Mannix: Al Horford is a legitimate possibility for the Celtics.

[cltc5]

 

[guava_wrench]

Your not going to get a legit Big by offering up garbage picks and role players.

You want to win games or Playoff Series?
Your 2 best assets are the 16 Brooklyn #1 and Olynyk. I would not Deal both for Horford unless there is an extension in place and the Hawks add another Player you might be able to flip.

Outside of Simmons, the draft is again a developmental draft. How many years you going to wait for a Player to develop if he ever does.

Last 10 #1 Overall piks, name a Super Star? Up until Rose got hurt, there is none..

How many playoff series' has Horford won in his career, exactly?

Horford is a legit big that fills a desperate need on a well Coached Team.
You find a Shooter at the 3 and a defensive minded power forward you win the East..

Huh? Did you NBA last season? The Hawks were incredibly well coached.

[cltc5]

Yea

[guava_wrench]

Your not going to get a legit Big by offering up garbage picks and role players.

You want to win games or Playoff Series?
Your 2 best assets are the 16 Brooklyn #1 and Olynyk. I would not Deal both for Horford unless there is an extension in place and the Hawks add another Player you might be able to flip.

Outside of Simmons, the draft is again a developmental draft. How many years you going to wait for a Player to develop if he ever does.

Last 10 #1 Overall piks, name a Super Star? Up until Rose got hurt, there is none..

Where did you come up with that?

Blake Griffin? Anthony Davis?

John Wall and Kyrie Irving can still end up make some all-NBA first teams.

Towns and Wiggins are too early on in their careers for us to have any idea.

But, of course, not all the the most recent #1 can be top 5 players because there are more than 5 of them.

The reality is that of the last 8 #1s, Bennett is the only disappointment at the moment -- and that was considered a reach pick in a draft with no superstars. If you remember, everyone was looking forward to the next year's draft in 2013.

[LooseCannon]

Al Horford was always the best player on those old Hawks teams and was held back by a couple of mediocrities named Joe Johnson and Josh Smith, who got undeserved attention due to scoring more points.

In a trade for Horford, the Celtics should be willing to give up value that would be an overpay if he turns out to be a rental and leaves after the season and a bargain if a few months with Brad Stevens and a solid playoff run leads to Horford re-signing when he might have gone elsewhere if Ainge had waited until July to court him as a free agent.

[crimson_stallion]

Your not going to get a legit Big by offering up garbage picks and role players.

You want to win games or Playoff Series?
Your 2 best assets are the 16 Brooklyn #1 and Olynyk. I would not Deal both for Horford unless there is an extension in place and the Hawks add another Player you might be able to flip.

Outside of Simmons, the draft is again a developmental draft. How many years you going to wait for a Player to develop if he ever does.

Last 10 #1 Overall piks, name a Super Star? Up until Rose got hurt, there is none..

How many playoff series' has Horford won in his career, exactly?

Horford is a legit big that fills a desperate need on a well Coached Team.
You find a Shooter at the 3 and a defensive minded power forward you win the East..

What desperate need do we have that Horford fill for us?

The way I see it we have three major needs:

1) A great rebounder (though we kinda have in Sully)
2) A legit rim protector
3) A go-to scorer to take pressure off Thomas

I don't see Horford as a guy who fills any of those three needs.  In fact he does just about everything EXCEPT those three things.   

He's a good but not great rebounder (no better than Amir really), he's a mediocre rim protector (definitely no better than Amir there) and he's a good but not great scorer (not really a go-to guy). 

Honestly, I don't think Horford fills any desperate needs for this team.  I think he's just an upgrade at things we already have.  Ok yeah he gives us some efficient post scoring which is definitely something we could use, but I wouldn't say it's a "desperate need". 

Horford pretty much is just a rich man's (fitter, more offensively efficient version of) Sully.  At the end of the day, that is pretty much the definition of Al Horford.

We already have a two shooters (Bradley at the 2, and Crowder at the 3) and we already have a defensive minded PF (Amir Johnson).  I do not believe that adding Horford to that wins us the East.  I think it makes us very competitive in the East, but then we already are very competitive in the East.

He's a really nice player, and I think he improves our team for sure.  But I don't think he makes us a contender, personally. 

[crimson_stallion]

Al Horford was always the best player on those old Hawks teams and was held back by a couple of mediocrities named Joe Johnson and Josh Smith, who got undeserved attention due to scoring more points.

In a trade for Horford, the Celtics should be willing to give up value that would be an overpay if he turns out to be a rental and leaves after the season and a bargain if a few months with Brad Stevens and a solid playoff run leads to Horford re-signing when he might have gone elsewhere if Ainge had waited until July to court him as a free agent.

I strongly disagree. 

Josh Smith was every bit as good as Horford at that time.  He was practically a walking triple double and was a borderline elite defensive player. 

He wasn't really a volume scorer either, so no idea where you get impression from myself.  Joe Johnson, ok.  But Josh Smith wasn't exactly known for being a big time scorer.

[Ilikesports17]

Your not going to get a legit Big by offering up garbage picks and role players.

You want to win games or Playoff Series?
Your 2 best assets are the 16 Brooklyn #1 and Olynyk. I would not Deal both for Horford unless there is an extension in place and the Hawks add another Player you might be able to flip.

Outside of Simmons, the draft is again a developmental draft. How many years you going to wait for a Player to develop if he ever does.

Last 10 #1 Overall piks, name a Super Star? Up until Rose got hurt, there is none..

How many playoff series' has Horford won in his career, exactly?

