelly has more upside than that imo.

Sully has too many limitations.  Kelly imo could be the 2nd or 3rd best player on a really good team if he really wanted it.  Both KO and Sully's upside are pretty similar though for different reasons. They are also both similar in general for different reasons.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 04:52:24 AM by walker834 »

Re: Big names rarely move. Realistic trade with MIN
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2016, 06:44:40 AM »

Offline ssspence

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Dieng clicking with KAT. Olynyk developing nicely under Brad. Neither team has a good reason to trade these players. It's not realistic.
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Big names rarely move. Realistic trade with MIN
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2016, 07:23:18 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Upside means room to grow, I do not see much of that in Sully.  His defensive effort has been a pleasant surprise this season.

That being said, he had a monster game last night.