Horford is a legit big that fills a desperate need on a well Coached Team.
You find a Shooter at the 3 and a defensive minded power forward you win the East..

What desperate need do we have that Horford fill for us?

The way I see it we have three major needs:

1) A great rebounder (though we kinda have in Sully)
2) A legit rim protector
3) A go-to scorer to take pressure off Thomas

I don't see Horford as a guy who fills any of those three needs.  In fact he does just about everything EXCEPT those three things.   

He's a good but not great rebounder (no better than Amir really), he's a mediocre rim protector (definitely no better than Amir there) and he's a good but not great scorer (not really a go-to guy). 

Honestly, I don't think Horford fills any desperate needs for this team.  I think he's just an upgrade at things we already have.  Ok yeah he gives us some efficient post scoring which is definitely something we could use, but I wouldn't say it's a "desperate need". 

Horford pretty much is just a rich man's (fitter, more offensively efficient version of) Sully.  At the end of the day, that is pretty much the definition of Al Horford.

We already have a two shooters (Bradley at the 2, and Crowder at the 3) and we already have a defensive minded PF (Amir Johnson).  I do not believe that adding Horford to that wins us the East.  I think it makes us very competitive in the East, but then we already are very competitive in the East.

He's a really nice player, and I think he improves our team for sure.  But I don't think he makes us a contender, personally.

I think you underrate Horford.

[SparzWizard]

As long as it doesn't cost Marcus, Nets pick, or Crowder...

Then I'm in!

This, I agree 100%

Al Horford is a quality NBA big. He would upgrade our rim protection right away and he will fit in with our offense just fine with his passing, shooting and all around offensive game.

If it doesn't cost us our major assets, we need to go for it.

I think he'd be our legit rim protector since the KG/Perkins/O'Neal/Krstic days...

[LooseCannon]

Al Horford was always the best player on those old Hawks teams and was held back by a couple of mediocrities named Joe Johnson and Josh Smith, who got undeserved attention due to scoring more points.

In a trade for Horford, the Celtics should be willing to give up value that would be an overpay if he turns out to be a rental and leaves after the season and a bargain if a few months with Brad Stevens and a solid playoff run leads to Horford re-signing when he might have gone elsewhere if Ainge had waited until July to court him as a free agent.

I strongly disagree. 

Josh Smith was every bit as good as Horford at that time.  He was practically a walking triple double and was a borderline elite defensive player. 

He wasn't really a volume scorer either, so no idea where you get impression from myself.  Joe Johnson, ok.  But Josh Smith wasn't exactly known for being a big time scorer.

Smith was a good defender, but he was such garbage on offense due to his shot selection that he was a liability who completely wiped out his positives on the other side of the ball.  Smith recorded three triple doubles in his career and never averaged a double-double for a season (but came close once).

People who think that Smith was even close to Horford in value are often the sort of people who overrate the ppg column on the stat page where Smith has an advantage over Horford.

I'll take the aging Horford of today over prime Josh Smith or Joe Johnson as an addition to this Celtics team.

[crimson_stallion]

I think you underrate Horford.

I don't.

He's averaging what - 15 points, 7 rebounds and 3 assists per game? 

About 17, 8 and 3.5 Per 36 - about identical to Olynyk's Per 36 numbers. 

1.18 Points Per FGA - pretty inefficient.  Largely because he isn't a huge threat from three, and he's completely incapable of getting to the foul line (13% Free throw rate).

Good defensive player, but not an elite one. 

You see the word 'good' a lot when talking about Horford, because what he is, good.  Not Great, not Elite, just good.  Good at lots of things, but still just good.

As I said, I like him.  I've always liked his game.  But people are talking about him like he's a big star and some major game changer, and i don't see it...not one bit. 

He's the same tier of player as Millsap pretty much.  Really nice complementary players who could put you over the edge if you have a couple of big stars already (he'd be great in OKC), but he'll never be enough to carry a team.

[crimson_stallion]

As long as it doesn't cost Marcus, Nets pick, or Crowder...

Then I'm in!

This, I agree 100%

Al Horford is a quality NBA big. He would upgrade our rim protection right away and he will fit in with our offense just fine with his passing, shooting and all around offensive game.

If it doesn't cost us our major assets, we need to go for it.

I think he'd be our legit rim protector since the KG/Perkins/O'Neal/Krstic days...

Maybe things have changed, but last time I checked Horford had terrible rim protection stats - like worse than Kelly Olynyk.  That was some time last year though, maybe they have changed since.  I've certainly never thought of him as a rim protector though.  He's much more like a "Sully like" defensive player - good post defender who holds his ground well.  Not really a shot blocker, nor much of an intimidator. 

[nostar]

I think the story now is that the Hawks are asking a lot still. I hope Danny waits until their offers get more reasonable and we can get Horford for salary filler, a Young guy and a mid-round 1st. If it's much higher than that I'm not gifting them assets for the honor of paying Horford $130M over 5 years.

I like Al, I think he would fit well here. I'm not giving up 2-3 picks and some young guys to bring him in. There are guys I'd make that push for, but a a 30 year who is going to cost $25M/yr for 5 years isn't on the list. I'd way sooner make a push for Melo who is already under contract for 2 more years at $25M and can fill the obvious end-of-game scoring needs we have.

[Chris22]

Horford is on the way down.
We need a big defensive center.

[Casperian]

Horford is the closest thing I have to a binkie in this league. I would be over the moon if we could add him to this team. That said, he's turning 30, and I'm not sure it's a good idea to pay him the max for 5 years.

So, I guess it depends...on the price.